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Should Eddie vountarily step down now ?

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skaman Taurus

One step beyond.......


Joined: 01 Mar 2005
Location: Townsville via Melbourne

PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2019 12:49 pm
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No
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BEAMER09 



Joined: 10 Apr 2009


PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2019 7:10 pm
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tbaker wrote:
BEAMER09 wrote:
Pebbles Rocks wrote:
If Darcy Moore played in the Grand Final in 2018 we would have won that game and this chat would not be happening.
IS that Eddie's fault Darcy was injured?


No Rance No worries...

To suggest that Richmond's "injury crisis" in the finals compares to ours is laughable... Rance is the one key player they had unavailable...now how many have we had unavailable? Nowhere near one...


True and no-one suggested anything. Quote was about winning the GF related to one name in 'Darcy' and my response was also one name 'Rance'.

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BEAMER09 



Joined: 10 Apr 2009


PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2019 7:20 pm
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ThePieMind wrote:
BEAMER09 wrote:
ThePieMind wrote:
BEAMER09 wrote:


Number 1 is irrelevant, and foolish refer to this metric as a basis for action, as if somehow we can change the past. Or that it is a pointer to on-going legacy issues- when you have conveniently failed to define them.

Number 2 - in Eddies time we've improved our strike rate of flags to GF's compared to period before his appointments. Most Presidents promise, but never see a flag. When you find a President that can guarantee more flags then let me know.

Number 3 - If you are complaining that we have no chance of winning a flag under Buckley then you must have been asleep the last 2 years.


Amazing how you can defy or question 'facts'...




You have a very simplistic view - to a very complex topic.
If you’re going to ask a question then expect a complete answer, and if that doesn’t suit your agenda, then that’s unfortunate.


We all want the same thing.

It is a simple view because it's based on facts. It's a very complex topic and I agree as from 2020 it's all based on opinions and assumptions.

For McGuire's sake, the next 'upto' 3-5 years will be important as history might not be kind to him unless the club delivers (yep IMO).

Now let me get back to my rock...


Respectfully - we don’t want the same thing.
You want Eddie/club to be accountable for a 60 year history largely beyond their control.

On contrary I couldn’t care less about the past 60 years because they are completely irrelevant to our future success.[/quote]

Correct - the club should be accountable for the last 61 years as they should be (Eddie last 21 years).

Of course it's irrelevant to our future but then again, I hate to be saying 2 in 70 years...

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Lazza 



Joined: 04 Feb 2003
Location: Bendigo, Victoria, Australia

PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2019 11:57 am
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Currently 4 in 66 sounds better but if we weren’t a cursed club, it would have been much better. A curse sounds better than saying bad luck, cheating umpires, AFL conspiracies etc., not that I disbelieve them but it’s more experienced based than solid irrefutable evidence based. My thoughts on the AFL and umpires I will take to my grave to prevent comments about me making excuses, whinging, blaming the wrong people etc. At my age I saw what I saw and only us older posters like the fabulous Piesnchess, Jofra and Member (btw) where is he?) will empathise and understand what I mean.🥺🙄🙄
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Piesnchess 

piesnchess


Joined: 09 Jun 2008


PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2019 1:44 pm
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Lazza wrote:
Currently 4 in 66 sounds better but if we weren’t a cursed club, it would have been much better. A curse sounds better than saying bad luck, cheating umpires, AFL conspiracies etc., not that I disbelieve them but it’s more experienced based than solid irrefutable evidence based. My thoughts on the AFL and umpires I will take to my grave to prevent comments about me making excuses, whinging, blaming the wrong people etc. At my age I saw what I saw and only us older posters like the fabulous Piesnchess, Jofra and Member (btw) where is he?) will empathise and understand what I mean.🥺🙄🙄


Lazza, comrade, u an I both know we should have at bare minimum 20 Premierships, at least, but have been denied by cheating umps, ala last season, rotten bad luck, curses, cockups, stuff ups, and all else that had haunted us for decades now, bloody decades of lost GFs. Thank heavens we did not lost another one this yr, NO side would have beaten the Tigers that day, not us with our injury plagued team, and no side id hate losing a GF too more than Richmond, aside from the Blue scum. !! Surprised Rolling Eyes

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Pebbles Rocks 



Joined: 28 Sep 2008
Location: Collingwood

PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2019 2:03 pm
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Firstly, my greatest criticism of Eddie is the nepotism he displayed in how Bucks was appointed. We have to concede that Bucks has turned out to be a coach nearly all of us are proud of but it was messy and in hindsight Bucks was not the right man given his tendancy to be a control freak at the time.

However, without Eddie we would not have secured Malthouse so who knows what would have happened had he not been there....

Every president aspires to be successful and win premierships. The fact that Eddie aspires to this level is not unusual and nor should it be held against him.

The fact is we are perennial underachievers at the pointy end is not really something you can criticise a President for? By any measure, making a Grand Final means you have done a lot of things right. We have done it 5 times in 21 years (excluding the draw).
We lost 2 of those by less than a kick and in 2011 we were cruelled by injury to Reid and Jolly.

The financial state of the club, its values and its contribution to sport and the community is as good as you could wish for which have in large part been inspired by Eddie.

I suspect most of you who want him gone have never sat on a board let alone the Collingwood board and your opinion is narrowed to one KPI - 'Premierships'.

Food for thought...if you are a leader of a large group, and that group does not beat all of its peers in a given year (in this case 17 others), does that mean you are not the best person for the job?

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Pies2016 



Joined: 12 Sep 2014


PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2019 2:26 pm
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^ ^ ^

Good measured post P R .
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joffa corfe 

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Joined: 13 Nov 2003


PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2019 7:34 pm
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I feel very sad that some of my fellow supporters are attacking Ed Sad
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K 



Joined: 09 Sep 2011


PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2019 7:37 pm
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Joffa, I have not read most of this thread, but some Nicksters expressing the opinion that it may not be best for the club to have a president for life is not the same thing as them attacking him.

Remember that one of the recommendations of the Murphy review (all of which the club claimed they would implement) was fixed terms for all Board members (which is what they have at other clubs, like Hawthorn).
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Dr Pie 

Dr Pie


Joined: 08 Nov 2007


PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2019 11:04 pm
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There is a reason why most organisations, political and business as well as sporting, change their leaders after 5-10 years. After a while leaders develop the delusion that they are irreplaceable, that they alone know what's good for the organisation and in the end some are unable to distinguish their private interests from those of their organisations.

Eddie was terrific for the club in his first decade. He is obviously still doing good things for the club but there have been some pretty big mistakes in his second decade at the helm. I don't want to rake over old history but the "succession plan" cost us dearly. It almost certainly cost us the 2011 Premiership. Malthouse obviously was also to blame but if Malthouse had believed he had a future at the club he would have made better decisions in 2011.

The succession agreement also delayed Buckley's development as a coach. He himself had earlier said that he wanted to be an assistant at another club to gain different perspectives and learn from a different culture. If he had spent two years as assistant to Clarkson, Longmire or Roos he would have returned to Collingwood as a better coach. He is now a very good coach but he could have reached his current level several years earlier if he had had a wider range of experience.

Most of Eddie's other actual mistakes relate to misjudgements shooting his mouth off on radio, some have been referred to already in this thread. As someone who has studied both sports history and political history I really think 21 years is too long for anyone to remain leader of anything important. Eddie's supporters are right that the President has no direct control over what happens on match day but they do control the general direction of the club and there are few clubs that win multiple premierships without strong leadership off the field.

In a club with over 70,000 members I find it hard to believe that we only have one member with appropriate skills to lead the organisation.

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BEAMER09 



Joined: 10 Apr 2009


PostPosted: Fri Oct 11, 2019 7:01 am
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Regarding your comments about the 'succession plan' - you are bang on, 100%, spot on and absolutely CORRECT!!!.
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ThePieMind 



Joined: 11 Apr 2009


PostPosted: Fri Oct 11, 2019 9:28 am
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Selective memory - the succession plan gave us a flag. The plan was based on MM staying.
MM walking out and not to honouring his part of the deal meant the succession plan ended at that point.
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BEAMER09 



Joined: 10 Apr 2009


PostPosted: Fri Oct 11, 2019 9:58 am
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talking 2011 as in back to back...
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Dr Pie 

Dr Pie


Joined: 08 Nov 2007


PostPosted: Fri Oct 11, 2019 11:44 am
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I'm not the one with selective memory. The succession plan was not aimed at holding Mick, it was aimed making sure Bucks did not leave Collingwood. Mick certainly reneged on his part of the deal, but that was because it was a deal that he never really supported. He felt it was forced on him and he was right. Eddie should have realised that. Succession plans only work when the person leaving is ready to go. Ask Paul Keating or Peter Costello. They thought that they had made deals to succeed their predecessors also. Menzies to Holt, Kennedy to Parkin, Parkin to Brittain, Roos to Longmire are among the few transfers of political or football power that worked because in each case the incumbent wanted to leave and the new man was his chosen successor. (Parkin to Brittain didn't work but that was because Britten wasn't good enough as a coach not because Parkin didn't want to leave a la Malthouse)
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K 



Joined: 09 Sep 2011


PostPosted: Fri Oct 11, 2019 11:45 am
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Dr Pie wrote:
There is a reason why most organisations, political and business as well as sporting, change their leaders after 5-10 years. After a while leaders develop the delusion that they are irreplaceable, that they alone know what's good for the organisation and in the end some are unable to distinguish their private interests from those of their organisations.
...

And it's the reason they have term limits, just as the review recommended.

In refusing to talk about that recommendation and hoping everyone will just forget, our club has shown itself to be very unprofessional.
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