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What must we do to be best?

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Doug44 



Joined: 28 Sep 2018


PostPosted: Sat Oct 12, 2019 3:30 pm
Post subject: Reply with quote

magpieazza wrote:
Its funny how the media hyped up our "best ever" midfield and yet that is where we lost the PF


Sometimes your strength can be your weakness. Because it's your strength, everything else relies upon it succeeding, and if it fails, everything else fails.

The thing about footy is it is a true team game. It's not like cricket where a good top 6 on paper is a good top 6 in practice.

Our midfield is great on paper and for most part is good in practice too. But there perhaps isn't as much diversity there as the great midfields looking back through recent history, like Brisbane 01-03. No two players in that team were the same.

We're a bit same-same, a lot of ball winners, but only really one inside player in Adams. We all know De Goey needs to spend more time in the middle, but guess what, last year he was injured! Even when he was playing he was injured.

All roads lead back to that. Fix that, we fix everything else.

Get De Goey in the middle at centre bounces then pushing forward like Dusty, we're a seriously better side.

Take Martin out of Richmond's they're back with the pack.
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PyreneesPie Pisces

PyreneesPie


Joined: 22 Aug 2014


PostPosted: Sun Oct 13, 2019 12:25 pm
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Doug44 wrote:
RudeBoy wrote:
If we want to win another flag we need to improve our list. It's that simple.


I agree with the sentiment of the article. But I don't agree that out list is the problem, it's our injuries.

Yes, GWS had injuries too, but I mean it as more of an explanation for our season where we never really got going. I was at peace with the prelim after watching the Grand Final. We would have been thrashed. Psychologically, I think that would have put us back a few years, like after 03. Losing a prelim like that, might have hurt more at the time because for two weeks we probably thought we were making another Grand Final, but it's something we can bounce back from. If we have a full list, or closer to it than we have had for some time.

The injury thing can go both ways. You could say it's an excuse used by supporters who are too excusing.

Or, you could say the failure of the club to act on it, when we have known anecdotally for years that the surface at the Holden Centre is too hard and is probably a factor, is symptomatic of a club that is overly content with itself.

Or whatever the reasons are, we need to be better.

We've told ourselves, and anyone who is listening, that we're the biggest sporting club in Australia. Well, not any more we're not, not in virtually any measure. Richmond have more members, arguably more supporters, and have had more recent success.

I think our social media numbers are better so you could argue that suggests we have more supporters, but as someone who lives in the inner East, Richmond are genuinely gaining more supporters, not just converting their existing supporter base into members better than us.

We've turned a corner post the review, but I hope that doesn't just play into the same contentment that lead to the need for the review in the first place.

No organisation should be content with the sheer number of injuries we have had this decade.


Excellent post IMHO Doug 44. I really find it hard to understand why the club is not doing everything in its power to arrest the injury rate, especially the soft tissue dramas, and making it clear to its supporters that it is doing so.

It's a wonder that Bucks isn't getting mightily peeved off himself at injuries continually preventing the team from doing what it could. (Maybe Eddie has fobbed him off the way he deals so arrogantly with anyone who dares raise the issue??). There seems to be a strange complacency from the Board that "she'll be right" and the assumption that long-suffering supporters will continue to just put up with it.
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PyreneesPie Pisces

PyreneesPie


Joined: 22 Aug 2014


PostPosted: Sun Oct 13, 2019 12:28 pm
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Doug44 wrote:


All roads lead back to that. Fix that, we fix everything else.

Get De Goey in the middle at centre bounces then pushing forward like Dusty, we're a seriously better side.

Take Martin out of Richmond's they're back with the pack.


Absolutely agree once again Doug44. Imagine the difference last season if JDG and Darcy too had been available throughout. The difference a fit Martin makes to Richmond is obvious to all.
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cressyg 



Joined: 16 Feb 2015


PostPosted: Sun Oct 13, 2019 2:44 pm
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Our injury profile within our list is a real concern and a review of our HP Unit needs to bee considered.

This year we had 19 players on our playing list miss 5 or more games.

However there are a group of players that are regularly injured each year. Over the past 4 years:
Elliott has missed 61 games as a result of injury
Scharenberg has missed 56 games as a result of injury
Wells missed 54 games as a result of injury (in 3 years)
Langdon has missed 46 games as a result of injury
Reid has missed 43 games as a result of injury
Aish has missed 38 games as a result of injury
Dunn has missed 36 games as a result of injury (in 2 years)
Moore has missed 30 games as a result of injury
De Goey has missed 24 games as a result of injury
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Rogue2k0 



Joined: 21 Feb 2018


PostPosted: Sun Oct 13, 2019 9:21 pm
Post subject: Re: What must we do to be best?Reply with quote

Harrysz wrote:
Last year we almost won a Grand Final.

This year we almost won a Preliminary Final.

We're clearly good enough to be a top 4 side. What must we do to reach that pinnacle? Trade? Train harder? Change the game plan?

We won the same number of games as last year. Bux says he thinks we've improved, because we had a much tougher draw this year than last year. Still, I think we have to develop more consistency and somehow find a way to take more advantage of Grundy's ruck dominance. Oh, and a bit more luck with injuries would be nice.

Thoughts?


Train Harder - NO - the reason why players wanted to leave the club, and why we had so many injuries, Grundy stated this in the Collingwood documentary - Buckley's only response to losing was to train harder, which made the players hate the club and the coach. Richmond players consistently stated after GF that they had fun at the club.

Trade - YES - Need a Tall BIG Bodied forward who can bring the ball to ground, take 2-3 opponents, hit and crash through packs, also need a replacement for Varcoe (Tippungwutti type - fast and tackler) and also another Wells / Marlion Pickett type - clean, quick, efficient disposal.

Game Plan - Regular season, we scored more than Richmond, we defended better than Richmond - yet didn't do as well in the finals - where Richmond kicked 27 goals more than the opposition (we kicked 6 points more than opposition) - So needs tweaking - especially the slow, chip, chip style

Personally I reckon the 3 areas we need MAJOR fixing in are Recruiting, Medical and Development.

Recruiting - have given away all our draft picks for players who cannot get on the field, have drafted players who are injury prone, draft players from overseas or who have not played enough Football to warrant selection, recruit too many similar type of players, failure to recruit QUALITY Talls

Medical - The amount and length of Injuries and the repetitive nature a major worry - 16-20 players at the same time consistently throughout the last 3-4 years a serious concern.

Development - The fact that Buckley consistently plays the same 22-25 players a worry (was different in 2018 - played virtually everyone, which kept players on their toes), and also the fact that players like Daicos, Appleby, Quaynor, Keane, Tohill, Bosenavulagi, Crocker, Murphy and especially LYNCH cannot even get a game when so many injured, means we are not developing players properly. Our VFL coaching also a major worry when teams like Richmond, Geelong, Bulldogs, Essendon are generally in VFL finals - and we always struggle (in part to injuries), but quality and consistency of players is not there, due to lack of development.

Hoping Hocking as the new VFL coach will improve this?
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Doug44 



Joined: 28 Sep 2018


PostPosted: Mon Oct 14, 2019 11:30 am
Post subject: Re: What must we do to be best?Reply with quote

Rogue2k0 wrote:
Hoping Hocking as the new VFL coach will improve this?


Big fan of this. Having a VFL side that is winning makes such a difference.

Part of that is not having a long injury list so you have more AFL listed players available.

But it is a different style of football, and I was never a fan of having a project/novice coach as VFL coach. Hocking is a better fit.
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Pebbles Rocks 



Joined: 28 Sep 2008
Location: Collingwood

PostPosted: Mon Oct 14, 2019 1:42 pm
Post subject: Re: What must we do to be best?Reply with quote

Rogue2k0 wrote:



Personally I reckon the 3 areas we need MAJOR fixing in are Recruiting, Medical and Development.



Personally I would rate our recruiting and development to be at the top end over the last few years. No problems here.

Recruitment is always easy to criticise in hindsight but overall i think we hold our own here. Sometimes you need to look at how many hits and misses other clubs have to realise this.

Development is good too. There will always be players that dont stack up no matter how hard you try.

Injuries have smashed us and this can impact on how the other two issues appear.

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Rogue2k0 



Joined: 21 Feb 2018


PostPosted: Tue Oct 15, 2019 4:24 pm
Post subject: Re: What must we do to be best?Reply with quote

Pebbles Rocks wrote:

Personally I would rate our recruiting and development to be at the top end over the last few years. No problems here.


Not sure how we are at the top end for recruitment and development, especially over last 2-3 years?

Recruitment of Wells and Beams - while great players in their prime, were/are too old and injury prone, and trade picks for Beams way too much. Roughead - a TICK, Lynden Dunn - a Failure because he wasn't there (in Finals) when he was needed due to injury.

Murphy, Appleby, Madgen, Bosenavulagi, Tohill, Keane - might be lucky to get 20-25 senior games between them (IRISH recruits just don't work at Collingwood - other than Marty Clark (1st period at club)

Tyler Brown looks like a gun if injury free - father/son a no brainer
Quaynor - too soon to tell
Will Kelly - Injury prone and too soon to tell
Noble - not sure why we recruited him - too similar to other players at the time.
Tom Wilson ?????? - Not even on Collingwood Website - does he exist?
Wills - finally gets some games and when he does, wants to leave the club due to lack of opportunity - because NAMED players get games over those who deserve it.

Other than Stephenson - who clearly has the skill to be a great player - VERY Poor 2nd year in comparison to 1st, and Callum Brown - who else has played or pushed for selection in the Seniors?

In 2018 every rookie played a Senior game (Lynch the Only Player who did not), in 2019 - Quaynor and Noble were the only 2 1st year players to play a game and LYNCH who is in his 3rd year still has not played a senior game. Grundy played 7 in his 1st year and 41 in his 1st 3 years.

Players like Daicos, Crocker, Murphy, Appleby, Broomhead, Quaynor - cannot get more than 2 games in a row, and when they do, it is due to injuries and lack of other players.

More senior players are played consistently when they are out of form, due to lack of talent pushing for senior selection.

Players like Thomas, Hoskin-Elliott (no pre season but played last 17 games - that was his pre-season before 2 Finals), Varcoe, Beams, Elliott throughout most of the season - good towards end, Aish, Callum Brown, Phillips and even Sidebottom to a degree (had 4x 30+ possession games this year to 13 last year - including 2x 40+). Most of these players wouldn't have been playing the amount of senior games they did, if there was somebody better.

Yes we can argue that injuries played a major part of the reason why there was nobody available, but the same happened in 2018 - and we had 1st year players play more games.
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K 



Joined: 09 Sep 2011


PostPosted: Tue Oct 15, 2019 5:28 pm
Post subject: Re: What must we do to be best?Reply with quote

Rogue2k0 wrote:
...
Noble - not sure why we recruited him - too similar to other players at the time.
...

He's the fastest player on the list, and the list lacks pace.
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tbaker 



Joined: 02 Jul 2018
Location: Q19 Southern Stand MCG

PostPosted: Tue Oct 15, 2019 11:34 pm
Post subject: Re: What must we do to be best?Reply with quote

K wrote:
Rogue2k0 wrote:
...
Noble - not sure why we recruited him - too similar to other players at the time.
...

He's the fastest player on the list, and the list lacks pace.

Yeah, give Noble a break - he's only played 5 or 6 games!

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princem007 



Joined: 16 Oct 2003


PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2019 12:11 am
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Win 2 more grand finals to get ahead of Carlton and Essendon. Then we will be undisputed kings of AFL.

Most flags and most GF appearances and Carlton supporters will no longer say they have more flags than us. Oh how I would like that.

Please make it happen Bucks and Eddie !!

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Doug44 



Joined: 28 Sep 2018


PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2019 9:49 am
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princem007 wrote:
Win 2 more grand finals to get ahead of Carlton and Essendon. Then we will be undisputed kings of AFL.

Most flags and most GF appearances and Carlton supporters will no longer say they have more flags than us. Oh how I would like that.

Please make it happen Bucks and Eddie !!


Should have won 2011 and 2018. We'd already be there. At the very least one of them!
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What'sinaname Libra



Joined: 29 May 2010
Location: Living rent free

PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2019 6:29 pm
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Doug44 wrote:
princem007 wrote:
Win 2 more grand finals to get ahead of Carlton and Essendon. Then we will be undisputed kings of AFL.

Most flags and most GF appearances and Carlton supporters will no longer say they have more flags than us. Oh how I would like that.

Please make it happen Bucks and Eddie !!


Should have won 2011 and 2018. We'd already be there. At the very least one of them!


Sadly, while nearly everyone else dines out on interstate teams in a GF, it's our achilles heel. 0-4 vs interstate teams
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Presti35 Virgo

Dick Lee for Legend Status


Joined: 05 Oct 2001
Location: London, England

PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2019 6:38 pm
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What'sinaname wrote:
Sadly, while nearly everyone else dines out on interstate teams in a GF, it's our achilles heel. 0-4 vs interstate teams


0-3 isnt it?

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piedys Taurus

Heeeeeeere's Dyso!!!


Joined: 04 Sep 2003
Location: Resident Forum Psychopath since 2003

PostPosted: Thu Oct 17, 2019 6:50 pm
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Presti35 wrote:
What'sinaname wrote:
Sadly, while nearly everyone else dines out on interstate teams in a GF, it's our achilles heel. 0-4 vs interstate teams


0-3 isnt it?


0-3 is my count too; and robbed fphucking blind in two of those by maggots.

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