 |
|
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
RudeBoy
Joined: 28 Nov 2005
|
| Post subject: |  |
|
Let's be clear, it's not about recruiting Indigenous players because they are Indigenous. Rather, it's about us potentially missing out on recruiting really talented players, because we seem to be averse to recruiting Indigenous players.
The worrying fact is that a member of our recruiting department, Matthew Rendell, was sacked by the Crows several years ago after being accused of declaring that he would only consider recruiting Indigenous players who had at least one white parent!
These comments raised a shit storm at the time, and a public spat between Rendell and the AFL's then Indigenous relations officer, which is why I was surprised when he ended up at Collingwood, especially given our bad public record in this area, dating back to Nicky Winmar etc.
I'm not suggesting at all that there is anything wrong or suss about Rendell, merely that, rightly or wrongly, I suspect his appointment would not have been well received at the time in the Aboriginal community.
It's now good that we have an Indigenous board member, but our club has about three decades of bad press in this area to overcome, if we are to be considered a safe and supportive destination club for Indigenous talent. |
|
|
|
 |
think positive 
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
|
| Post subject: | |
|
| Dark Beanie wrote: | All this discussion because Richmond won and have indigenous players in their team.
Diversity is good, tokenism is not.
If you read past threads some posters think Trav Varcoe is past it. But hey just keep in the list because of his colour. |
Great post
_________________
You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
|
|
|
|
Mr Miyagi
Joined: 14 Sep 2018
|
| Post subject: | |
|
Agree with Rudeboy.
Accusations we're too "white bread" really annoy me. We had Kale Kirby and only lost him due to his heart condition. We got Quaynor and Atu. So we could have had Kirby, Varcoe, Wells, Quaynor and Atu this season. Yeah Wells has retired, and Varcs is near the end. But geez, we're hardly white bread.
Didn't Leon once take umbrage about the "indigenous magic" tag and said they were no more special than any other player? |
|
|
|
|
PolarPie
Joined: 25 Sep 2018
|
| Post subject: | |
|
What a ridiculous thread.
Derek Hine and Ned Guy aren’t racist so implying we need to recruit more of a certain heritage is claiming that we should bypass best available options and recruit an aboriginal player simply because other teams have them does that mean we are ahead of the curve having an African player a lot of clubs don’t?
By claiming we need to recruit more aboriginal players because some clubs have more is discrimination based on tokenism. To pick apart every draft pick or trade to try and find something to fit your agenda is weak at best.
A large number never play so when throwing out numbers let’s see success rate from the 10% academies and CatB all help with numbers.
Personally I don’t care what nationality any player we get is as long as it is best fit for what we need so please let’s not stereotype that all Aborigines play a certain way clearing the way for automatic selections in drafts.
People can see they aren’t calling the club racist but then proceed to point out we have low numbers. I am sorry to say anything other than saying we should chase certain skill sets screams tokenism and I can assure you the club takes into account the go home factor which is very strong for aboriginal players as well as all other factors. Seriously disappointing reading some want heritage agenda based recruiting. |
|
|
|
|
bally12 
Joined: 30 Sep 2010
|
| Post subject: | |
|
| Quote: | | Derek Hine and Ned Guy aren’t racist |
No but we have Matt Rendell in our recruitment team, who was famously called out for saying he was averse to recruiting indigenous players when he was Adelaide. I believe that was the catalyst for him leaving that club.
Interestingly we have recruited his nephew, who was a basketballer, and who in my view is the worst AFL player I've ever seen. Sorry, but add the 2 together, plus the fact we had no indigenous players in the Pf, and I'm not comfortable in having Rendell at our club. |
|
|
|
|
PolarPie
Joined: 25 Sep 2018
|
| Post subject: | |
|
| bally12 wrote: | | Quote: | | Derek Hine and Ned Guy aren’t racist |
No but we have Matt Rendell in our recruitment team, who was famously called out for saying he was averse to recruiting indigenous players when he was Adelaide. I believe that was the catalyst for him leaving that club.
Interestingly we have recruited his nephew, who was a basketballer, and who in my view is the worst AFL player I've ever seen. Sorry, but add the 2 together, plus the fact we had no indigenous players in the Pf, and I'm not comfortable in having Rendell at our club. |
Now you want to label 1 member of our club a racist which I don’t agree with but the point of this thread was about our whole club unless you believe he overrides Ned Guy and Hines both above him leading to some wanting more aboriginal players. It’s a load of rubbish we have two older players in Wells and Varcoe one paid well as still wanted at his previous club and Varcoe traded in from Geelong also a hunted man. Add to that Kirby that retired at the end on last year due to his heart nothing to do with the club and 2 African players in Quaynor and Atu Bosenavulagi we have 5 Black heritage players over the stated 10% other clubs have in Aboriginal players.
Or are we pretending no is only racist if you don’t have certain origins for black players now??? Please come on be sensible. |
|
|
|
|
bally12
Joined: 30 Sep 2010
|
| Post subject: | |
|
| PolarPie wrote: | | bally12 wrote: | | Quote: | | Derek Hine and Ned Guy aren’t racist |
No but we have Matt Rendell in our recruitment team, who was famously called out for saying he was averse to recruiting indigenous players when he was Adelaide. I believe that was the catalyst for him leaving that club.
Interestingly we have recruited his nephew, who was a basketballer, and who in my view is the worst AFL player I've ever seen. Sorry, but add the 2 together, plus the fact we had no indigenous players in the Pf, and I'm not comfortable in having Rendell at our club. |
Now you want to label 1 member of our club a racist which I don’t agree with but the point of this thread was about our whole club unless you believe he overrides Ned Guy and Hines both above him leading to some wanting more aboriginal players. It’s a load of rubbish we have two older players in Wells and Varcoe one paid well as still wanted at his previous club and Varcoe traded in from Geelong also a hunted man. Add to that Kirby that retired at the end on last year due to his heart nothing to do with the club and 2 African players in Quaynor and Atu Bosenavulagi we have 5 Black heritage players over the stated 10% other clubs have in Aboriginal players.
Or are we pretending no is only racist if you don’t have certain origins for black players now??? Please come on be sensible. |
It's a thread about our lack of indigenous players and it just so happens we have a recruiter universally shunned for comments he made in the past in relation to his reluctance to recruit indigenous players. You can't possibly say it's not a relevant point in this discussion.
Collingwood knew when hiring Rendell, of the sensitive nature of the appointment. All eyes would have been on his next recruiting decisions. Years down the track, and we don't have indigenous players playing i for us, while in opposition sides they are starring in Grand Finals.
I think it's a valid question to put to the club.
For the record, I don't believe Rendell isi racist. I do however think we could do more to uncover indigenous talent. I'm more critical of Rendell that we have his nephew on our list, a player no other team would have even considered recruiting in their wildest dreams. So what does that say about our professionalism as a club? Seems like jobs for the boys, mates looking after each other. That's taking side-by-side to a different level. That's another topic anyway. |
|
|
|
|
think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
|
| Post subject: | |
|
this thread is embarrassing!
bloody hell guys get a grip! its going to be a bloody long off season!
_________________
You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
|
|
|
|
Doug44
Joined: 28 Sep 2018
|
| Post subject: | |
|
| RudeBoy wrote: | Let's be clear, it's not about recruiting Indigenous players because they are Indigenous. Rather, it's about us potentially missing out on recruiting really talented players, because we seem to be averse to recruiting Indigenous players.
The worrying fact is that a member of our recruiting department, Matthew Rendell, was sacked by the Crows several years ago after being accused of declaring that he would only consider recruiting Indigenous players who had at least one white parent!
These comments raised a shit storm at the time, and a public spat between Rendell and the AFL's then Indigenous relations officer, which is why I was surprised when he ended up at Collingwood, especially given our bad public record in this area, dating back to Nicky Winmar etc.
I'm not suggesting at all that there is anything wrong or suss about Rendell, merely that, rightly or wrongly, I suspect his appointment would not have been well received at the time in the Aboriginal community.
It's now good that we have an Indigenous board member, but our club has about three decades of bad press in this area to overcome, if we are to be considered a safe and supportive destination club for Indigenous talent. |
On the money Rude Boy.
And again, to counter the "best player available" argument, we're clearly not doing that. It's obvious that with the exception of Kirby, we don't draft indigenous talent. So we're overlooking players who make up 10% of the AFL population. Varcoe and Wells were not drafted, so they were more list management decisions than recruitment decisions.
And even Kirby had played a season of VFL for Richmond, so it was a little bit different.
Even Krakouer, who we should be commended for "taking a chance on", was a former AFL player, so like Varcoe and Wells was more a list management / football department decision than a recruitment decision, and, pre dates Rendell.
If we really did pick the best players available, we'd have drafted more than just Kirby in recent years. 10% works out to be one every two years (around 5 picks a year, 1 in 10 is 1 in two years).
That does not mean we should make a point of drafting an indigenous player every two years, it shouldn't have to come to that. But if we really did pick the best player available to us, the law of averages would state that it would happen organically.
Unfortunately, given the awful look it would be to have no indigenous players next year, I personally do think we have to keep Varcoe on (I do happen to think there's a case to keep him anyway, I think he should have played in the prelim), and make a point of drafting at least one indigenous player.
I am not saying the club is racist, in recent times that couldn't be any further from the truth. People keep siting Atu and IQ, this is not the issue. The issue is the bad look of not having a single indigenous player, and, how this actually does affect our performance. It's almost like having a 10% handicap. |
|
|
|
|
watt price tully 
Joined: 15 May 2007
|
| Post subject: | |
|
| bally12 wrote: | | PolarPie wrote: | | bally12 wrote: | | Quote: | | Derek Hine and Ned Guy aren’t racist |
No but we have Matt Rendell in our recruitment team, who was famously called out for saying he was averse to recruiting indigenous players when he was Adelaide. I believe that was the catalyst for him leaving that club.
Interestingly we have recruited his nephew, who was a basketballer, and who in my view is the worst AFL player I've ever seen. Sorry, but add the 2 together, plus the fact we had no indigenous players in the Pf, and I'm not comfortable in having Rendell at our club. |
Now you want to label 1 member of our club a racist which I don’t agree with but the point of this thread was about our whole club unless you believe he overrides Ned Guy and Hines both above him leading to some wanting more aboriginal players. It’s a load of rubbish we have two older players in Wells and Varcoe one paid well as still wanted at his previous club and Varcoe traded in from Geelong also a hunted man. Add to that Kirby that retired at the end on last year due to his heart nothing to do with the club and 2 African players in Quaynor and Atu Bosenavulagi we have 5 Black heritage players over the stated 10% other clubs have in Aboriginal players.
Or are we pretending no is only racist if you don’t have certain origins for black players now??? Please come on be sensible. |
It's a thread about our lack of indigenous players and it just so happens we have a recruiter universally shunned for comments he made in the past in relation to his reluctance to recruit indigenous players. You can't possibly say it's not a relevant point in this discussion.
Collingwood knew when hiring Rendell, of the sensitive nature of the appointment. All eyes would have been on his next recruiting decisions. Years down the track, and we don't have indigenous players playing i for us, while in opposition sides they are starring in Grand Finals.
I think it's a valid question to put to the club.
For the record, I don't believe Rendell isi racist. I do however think we could do more to uncover indigenous talent. I'm more critical of Rendell that we have his nephew on our list, a player no other team would have even considered recruiting in their wildest dreams. So what does that say about our professionalism as a club? Seems like jobs for the boys, mates looking after each other. That's taking side-by-side to a different level. That's another topic anyway. |
Your opinion on Jack Madgen is yours but ill informed. He had a very good year this year and was unlucky not to play more. His first match was against Buddy Franklin. To say he is the worst is complete rubbish. Watch his matches this year on replay and you’ll change your opinion.
_________________
“I even went as far as becoming a Southern Baptist until I realised they didn’t keep ‘em under long enough” Kinky Friedman |
|
|
|
|
thesoretoothsayer
Joined: 26 Apr 2017
|
| Post subject: | |
|
| Quote: | | Unfortunately, given the awful look it would be to have no indigenous players next year, I personally do think we have to keep Varcoe on... |
Unbelievable.
Imagine the conversation.
"Trav, we don't think you're good enough to play AFL anymore but, don't worry, we're keeping you on the list because we need a few black faces in the team photo". |
|
|
|
|
Doug44
Joined: 28 Sep 2018
|
| Post subject: | |
|
| thesoretoothsayer wrote: | | Quote: | | Unfortunately, given the awful look it would be to have no indigenous players next year, I personally do think we have to keep Varcoe on... |
Unbelievable.
Imagine the conversation.
"Trav, we don't think you're good enough to play AFL anymore but, don't worry, we're keeping you on the list because we need a few black faces in the team photo". |
No need to be childish. If you don't think this is an issue that's your opinion and you're entitled to it but it is an issue to most whether you like it or not.
And again, it has nothing to do with skin colour. |
|
|
|
|
Doug44
Joined: 28 Sep 2018
|
| Post subject: | |
|
| thesoretoothsayer wrote: | | Quote: | | Unfortunately, given the awful look it would be to have no indigenous players next year, I personally do think we have to keep Varcoe on... |
Unbelievable.
Imagine the conversation.
"Trav, we don't think you're good enough to play AFL anymore but, don't worry, we're keeping you on the list because we need a few black faces in the team photo". |
Also interesting that this was the only part of what I said that you seem to have taken objection to, so I'll let that speak for itself.
I also did say that I think we should keep Varcoe on anyway, regardless of this issue. |
|
|
|
|
woftam 
I used to be undecided, but now I'm not so sure.
Joined: 28 Jul 2008
Location: Carum Downs, Vic
|
| Post subject: | |
|
| Who is Rendell's nephew that is being discussed here? |
|
|
|
|
thesoretoothsayer
Joined: 26 Apr 2017
|
| Post subject: | |
|
^ You argued that Trav should be retained because of his ethnicity.
You then qualified this by saying that you think he should be retained anyways.
But, you did argue he should be retained because of his ethnicity. |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum
|
|
The Rules
FAQ
Usergroups
Calendar
Search
Log in
Register
