 |
|
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
Culprit 
Joined: 06 Feb 2003
Location: Port Melbourne
|
| Post subject: |  |
|
| Terrorism is just that, kill and injure people to scare others by any means and that is what the Russians are doing. Good to see the Russians blaming Ukrianians so they can send a few 100 missiles over and call it legit. |
|
|
|
 |
swoop42 
Whatcha gonna do when he comes for you?
Joined: 02 Aug 2008
Location: The 18
|
| Post subject: | |
|
The suspects have clearly been tortured. Given it's Russia no surprise.
I know people wont have much sympathy for them but given it's Russia you need to always wonder what is truth and what are lies.
They seem to have be detained rather quickly and one worries whether those captured are innocents who have been tortured until they falsely confess.
Even if guilty it's odd they were able to pull off this terrorist act (despite American warnings) under the watchful eyes of the FSB and yet weren't smart enough to evade capture for any significant period.
Given Putin is trying to link the suspects with Ukraine (denied by them and US intelligence) you have to at least wonder if this terrorist act was allowed to occur or an even worse was some kind of false flag operation against it's own people.
Nothing would surprise me when it comes to Putin.
_________________
He's mad. He's bad. He's MaynHARD! |
|
|
|
|
stui magpie 
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
|
| Post subject: | |
|
^
damn straight they're being tortured, you connect an 80 volt battery to my gonads and I'll take responsibility for whatever you ask me to.
_________________
Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
|
|
|
|
Magpietothemax 
magpietothemax
Joined: 28 Apr 2013
|
| Post subject: | |
|
| swoop42 wrote: | The suspects have clearly been tortured. Given it's Russia no surprise.
|
umm....it is actually the US that has pioneered the modern forms of torture (waterboarding, rectal feeding, Abu Ghraib.. , sites of rendition). Let us not use torture as a pretext to demonise the Russian government when the US government is up to its neck in it.
_________________
Free Julian Assange!!
Ice in the veins |
|
|
|
|
Magpietothemax
magpietothemax
Joined: 28 Apr 2013
|
| Post subject: | |
|
| stui magpie wrote: | ^
damn straight they're being tortured, you connect an 80 volt battery to my gonads and I'll take responsibility for whatever you ask me to. |
Yeah, just ask the US torturers at Abu Ghraib.
_________________
Free Julian Assange!!
Ice in the veins |
|
|
|
|
David 
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
|
| Post subject: | |
|
Why leap to defend them like this? "Yeah but America does it too" is classic Putinist misdirection. The fact that Russian police treat terrorism suspects this way – apparently with full approval of government – is disgusting, and such police brutality is a stain on that society. We can point that out without qualification.
America has plenty to be ashamed of, of course. No need to wheel their own sordid history out here unless the goal is to downplay.
_________________
All watched over by machines of loving grace |
|
|
|
|
Magpietothemax
magpietothemax
Joined: 28 Apr 2013
|
| Post subject: | |
|
| David wrote: | Why leap to defend them like this? "Yeah but America does it too" is classic Putinist misdirection. The fact that Russian police treat terrorism suspects this way – apparently with full approval of government – is disgusting, and such police brutality is a stain on that society. We can point that out without qualification.
America has plenty to be ashamed of, of course. No need to wheel their own sordid history out here unless the goal is to downplay. |
I am not leaping to defend Putin.
I am simply saying that using this argument to condemn Putin in particular is misleading, given that the US is culpable of far worse.
I condemn both Putin AND the US government.
If you simply condemn Putin in particular for torture, with no reference to the criminal use of torture by US administrations, then you are simply acting as a mouthpiece of US propaganda.
_________________
Free Julian Assange!!
Ice in the veins |
|
|
|
|
Tannin 
Can't remember
Joined: 06 Aug 2006
Location: Huon Valley Tasmania
|
| Post subject: | |
|
I take your point @Magpietothemax, and it is a good one, or it would be if you hadn't overstated the case. Putin is far, far worse than the Americans ever were, and I say that as a card-carrying anti-American ever since the 1970s.
Yes, the Americans did (and presumably still do) some truly awful things, but no-one in his right mind would put them in even the same league as Putin's regime, which is as evil as any government ever known in any country. (At least I cannot think of a worse one.)
_________________
�Let's eat Grandma.� Commas save lives! |
|
|
|
|
Magpietothemax
magpietothemax
Joined: 28 Apr 2013
|
| Post subject: | |
|
| Tannin wrote: | I take your point @Magpietothemax, and it is a good one, or it
Yes, the Americans did (and presumably still do) some truly awful things, but no-one in his right mind would put them in even the same league as Putin's regime, which is as evil as any government ever known in any country. (At least I cannot think of a worse one.) |
...and here I disagree with you.
The US government is by far the more violent, criminal and dangerous government than Putin's regime in Russia.
As i type, the Biden administration is supplying arms and money to israel so that it can continue to massacre Palestinians in Gaza. Already, at least
40000 are dead, in 6 months, in a population of 2.1 million. This rate of civilian mortality far surpasses anything that Russia is carrying out in Ukraine.
The war in Ukraine was deliberately engineered by the US and its NATO allies, as NATO expanded its borders ever closer to Russia and the US government deliberately sabotaged any attempts by the Zelensky regime to negotiate an agreement with Russia to avoid war.
The US and NATO continue to supply Ukraine's army with weapons, tanks airplanes and training, and are using the Ukrainian male population as cannon fodder in an un declared war against Russia.
On a world scale, the crimes committed by the Putin regime are clearly smaller. The Putin regime commits criminal violence and repression against the population in Russia and in Ukraine, but not against the population of the entire world, as the US government does. Thjs is not due to the fact that Putin is "less evil" than Biden. It is because Russia holds an entirely different position in the world economy compared to the US.
The US is the former economic hegemon, and its banks and financial institutions dominate the world economy. But the US is losing its grip on its economic ascendancy, so it is resorting more and more to criminality in an increasingly desperate and reckless attempt to preserve its economic dominance.
Compared to the US, Russia occupies a subordinate role. It is the US that can impose punitive economic and financial sanctions on Russia, and not vice verca. It is the US, not Russia, which has military bases scattered across the entire globe, encircling both Russia and China. It is the US, not Russia, nor China, that invades and destroys entire countries in wars based on lies (Iraq).
_________________
Free Julian Assange!!
Ice in the veins |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum
|
|
The Rules
FAQ
Usergroups
Calendar
Search
Log in
Register
