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Superstars, middle class and jobbers = Premiership Model

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inxs88 



Joined: 17 Aug 2014


PostPosted: Sat Oct 12, 2019 11:12 pm
Post subject: Superstars, middle class and jobbers = Premiership ModelReply with quote

Think the Eagles, Richmond and GWS are leading the way in constructing the modern day playing list. Recruiting, developing and retaining matchwinners whom ultimately stand up on Preliminary and Grand Final day is the new paradigm. Nothing ground-breaking but as we embark on the difficult period of retaining messrs Grundy, DeGoey and Moore amongst others, Ned Guy has to be prepared to "crack a few eggs to make an omelette" so to speak.

So what constitutes a superstar, middle class and jobber? Well:

1. Superstar:

* All Australian guernseys & top 40 selections
* Elite in Champion Data rating multiple years
* Copeland Trophy multiple top 3 finishes
* Finals performances
* Brownlow finishes
* Clutch moment responses
* Disposal efficiency
* Injury profile

Whom on or list satisfies this criteria?

* Brodie Grundy
* Scott Pendlebury

Whom can get on this list?

* Darcy Moore: play 90% matches, get fitter ……)
* Jordan DeGoey: play 90% matches, get fitter.....)
* Jaidyn Stephenson: move to the Wing and be a 25+possession player)
* Adam Treloar: 80% kicking efficiency and 1 goal/game average
* Steele Sidebottom: 70:30 forward vs mid time and 40+ goal season

2. Middle-Class:

* Reliable, consistent and mainstay selections
* $450,000-$650,000 earners
* Champion Data rated above average in most categories
* Perennial top 4-10 in Copeland Trophy
* Less likely to make All Australian squads

Players we have that fit into this?

* Jeremy Howe
* Brayden Maynard
* Jamie Elliott
* Jack Crisp
* Dayne Beams (the 2019 version)
* Taylor Adams
* Tom Phillips
* W Hoskin Elliott: plays like an A or a C so averages a B Smile

3. Jobbers:

* worker bees type
* expendable to ensure superstars are NEVER lost
* capable of top 8-12 Copeland Trophy finishes
* mixed ratings by Champion Data but generally average overall
* Not automatic selections

Players like this on our list?

* Brayden Sier
* Mason Cox
* Matt Scharenberg
* Chris Mayne
* Brody Mihocek (nearly a B until that last game)
* J Thomas
* Tom Langdon
* Rupert Wills
* Ben Reid
* Matt Scharenberg
* Trav Varcoe
* James Aish
* Jordan Roughead
* Levi Greenwood

4. Uncategorised:

Naturally every year, new recruits, second and third year players get a chance to emerge from the uncategorised to any of the above three categories. So entering 2020, it shall be interesting to see how:

* Nathan Murphy
* Tyler Brown
* J Daicos
* Callum Brown
* Isaac Quaynor
* W. Kelly
* Atu Bosenavulagi

Conclusion:

We have too many C grade jobbers on our list and a lot of work to catch up to the number of clutch superstars these teams have:

Tiger Superstars:

* Dusty Martin
* Jack Riewoldt
* Trent Cotchin
* Shane Edwards
* Tom Lynch
* Bachar Houli (he is)
* Dion Prestia
* Alex Rance
* Dylan Grimes

GWS Superstars:

* Jeremy Cameron
* Stephen Coniglio
* Lachie Whitfield
* Nick Haynes
* J Kelly
* Phil Davis
* Toby Greene
* Zac Williams
* Tim Taranto

Eagles Superstars:

* Elliott Yeo
* Nic Nat
* Luke Shuey
* Jack Darling
* Jeremy McGovern
* Tim Kelly
* Shannon Hurn
* Andrew Gaff

We have some work to do!

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tbaker 



Joined: 02 Jul 2018
Location: Q19 Southern Stand MCG

PostPosted: Sun Oct 13, 2019 12:43 am
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Having your best players available at the pointy end of the season is the single biggest factor separating Richmond and us.
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K 



Joined: 09 Sep 2011


PostPosted: Sun Oct 13, 2019 1:04 am
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^ I wish a weak club like GC would go and poach all their fitness staff.
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E 



Joined: 05 May 2010


PostPosted: Sun Oct 13, 2019 9:31 am
Post subject: Reply with quote

another mind-numbing list thread.
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Pies4shaw Leo

pies4shaw


Joined: 08 Oct 2007


PostPosted: Sun Oct 13, 2019 10:38 am
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If De Goey, Sidebottom and Treloar don’t make your “A” list, there is something fundamentally wrong with your criteria.
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RudeBoy 



Joined: 28 Nov 2005


PostPosted: Sun Oct 13, 2019 12:26 pm
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I'm with P4s.
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Brown26 



Joined: 14 Sep 2001
Location: Melbourne, Victoria, Australia

PostPosted: Sun Oct 13, 2019 9:00 pm
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Mate I agree with your theory but you've skewed your assessment of our list and others to make your point mute.

As others have pointed out, if you don't put De Goey, Sidebottom and Treloar as category A players you're mad. And you've basically said they're not as good as :
Prestia, Edwards, Grimes, Yeo, Shuey, Hurn, Gaff etc.

Now they're very good players, but so are ours! You could argue Grimes, McGovern and Howe are all basically similar players - best as the third tall and intercept marking - and Howe probably offers the best offence out of the three, McGovern reads the play best (and plays a bit bigger) and Grimes is very dependable, but really - are they that much different? And Howe wasn't even in anyones discussions as a A grade player - but you're given the other two A grade gurnseys?

I think you're betrayed your point with inaccuracies of fact.

- Ben
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Rogue2k0 



Joined: 21 Feb 2018


PostPosted: Sun Oct 13, 2019 9:56 pm
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Brown26 wrote:
Mate I agree with your theory but you've skewed your assessment of our list and others to make your point mute.

As others have pointed out, if you don't put De Goey, Sidebottom and Treloar as category A players you're mad. And you've basically said they're not as good as :
Prestia, Edwards, Grimes, Yeo, Shuey, Hurn, Gaff etc.

Now they're very good players, but so are ours! You could argue Grimes, McGovern and Howe are all basically similar players - best as the third tall and intercept marking - and Howe probably offers the best offence out of the three, McGovern reads the play best (and plays a bit bigger) and Grimes is very dependable, but really - are they that much different? And Howe wasn't even in anyones discussions as a A grade player - but you're given the other two A grade gurnseys?

I think you're betrayed your point with inaccuracies of fact.

- Ben


Totally agree with above

Some examples of inaccuracies

Treloar had the most possessions in the AFL this year - not sure why he didn't make All Australian when he had more disposals, Tackles, Score Involvements, than Neale, Fyfe, Cotchin etc... A+ in my opinion - if he was at Freo - likely would have won the Brownlow.

Cotchin in my opinon very overated - kicked 3 goals for the year, had 277 disposals @ 61% efficiency - is Average or Below Average in Every Stat according to AFL Player Stats - only reason he is considered so highly is because he was/is Captain of 2 Premiership teams.

Also GWS had the world offered to them, 30+ Round 1 draft picks - a lot of whom have gone elsewhere, they got Thrashed in a Grand Final, barely beat Collingwood who played 1 quarter of football and nearly won it. As it stands I would say we are slightly ahead of GWS - we only lost a GF by 5 points - GWS 3rd biggest loss in a GF. We also beat Richmond in a GF by kicking 25 points Very Happy
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inxs88 



Joined: 17 Aug 2014


PostPosted: Mon Oct 14, 2019 10:54 am
Post subject: Reply with quote

E wrote:
another mind-numbing list thread.


Sad coming from the contributor of the Rupert Wills obsession thread.

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LaurieHolden Aquarius

Floreat Gymnorhina tyrannica


Joined: 22 Feb 2009
Location: Victoria Park

PostPosted: Tue Oct 15, 2019 1:32 pm
Post subject: Reply with quote

inxs88 wrote:
E wrote:
another mind-numbing list thread.


Sad coming from the contributor of the Rupert Wills obsession thread.


You forgot to make the thread "official"...

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inxs88 



Joined: 17 Aug 2014


PostPosted: Tue Oct 15, 2019 5:12 pm
Post subject: Reply with quote

LaurieHolden wrote:
inxs88 wrote:
E wrote:
another mind-numbing list thread.


Sad coming from the contributor of the Rupert Wills obsession thread.


You forgot to make the thread "official"...


Touche' Jack Thompson Smile

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stui magpie Gemini

Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.


Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto

PostPosted: Tue Oct 15, 2019 7:16 pm
Post subject: Reply with quote

Buckenara rates our list.

https://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/expert-opinion/gary-buckenara/gary-buckenara-analyses-collingwoods-list-after-the-2019-season/news-story/bac00e1370b109743d5e330f889d34eb

Quote:
I was wrong about Collingwood.

In the past I’ve been critical of the Magpies’ recruiting and their methods but what this club has built over the past two seasons has been remarkable when you consider where they were at the end of 2017 and the injury curse they have endured over the last two years. The players and staff that have been brought into the club have shown a tremendous amount of character and selflessness — two qualities imperative to building a successful team environment.

Collingwood is in the envious position of having 23 A, B and C+-grade players to choose from, which speaks volumes for the depth of talent on the list. That doesn’t include Jaidyn Stephenson and Isaac Quaynor — two young players I believe will develop into A or B-graders in the near future.

What the horrendous injury toll the club has endured over the last two years has done is give young players like Stephenson, Callum Brown, Isaac Quaynor, Josh Daicos, Brayden Sier and even Nathan Murphy last year more exposure to senior football than they potentially would have expected at this stage of their careers. It holds the players and coaching staff in good stead for the present and the future because they know what these guys are capable of at senior level, so they have more options to fill roles when needed.

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RudeBoy 



Joined: 28 Nov 2005


PostPosted: Tue Oct 15, 2019 7:39 pm
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That's a worry stui. Confused
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stui magpie Gemini

Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.


Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto

PostPosted: Tue Oct 15, 2019 7:46 pm
Post subject: Reply with quote

^

He does go on to say we need a genuine key forward and ideally another key back. So it's not all a sunshine suppository. Wink

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