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stui magpie 
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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Bit more on Indigenous burning and how it's different to European notions of fuel reduction burns.
https://www.theage.com.au/national/nsw/it-s-miraculous-owners-say-cultural-burning-saved-their-property-20200103-p53okc.html?fbclid=IwAR3s2lvZbVlU0Nr50Jhdd-F6qqxP4lgNi1A2UukMPCVouP_rt84mSIuAVcU
| Quote: | Owners say the property was saved by the traditional Indigenous technique of cultural burning conducted on their land three years ago.
The only hut not protected by cultural burning, 500 metres from the main house, was destroyed in the blaze.
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| Quote: | Unlike hazard reduction burning, cultural burns are cooler and slower moving, usually no taller than knee height, leaving tree canopies untouched and allowing animals to take refuge from the flames. Small fires are lit with matches, instead of drip torches, and burn in a circular pattern.
Mr Barber says the ancient practice is informed by thousands of years of traditional knowledge. |
| Quote: | A former park ranger with 15 years’ professional firefighting experience, Mr Barber says he had a “light bulb moment" at a cultural burning workshop with Indigenous elders in far north Queensland in 2010.
“Everything that I'd been doing as a professional firefighter, thinking that I was doing the right thing, was wrong, because I viewed fire in the landscape totally differently after that week,” he said. |
And here's the problem.
| Quote: | The Wiradjuri man started Koori Country Firesticks in 2016 to promote cultural burning as an alternative to hazard reduction techniques in NSW. The organisation has culturally burnt around 50 hectares of land across the Hunter Valley and Sydney, mainly on private properties at the request of owners.
But the 55-year-old has met plenty of resistance from governments, professional firefighters, national parks and even ecologists. |
Trained professionals in northern hemisphere methods are clearly smarter than a blackfella, why would they listen to 10's of thousands of years of accumulated knowledge?
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Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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Pi
Joined: 13 Feb 2006
Location: SA
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| stui magpie wrote: |
And here's the problem.
| Quote: | The Wiradjuri man started Koori Country Firesticks in 2016 to promote cultural burning as an alternative to hazard reduction techniques in NSW. The organisation has culturally burnt around 50 hectares of land across the Hunter Valley and Sydney, mainly on private properties at the request of owners.
But the 55-year-old has met plenty of resistance from governments, professional firefighters, national parks and even ecologists. |
Trained professionals in northern hemisphere methods are clearly smarter than a blackfella, why would they listen to 10's of thousands of years of accumulated knowledge? |
^
yep and you could amplify that resistance if any carbon tax and extra layer of continental European style bureaucracy is used to create more problems, no new idea (old idea in this case) would ever get past the data entry clerk.
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Pi = Infinite = Collingwood = Always
Floreat Pica |
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David 
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-01-07/fuel-reduction-burn-debate-rubbish-says-vic-fire-chief/11849522?pfmredir=sm
| Quote: | The Country Fire Authority's chief officer Steve Warrington said there was a "fair amount of emotion" around the issue.
"We've had fire down the landscape here that has had burns go right through it [during colder months] and it hasn't slowed it at all," he said.
"The emotive argument is not supported that fuel reduction burning will fix all our problems.
"Some of the hysteria that this will be the solution to all our problems is really just quite an emotional load of rubbish, to be honest." |
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All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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lets just say for a minute that slowing climate change would really help all on its own, how long will that take? meanwhile in the years it takes, the country burns!
i think ill listen to the blackfella above!
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You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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I don’t think anyone anywhere is suggesting that we stop all other bushfire prevention strategies and focus solely on climate change. It goes without saying that both are essential.
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All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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Unfortunately David, there are people pretty much saying exactly that.
In their view, Climate Change is the sole cause of these fires, the amount of fuel is irrelevant, and reducing fuel loads by controlled burning is a waste of time
_________________
Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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pietillidie
Joined: 07 Jan 2005
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^How do things keep getting reduced to this? The cheap thrill of (imaginary) influence makes people lose their minds. The culprit is likely a political system which funnels everything down to two choices, with only one seen as the 'winner', so you have to pile on like a zombie for one side lest you 'lose'.
I can't see a remedy at this stage. People are addicted to this shite; it's a real threat to the gains of individualism.
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In the end the rain comes down, washes clean the streets of a blue sky town.
Help Nick's: http://www.magpies.net/nick/bb/fundraising.htm |
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stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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Yeah, I don't get it and it's frustrating. I've seen multiple people claim that fuel reduction is all a myth created by the Murdoch media FFS.
Basic physics says in order to have a fire, you need fuel, oxygen and ignition. So in that regard, neither climate change or fuel loads "cause" bush fires but both independently and collectively they have a definite effect on the intensity of the fire.
Again, basic physics, the more fuel the more intense the fire, the drier the fuel the hotter it burns
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Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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Woods 
Joined: 21 Aug 2013
Location: Melbourne
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Woods
Joined: 21 Aug 2013
Location: Melbourne
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think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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| stui magpie wrote: | ^
Yeah, I don't get it and it's frustrating. I've seen multiple people claim that fuel reduction is all a myth created by the Murdoch media FFS.
Basic physics says in order to have a fire, you need fuel, oxygen and ignition. So in that regard, neither climate change or fuel loads "cause" bush fires but both independently and collectively they have a definite effect on the intensity of the fire.
Again, basic physics, the more fuel the more intense the fire, the drier the fuel the hotter it burns |
Yup, I think a combination of it’s too hard, not my problem, blame someone else.
I can’t believe, as you say the amount of people on Facebook saying this shit. A friend who’s daughter works for a place as an engineer for climate change (really) is going off the deep end, meanwhile said child is off on holiday, not Hawaii but close, and her other daughter job is going through the bush after the fire looking for still alive animals to save or cull. I imagine the homecoming dinner will be interesting. I can’t imagine doing that job, I’m actually worried for her mental state, a kid I’ve known since birth, and coached for years. She’s a softy, great for the animals ....
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You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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Deceptive bullshit from a conspiracy theorist who makes his money selling snake oil to gullible people:
• cites a Paul Read piece that clearly indicates a minority of fires (around 40%) are suspected to be arson-related – read the whole thing here: https://www.smh.com.au/national/arson-mischief-and-recklessness-87-per-cent-of-fires-are-man-made-20191117-p53bcl.html – then claims that arson is the "primary cause" of the fires
• claims that fires caused by arson have "nothing to do with climate change", even though anyone with half a brain knows that climate (via dryness, temperature and wind speed) affects the scope of bushfires and has little bearing on the nature of the ignition incident
• repeats discredited accusations about "the green lobby" being responsible for insufficient burnoffs
• attacks regulations on burnoffs even though, returning to the Read citation, between 37% and 47% of bushfires are caused by human carelessness, so it’s almost like those regulations exist for a reason?
• describes the drought-causing Indian Ocean Dipole as a "natural weather phenomenon" even though it is currently in an extreme positive cycle and studies have shown that such variations are affected by CO2 emissions: https://www.bbc.com/news/amp/science-environment-50602971
• uses misleading graphs to suggest that Australian temperatures haven’t increased and that rainfall hasn’t decreased (see the BOM’s graphs on each of these here: http://www.bom.gov.au/state-of-the-climate/australias-changing-climate.shtml)
• concludes with the conspiracy theory that climate policy is an attempt to control the populace
Stick to selling soy supplements, Paul.
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All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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Wokko 
Come and take it.
Joined: 04 Oct 2005
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| Alex Jones has been right about a lot of things but I'd be very careful about sourcing him and his news sites before doing some thorough fact checking. He's always gone with stories as early and sensationally as possible so tread with caution. |
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Woods
Joined: 21 Aug 2013
Location: Melbourne
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“Most people (I hope) understand that trees tend not to spontaneously combust, no matter what the air temperature is; when we talk about bushfires starting naturally, we are talking about lightning strikes igniting tinder. The climate change argument posits that the more extreme weather conditions – higher temperatures, drought and so forth – make fires, however started, much more destructive and much more difficult to control and extinguish. These are debates to be had between climatologists, forestry experts and firefighters.
What is painfully clear, however, that Australia has a firebug crisis. It will no doubt be up to future royal commissions and inquiries to calculate exactly what proportion of the current loss and destruction can be attributed to human action, but I suspect it will be a significant one. Mankind may be causing climate change, but man is most definitely making fires start.
Where’s the proof, you ask? Below is a sample of news reports from around the country over recent months…”
https://www.spectator.com.au/2020/01/we-dont-just-have-a-bushfire-crisis-we-have-an-arson-crisis-too/
I call it 'The Greta Effect'. |
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Woods
Joined: 21 Aug 2013
Location: Melbourne
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And this from last November (where ya been guys? Bit slow on the uptake. Too busy wallowing the media-induced alarmism. Fact: the sky is not falling.).
Arson, mischief and recklessness: 87 per cent of fires are man-made
Sydney Morning Herald, 18 Nov 2019.
There are, on average, 62,000 fires in Australia every year. Only a very small number strike far from populated areas and satellite studies tell us that lightning is responsible for only 13 per cent. Not so the current fires threatening to engulf Queensland and NSW. There were no lightning strikes on most of the days when the fires first started in September. Although there have been since, these fires – joining up to create a new form of mega-fire – are almost all man-made.
https://www.smh.com.au/national/arson-mischief-and-recklessness-87-per-cent-of-fires-are-man-made-20191117-p53bcl.html |
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