Labor loves tax

[stui magpie]

^

Clearly the latter.

[David]

I love tax in the sense that I believe that it's essential to the maintenance of a liveable society and that I and all of us benefit directly from where those taxes are directed (healthcare, education, social welfare, old-age pension, public transport, housing and so on). So, no, I don't resent being taxed one bit. So long as taxes are set at appropriate levels to ensure that everyone can pay what they can afford, what's there to complain about?

Tax is not a necessary evil, but a clear social good. That shouldn't be a controversial view, I hope! Would anyone here really trade a lower tax deduction for, say, an American-style healthcare system where a woman gets billed over $10,000 for giving birth in a hospital without insurance? As Joe Biden would put it, "C'mon, man"

To be clear, I'm not surprised that right-wing libertarians and other proponents of small government hate being taxed; that's their ideology, and they're entitled to it! I don't see why the rest of us should moan about it, though. Be thankful that you live in a country where a semi-decent taxation system exists – I know I am.

[stui magpie]

Nup, Tax is a necessary evil. It's how Governments get revenue to provide services and it's their responsibility to use it responsibly, for the social good. They should take no more than they need to and the public service should be no bigger than it needs to be, not bloated and inefficient.

[David]

Government efficiencies can (and should) always be addressed, but that’s not necessarily tied to a higher or lower tax rate. I don’t think we’ve ever reached a point where all areas of public need have been satisfied and additional government spending is superfluous. I think it’s reasonable to assume that across-the-board tax cuts will inevitably lead to important services being underfunded. And if, as Woods of Ypres points out, the system isn’t fair, that should also be corrected.

This is why the negative gearing rort, for instance, drives my generation crazy. We see areas of need, and then we also see wealthy people with multiple properties getting chop-outs that do nothing to aid the economy but only incentivise property hoarding. It’s a tax concession that isn’t needed, and that just increases the burden on the rest of us.

It’s a complicated (and ever-shifting) equation to balance all this, but balance is essential and governments need to be constantly striving for it. Taxing smartly and fairly is key to that.

[stui magpie]

There's nothing fair about the system, there's winners and losers , but overall our system isn't bad. Could be better but could be worse. There's a balance between how much the Goverment(s) should intervene and how far they should stand back. Employing more people in the Public Service (eg, Victoria) doesn't mean more stuff gets done, it can actually have the opposite effect.

Get over the negative gearing "rort", without it there wouldn't be as many rental properties and housing prices wouldn't be more affordable.

Blame Governments, of both colours and both state and federal if you want for basically abandoning public housing for the notion of encouraging middle class home ownership, a script that goes back many decades,

[David]

To get things (somewhat?) back on topic, here's a piece I just saw this afternoon from a couple of people from the Grattan Institute:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/apr/12/australia-is-not-a-high-tax-country-so-why-cant-we-have-a-conversation-about-the-t-word

[stui magpie]

I broke my rule about the Guardian and read that. I'll wash my hands in a minute.

I'm not sure if they're comparing apples with apples there. In many of those countries, the Social Security is higher than the personal income tax component.

How many of those countries pay a generous government (social security) aged pension on retirement? Use France as an example, from what I can figure out, once you turn 65 you get an aged pension, no asset test, based on 50% of your highest average salary. That's baasically a compulsory (and inefficient) superannuation scheme and an ongoing expense to their government that ours doesn't have, because we have employer funded super.

If you ignore the Social Security component and just look at the Personal income tax piece, we are quite above the OECD average.

[What'sinaname]

What?!? a new tax.......

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11959547/Treasurer-Jim-Chalmers-vows-vaping-crackdown-young-users.html

[doriswilgus]

So you think vaping is good for you,do you? You do read some interesting comments in this place,but not interesting in a good way.

[What'sinaname]

[stui magpie]

[doriswilgus]

I think Australian health authorities have a very different view of vaping compared to their British counterparts ^They claim that it’s just trading one form of nicotine addiction for another,and shouldn’t be encouraged in any form.

[think positive]

[stui magpie]

[Woods Of Ypres]

give me a cigarette over a vape any day, at least a cig won't give me wet lung, lipoid pneumonia and god knows what else