Vale / in Memorium
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Jezza 
2023 PREMIERS!
Joined: 06 Sep 2010
Location: Ponsford End
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Great musician!
Vale Chuck Berry.
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Pies4shaw 
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
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Mugwump
Joined: 28 Jul 2007
Location: Between London and Melbourne
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Very important musician, whose songs still resonate. Also convicted paedophile, tax evader, armed robber and videotaper of unsuspecting women in toilets. Other than those minor peccadilloes, he was a great guy. Suitably Publicly honored by Bill Clinton, which seems appropriate. Great songs - just a pity they were not made by a better man.
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luvdids 
Joined: 22 Mar 2008
Location: work
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| Mugwump wrote: | | Very important musician, whose songs still resonate. Also convicted paedophile, tax evader, armed robber and videotaper of unsuspecting women in toilets. Other than those minor peccadilloes, he was a great guy. Suitably Publicly honored by Bill Clinton, which seems appropriate. Great songs - just a pity they were not made by a better man. |
Source?? Pretty big statement with nothing to back it up.
If you're referring to this: http://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/chuck-berry-is-arrested-on-mann-act-charges-in-st-louis-missouri
you might want to change your claim of 'convicted paedophile' to 'convicted of Mann act offence'
Can't find any info about him being an 'armed robber' as stated.
So many great songs & a great legacy, RIP |
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Mugwump
Joined: 28 Jul 2007
Location: Between London and Melbourne
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| luvdids wrote: | | Mugwump wrote: | | Very important musician, whose songs still resonate. Also convicted paedophile, tax evader, armed robber and videotaper of unsuspecting women in toilets. Other than those minor peccadilloes, he was a great guy. Suitably Publicly honored by Bill Clinton, which seems appropriate. Great songs - just a pity they were not made by a better man. |
Source?? Pretty big statement with nothing to back it up.
If you're referring to this: http://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/chuck-berry-is-arrested-on-mann-act-charges-in-st-louis-missouri
you might want to change your claim of 'convicted paedophile' to 'convicted of Mann act offence'
Can't find any info about him being an 'armed robber' as stated.
So many great songs & a great legacy, RIP |
Read the Wikipedia entry, which is well-referenced, and then google the details. The Mann Act required "an immoral purpose", the girl claimed that they had intercourse, she was 14 years old, and the case was tried twice with the same result (I can well believe that the first trial might have been highly prejudiced). You can make it probable paedophile, if that makes you feel any better, but the Mann Act conviction was on those facts, which substantiate a conviction for paedophilia. The other convictions are recorded for the offence directly as written.
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luvdids
Joined: 22 Mar 2008
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| Soooo, not a convicted paedophile then? |
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Mugwump
Joined: 28 Jul 2007
Location: Between London and Melbourne
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Did you read the facts ? What is it about the facts of the conviction that suggests it was not paedophilia to you ? You said I had "nothing to back it up". You might admit now that this was not the case. The armed robbery conviction was in about 1957, I think.
Anyway, it is also a matter of record that videotapes of unsuspecting women on the toilet in his club were found in his house after an employee said that he wired a camera in the Ladies. But he's a rock'n'roll legend and in the modern world that's what matters. What a strange, strange world we have made.
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think positive 
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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much as i really dont like the slagging off of dead people in a remembrance thread, google is your friend, chuck did three terms in jail
1944 aged 18, did three years for armed robbery,
http://biography.yourdictionary.com/chuck-berry
Took up Guitar in Junior High
Born in 1926, Berry didn't take up the guitar until he was in junior high school thirteen years later. With the accompaniment of a friend on guitar, the two youths played a steamy version of Confessin' The Blues which surprised, and pleased, the student audience. The reaction from the crowd prompted Berry to learn some guitar chords from his partner and he was hooked from then on. He spent his teen years developing his chops while working with his father doing carpentry. But before he could graduate from high school, Berry was arrested and convicted of armed robbery and served three years in Algoa (Missouri). A year after his release on October 18, 1947, he was married and working on a family, swearing that he was forever cured of heading down the wrong path again.
1961 same article
Things seemed to be going smoothly until 1961, when Berry was found guilty of violating the Mann Act. Berry was charged with transporting a teenage girl across a state line for immoral purposes. He spent from February 19, 1962 until October 18, 1963 behind bars at the Federal Medical Center in Springfield, Missouri. For years Berry denied this, claiming he was acquitted and never served time. He finally admitted the truth in his autobiography. He used his prison term constructively though, taking courses to complete his high school education and also by penning some of his most notable songs: "Tulane," "No Particular Place To Go," and "Nadine."
Read more at http://biography.yourdictionary.com/chuck-berry#0Df3K8c7QA2MB0Hx.99
seems a bit murky though, not sure i would classify it as pedophilia, (and god knows im very unforgiving on that subject) see more here,
http://heavy.com/entertainment/2017/03/chuck-berry-why-did-go-to-prison-jail-sentence-in-1960s-violate-mann-act-prostitution-tax-evasion/
or maybe here where it is actually stated they had sex.
http://raresoul.com/2013/02/19/chuck-berry-begins-jail-sentence-over-14-year-old/
i guess when i think of Pedophilia i think of kids being abused against their wishes, but im quite possibly wrong in that thinking.
1972 tax evasion: 1st article again,Another Hit and More Personal Strife
By 1972 Berry was back with Chess and produced his biggest seller to date, "My Ding-a-Ling," from The London Chuck Berry Sessions. Selling over two million copies, it was his first gold record and a number 1 hit on both sides of the Atlantic according to The Illustrated Encyclopedia of Rock. He had hit pay dirt, but his obsession to have a bank account with a $1 million figure led to another run-in with the law. In 1979 Berry was convicted of tax evasion and spent just over three months at Lompoc Prison Camp in California. Perhaps the one thing that has caused him more pleasure/pain than money is his fancy for women, stated simply in his book: "The only real bother about prison, to me, is the loss of love." He has said that he hopes to write a book one day devoted solely to his sex life.
paying off the filmed women:
http://www.clashmusic.com/features/10-things-you-never-knew-about-chuck-berry
1. Chuck Berry once opened a restaurant called The Southern Air in Missouri. According to a former waitress, Berry wired the women’s toilets with a video camera and recorded some two hundred unsuspecting patrons using it. Charges were dropped when Berry agreed to compensate the victims of his “potty cam” financially.
i got to admit that last one creeps me out.
so there you go, another famous person dies and the skeletons start flying. i look forward to the day someone famous dies and everyone liked them and no one says anything bad about them. you have to wonder how much fame has to do with them behaving badly, getting away with it, and even getting accused in the first place.
well Keith Richards was always my favorite stone, now there is an epic thread waiting to happen, though he may outlive human life full stop!
Go Johnny Go, Johnny B Goode!!
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Pies4shaw
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
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| A famous black man in trouble wth the law in the US in the 1950s and 60s? Well, you could have knocked me down with a feather. |
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think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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| Pies4shaw wrote: | | A famous black man in trouble wth the law in the US in the 1950s and 60s? Well, you could have knocked me down with a feather. |
And then there is definitely that!
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You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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| Mugwump wrote: | | Did you read the facts ? What is it about the facts of the conviction that suggests it was not paedophilia to you ? |
We really do need to get the terminology on this right, Mugwump – paedophilia is a condition, not a crime, and in any case relates to attraction to prepubescent children. Having sex with a 14 year old is generally referred to as statutory rape, and someone who wished to do that would generally be referred to as a hebephile or ephebophile (though could just as easily be a regular heterosexual man acting unethically).
I think it's fair enough to bring stuff like this up, by the way, but it doesn't and shouldn't affect his legacy as a musician.
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stui magpie 
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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^
he'd hardly be the only musician to root a 14 yr old
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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Doesn't make it ok, needless to say! But yeah, David Bowie is just one other who comes to mind who had sex with an underage girl.
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All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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Mugwump
Joined: 28 Jul 2007
Location: Between London and Melbourne
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| David wrote: | | Mugwump wrote: | | Did you read the facts ? What is it about the facts of the conviction that suggests it was not paedophilia to you ? |
We really do need to get the terminology on this right, Mugwump – paedophilia is a condition, not a crime, and in any case relates to attraction to prepubescent children. Having sex with a 14 year old is generally referred to as statutory rape, and someone who wished to do that would generally be referred to as a hebephile or ephebophile (though could just as easily be a regular heterosexual man acting unethically).
I think it's fair enough to bring stuff like this up, by the way, but it doesn't and shouldn't affect his legacy as a musician. |
Sorry for the terminology error, then. As you may recall, I have a lot of sympathy for paedophiles, who are afflicted with a horrible sickness. We should definitely treat this as a medical condition. I have less sympathy with a grown man who commits the various acts of which Berry was convicted over a long period.
The discussion was somewhat sidetracked by my need to justify what I wrote on that specific point. The real point is the way that things which would normally be condemned vigorously by the arbiters of modern morals are airbrushed away because those same people love rock'n'roll (one of our modern religions). There are many whose works are in better taste than their lives. My interest is in the double standard, and what it means.
Yes, he grew up poor and black in a very unjust America. But so did Muhammad Ali, Paul Robeson, Sammy Davis Jr, Nat King Cole, Muddy Waters, William "Count" Basie, and many others. They all had faults, like the rest of us, but I can admire every one of them for their work, their courage and their life. I can't feel that about Chuck Berry. The armed robbery and Mann Act thing can be explained away as youthful hot-headedness. But what sort of man makes non-consensual toilet videos in middle-age ? It's also interesting that flagrant tax evasion is apparently not a big issue if you are a rock'n'roll star, where it would be if someone was a politician or a business executive.
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stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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^
or a gangster (Al Capone)
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Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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