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David 
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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^ Woods, did you read my post? I literally just referenced the same source twice!
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All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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Woods 
Joined: 21 Aug 2013
Location: Melbourne
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Did you understand mine before you went off on your rant?
The point of my post was that its not climate change causing the bush fires. Its arsonists. You seem to in strident agreement with me if you're quoting the same source. |
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stui magpie 
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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I think the word "cause" is part of the problem, there can only be a small minority of idiots who actually think that climate change is the actual cause, but they are noisy on social media.
As Woods said, the forest doesn't spontaneously combust because of hot weather (although haystacks can, different story)
I read somewhere that the ignition of bushfires is roughly in 3rds.
1/3 arson
1/3 accident, including camp fires, fuel reductions out of control, cigarettes out car windows etc
1/3 lightening strike.
Regardless of the ignition source, without fuel there's no firer. The more fuel, the greater intensity, the drier the fuel (this is where global warming kicks in) the hotter it burns.
All bushfires start with ground fuel, if it gets hot enough it climbs into the tree canopy and runs away, burning straight over land where the ground fuel has been eliminated and, provided there's a decent breeze, sending flying embers that light more ground fuel ahead of it.
Once the fire intensity passes a certain point, you can't fight it, the only option is to get ahead of it, backburn and make firebreaks.
Bushfires start with ground fuel, with climate change / global warming they start in spring, without climate change but the same amount of fuel, they start in late January or early Feb
Anyone who can, I suggest they get up around Kinglake which was devastated by the Black Saturday fires in 2009 and see what the ground fuel situation looks like because if what I read is correct and there's been no hazard reduction work done in near 10 years, it's odds on to ignite again next month
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Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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| Woods wrote: | Did you understand mine before you went off on your rant?
The point of my post was that its not climate change causing the bush fires. Its arsonists. You seem to in strident agreement with me if you're quoting the same source. |
Really starting to wonder about your comprehension skills, Woods. Like Pajama Watson, you’re looking at the "87% of bushfires are man-made" headline and not reading further to see that only half of those – and thus a minority of all bushfires, or else at most around half – are suspected to be arson-related. I also pointed out how dumb a talking point "it’s arson, not climate change" is, but if you didn’t read my last post I doubt you’ll pay any attention to this one.
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All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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| David wrote: | | Woods wrote: | Did you understand mine before you went off on your rant?
The point of my post was that its not climate change causing the bush fires. Its arsonists. You seem to in strident agreement with me if you're quoting the same source. |
Really starting to wonder about your comprehension skills, Woods. Like Pajama Watson, you’re looking at the "87% of bushfires are man-made" headline and not reading further to see that only half of those – and thus a minority of all bushfires, or else at most around half – are suspected to be arson-related. I also pointed out how dumb a talking point "it’s arson, not climate change" is, but if you didn’t read my last post I doubt you’ll pay any attention to this one. |
Do you have to be so rude? Name calling questioning people IQ, opinions are just that opinions,
Read Stuis post it makes perfect sense, as for the arsonists, add the arsonists to the dickheads with the cigarettes and that’s 66% so that’s man made for the majority, read stuis pist re the undergrowth, you keep suggesting others pay more attention to what you write, maybe take your own advice
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You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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My disagreement isn’t with Stui – I agree with his last post for the most part. Otherwise, everything I wrote to Woods stands.
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All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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Morrigu
Joined: 11 Aug 2001
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watt price tully 
Joined: 15 May 2007
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| Morrigu wrote: | | https://www.news.com.au/technology/online/social/firefighter-slams-outright-lies-about-bushfires-as-experts-expose-bots-and-bizarre-conspiracies/news-story/239e251201616f686a5e4d28c004947a |
Exactly.
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“I even went as far as becoming a Southern Baptist until I realised they didn’t keep ‘em under long enough” Kinky Friedman |
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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That guy cuts through a lot of the bullshit:
| Quote: | Mr Fitzsimmons said longer and hotter summers — contributed to by climate change — mean the window for hazard reduction burning is shorter each year.
That’s widely accepted among firefighters, including Drew, who said weather extremes and drought made the jobs of fireys hard.
“Yes, conditions have been so bad this season that fires have still burnt through areas where hazard reduction burns were completed earlier in the year,” he said.
But he also said governments needed to invest significantly more in hazard reduction burns.
“NSW for example, as an estimate, would need to increase their budget from $100 million to a half billion, a five fold increase and that money needs to come from somewhere,” he said.
He also rubbished another suggestion spread on social media that environmentalists had ‘locked up’ national parks and nature reserves.
“Yes, (they) need to burn too but are hard to,” Drew said.
“They are the (sanctuaries) for Australian fauna who can no longer survive in the farmlands and housing estates we’ve constructed. Indiscriminate burning of national parks will literally wipe species off the face of the earth as they often have nowhere else to go.”
And he went on to challenge both sides of the political spectrum to look outside their social media and news consumption bubbles.
“No, a video on Facebook of a guy in the bush screaming at the greens is not facts about what caused these fires. No, a video of someone shouting at ScoMo for not funding the NSW Rural Fire Service (state gov funded) is not facts about what caused these fires.”
Opponents to action on climate change have taken to social media and the comments sections of news websites, including news.com.au, to attack the suggestion that bushfires demonstrate more should be done to reduce emissions.
“No, climate change is not starting fires,” Drew said. “Lightening strikes, people, negligence etc … is starting fires. But yes, climate change is contributing to increasing temperatures and increasing drought severity which is creating worsening fire conditions.
“Yes, climate change is contributing to a longer fire season. Yes, we should have acted on climate change long ago. All of us. The whole world. Everyone.
“No, no one knows exactly how much climate change has contributed to exacerbating the conditions for this year’s catastrophic fire season however the best science available and scientific consensus is that there is an undeniable link.” |
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All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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| David wrote: | | My disagreement isn’t with Stui – I agree with his last post for the most part. Otherwise, everything I wrote to Woods stands. |
see you dont read peoples post thoroughly.
i said Stuis post makes perfect sense.
but when i called out your not so nice language i quoted your reply to woods.
still not sure why its ok to talk down to woods
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You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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watt price tully
Joined: 15 May 2007
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| David wrote: | | Woods wrote: | Did you understand mine before you went off on your rant?
The point of my post was that its not climate change causing the bush fires. Its arsonists. You seem to in strident agreement with me if you're quoting the same source. |
Really starting to wonder about your comprehension skills, Woods. Like Pajama Watson, you’re looking at the "87% of bushfires are man-made" headline and not reading further to see that only half of those – and thus a minority of all bushfires, or else at most around half – are suspected to be arson-related. I also pointed out how dumb a talking point "it’s arson, not climate change" is, but if you didn’t read my last post I doubt you’ll pay any attention to this one. |
Yes exactly David, speculation quoted as fact. I think that 87% of psychologists are full of shit: unfortunately it’s true when it comes to acute psychiatry in my experience 😉 🤭
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“I even went as far as becoming a Southern Baptist until I realised they didn’t keep ‘em under long enough” Kinky Friedman |
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PyreneesPie 
PyreneesPie
Joined: 22 Aug 2014
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| stui magpie wrote: |
I read somewhere that the ignition of bushfires is roughly in 3rds.
1/3 arson
1/3 accident, including camp fires, fuel reductions out of control, cigarettes out car windows etc
1/3 lightening strike.
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Just as aside, because of changing weather patterns, we are now experiencing "dry" thunderstorms far more often ie thunder and lightning without rain. This is what caused a fire to start on my daughter's farm just before Christmas.
So, presumably something can be done to reduce factors 1 and 2, but the dry lightning factor is beyond our immediate influence. It is caused by a lack of moisture in the air, which in turn is the result of monsoonal systems arriving late, which is caused by climate change. |
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watt price tully
Joined: 15 May 2007
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| PyreneesPie wrote: | | stui magpie wrote: |
I read somewhere that the ignition of bushfires is roughly in 3rds.
1/3 arson
1/3 accident, including camp fires, fuel reductions out of control, cigarettes out car windows etc
1/3 lightening strike.
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Just as aside, because of changing weather patterns, we are now experiencing "dry" thunderstorms far more often ie thunder and lightning without rain. This is what caused a fire to start on my daughter's farm just before Christmas.
So, presumably something can be done to reduce factors 1 and 2, but the dry lightning factor is beyond our immediate influence. It is caused by a lack of moisture in the air, which in turn is the result of monsoonal systems arriving late, which is caused by climate change. |
Correct weight.
Climate change is the context and a general cause while arsonists, lightening, lack of burnoff for whatever reason are some of the causes either specfic or contributory.
_________________
“I even went as far as becoming a Southern Baptist until I realised they didn’t keep ‘em under long enough” Kinky Friedman |
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watt price tully
Joined: 15 May 2007
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| watt price tully wrote: | | David wrote: | | Woods wrote: | Did you understand mine before you went off on your rant?
The point of my post was that its not climate change causing the bush fires. Its arsonists. You seem to in strident agreement with me if you're quoting the same source. |
Really starting to wonder about your comprehension skills, Woods. Like Pajama Watson, you’re looking at the "87% of bushfires are man-made" headline and not reading further to see that only half of those – and thus a minority of all bushfires, or else at most around half – are suspected to be arson-related. I also pointed out how dumb a talking point "it’s arson, not climate change" is, but if you didn’t read my last post I doubt you’ll pay any attention to this one. |
Yes exactly David, speculation quoted as fact. I think that 87% of psychologists are full of shit: unfortunately it’s true when it comes to acute psychiatry in my experience 😉 🤭 |
More on Wood’s conspiracy theories about bushfires and arsonists:
https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2020/jan/08/police-contradict-claims-spread-online-exaggerating-arsons-role-in-australian-bushfires
Bolts (sorry bots) and trolls spreading disinformation campaign: who’d a thunk?
https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2020/jan/08/twitter-bots-trolls-australian-bushfires-social-media-disinformation-campaign-false-claims
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“I even went as far as becoming a Southern Baptist until I realised they didn’t keep ‘em under long enough” Kinky Friedman |
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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| think positive wrote: | | David wrote: | | My disagreement isn’t with Stui – I agree with his last post for the most part. Otherwise, everything I wrote to Woods stands. |
see you dont read peoples post thoroughly.
i said Stuis post makes perfect sense.
but when i called out your not so nice language i quoted your reply to woods.
still not sure why its ok to talk down to woods |
By telling me to read Stui’s post, you were implying that a) I hadn’t and b) it somehow undermined my response to Woods. But as I said, I have read it and agree with nearly all of it. In any case, I wouldn’t be worried about Woods; he can dish it out when he likes so I’m sure he can take it.
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All watched over by machines of loving grace
Last edited by David on Thu Jan 09, 2020 9:43 am; edited 1 time in total |
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