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Bushfires and fuel reduction

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stui magpie Gemini

Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.


Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto

PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2020 9:43 am
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David wrote:
That guy cuts through a lot of the bullshit:

Quote:
Mr Fitzsimmons said longer and hotter summers — contributed to by climate change — mean the window for hazard reduction burning is shorter each year.

That’s widely accepted among firefighters, including Drew, who said weather extremes and drought made the jobs of fireys hard.

“Yes, conditions have been so bad this season that fires have still burnt through areas where hazard reduction burns were completed earlier in the year,” he said.

But he also said governments needed to invest significantly more in hazard reduction burns.

“NSW for example, as an estimate, would need to increase their budget from $100 million to a half billion, a five fold increase and that money needs to come from somewhere,” he said.

He also rubbished another suggestion spread on social media that environmentalists had ‘locked up’ national parks and nature reserves.

“Yes, (they) need to burn too but are hard to,” Drew said.

“They are the (sanctuaries) for Australian fauna who can no longer survive in the farmlands and housing estates we’ve constructed. Indiscriminate burning of national parks will literally wipe species off the face of the earth as they often have nowhere else to go.”

And he went on to challenge both sides of the political spectrum to look outside their social media and news consumption bubbles.

“No, a video on Facebook of a guy in the bush screaming at the greens is not facts about what caused these fires. No, a video of someone shouting at ScoMo for not funding the NSW Rural Fire Service (state gov funded) is not facts about what caused these fires.”

Opponents to action on climate change have taken to social media and the comments sections of news websites, including news.com.au, to attack the suggestion that bushfires demonstrate more should be done to reduce emissions.

“No, climate change is not starting fires,” Drew said. “Lightening strikes, people, negligence etc … is starting fires. But yes, climate change is contributing to increasing temperatures and increasing drought severity which is creating worsening fire conditions.

“Yes, climate change is contributing to a longer fire season. Yes, we should have acted on climate change long ago. All of us. The whole world. Everyone.

“No, no one knows exactly how much climate change has contributed to exacerbating the conditions for this year’s catastrophic fire season however the best science available and scientific consensus is that there is an undeniable link.”


That does cut through the bullshit, you have a link for that?

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David Libra

I dare you to try


Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda

PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2020 9:44 am
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^ That’s from the link Morrigu posted in the post above mine.
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Wokko Pisces

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Joined: 04 Oct 2005


PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2020 11:51 am
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Isn’t it just common sense to want to do all we practically can to prevent this sort of thing happening? But nah, we’ll just blame it on climate change, do less preventative burning, ban people from clearing ground fuel or trees from their own land then blame climate 'deniers' whilst simultaneously downplaying all the arsonists and ciggie butt tossing morons involved… because it’s a “climate emergency”.
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roar 



Joined: 01 Sep 2004


PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2020 11:55 am
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Wokko wrote:
Isn’t it just common sense to want to do all we practically can to prevent this sort of thing happening?


Yes, it is, and doesn't that include minimising the climate affecting polution?

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Wokko Pisces

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Joined: 04 Oct 2005


PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2020 12:03 pm
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That will have exactly 0 impact on bushfires, it's an irrelevancy.

Pollution and the environment are important, but even if you shut down everything, and I mean everything and turned us into an agrarian utopia with no industry or power generation at all there'd still be bushfires, huge ones every ten years or so, like there has been for tens of thousands of years.

Climate has changed in that time, been hotter, cooler, wetter drier and the humans who lived here, without industry, power or anything beyond stone age technology still had bushfires to deal with. Not sure why modern man thinks he's so special that he can control the climate, even if he's had an impact over the last 150 years or so of industrialization.
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PyreneesPie Pisces

PyreneesPie


Joined: 22 Aug 2014


PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2020 6:48 pm
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Wokko wrote:
Not sure why modern man thinks he's so special that he can control the climate, even if he's had an impact over the last 150 years or so of industrialization.


Wink You don't see the lack of logic in this statement Wokko?

Industrialization has had a massive effect on not only the climate, but all of nature, including us, full stop. I find it hard to understand why we wouldn't want to reverse some of that damage, when we have the technology and resources to do so. The greedy, self-absorption of mankind could still proceed as per usual if desired, while the rest of the planet could benefit in a myriad of ways.
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stui magpie Gemini

Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.


Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto

PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2020 7:01 pm
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Went for a drive down the lower river road this arvo, checked out the eastern fringe of the Barmah forest. Very pleased to see signs it's all been burnt since i last went down there in March. Some long grass on the roadside in patches but bugger all in the way of ground fuel.

Can't vouch for the forest proper but what I saw that part is safe.

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Wokko Pisces

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Joined: 04 Oct 2005


PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2020 8:17 pm
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PyreneesPie wrote:
Wokko wrote:
Not sure why modern man thinks he's so special that he can control the climate, even if he's had an impact over the last 150 years or so of industrialization.


Wink You don't see the lack of logic in this statement Wokko?

Industrialization has had a massive effect on not only the climate, but all of nature, including us, full stop. I find it hard to understand why we wouldn't want to reverse some of that damage, when we have the technology and resources to do so. The greedy, self-absorption of mankind could still proceed as per usual if desired, while the rest of the planet could benefit in a myriad of ways.


My point is IF humans have caused some climate change (all the models have been wrong so far, most accurate is a Russian one that shows the least warming of them all) then that warming has been caused by the entire world industrializing in the late 18th Century until now with China and India doing it now. For humans to think that taking "Climate Action" now will have any impact whatsoever on this warming or on bushfires is arrogant at BEST.

Our action should be adapting to, not trying to control any changes in climate which might I add would be happening over 100s to 1000s of years.
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David Libra

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Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda

PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2020 9:33 pm
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Emissions haven’t been stable for 150 years, though – in fact, they’ve radically increased since the 19th century and have been particularly concentrated in the last seven decades. See this graph, for example:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D2aWYqFXgAEuVv4?format=jpg&name=large

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Wonka 



Joined: 06 Jan 2019


PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2020 10:20 pm
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Wokko wrote:

Our action should be adapting to, not trying to control any changes in climate which might I add would be happening over 100s to 1000s of years.

I went out today and I could barely breathe and my lungs are killing me. How do you want me to adapt to breathing crap all day?
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Pi Gemini



Joined: 13 Feb 2006
Location: SA

PostPosted: Fri Jan 10, 2020 8:01 am
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Wonka wrote:
Wokko wrote:

Our action should be adapting to, not trying to control any changes in climate which might I add would be happening over 100s to 1000s of years.

I went out today and I could barely breathe and my lungs are killing me. How do you want me to adapt to breathing crap all day?


Now you know what its like to do a shift of blacking out on the back of a fire truck (not really; but it gives you a basic idea), at least your eyes aren't sore and you wont stink of it weeks after because it goes into the pores of your skin. Think of it as a shared experience.

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PyreneesPie Pisces

PyreneesPie


Joined: 22 Aug 2014


PostPosted: Sat Jan 11, 2020 11:46 am
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https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-01-11/australias-fires-reveal-arson-not-a-major-cause/11855022
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David Libra

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Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda

PostPosted: Sat Jan 11, 2020 1:17 pm
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^ Here’s a key passage from that article, for those who may have been sucked in by Pajama Watson’s rant:

Quote:
This week, a NSW Police media release revealed 24 people had been charged over deliberately-lit bushfires this season.

However, the majority of suspected arson relates to small grass fires and rubbish bins set alight, which have inflicted negligible damage and burnt a tiny area compared with fires sparked by lightning.


How about all of those people arrested in Queensland?

Quote:
Queensland Police said there had been 1,068 reported bushfires between September and January 8, of which 114 of which had been deliberately lit.


While number doesn’t equal scope, I trust we’re all capable of doing basic maths here.

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Wonka 



Joined: 06 Jan 2019


PostPosted: Sat Jan 11, 2020 1:26 pm
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Pi wrote:

Now you know what its like to do a shift of blacking out on the back of a fire truck (not really; but it gives you a basic idea), at least your eyes aren't sore and you wont stink of it weeks after because it goes into the pores of your skin.

My eyes were the first to be sore.
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Wokko Pisces

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Joined: 04 Oct 2005


PostPosted: Sat Jan 11, 2020 1:26 pm
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Yeah, much more likely that political policy of Liberal parties caused the bush fires and giving money to the UN would stop them.

Rolling Eyes

No climate change policy would've prevented, mitigated or minimized these fires. Better prevention measures may have. That's it.
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