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Skids 
Quitting drinking will be one of the best choices you make in your life.
Joined: 11 Sep 2007
Location: Joined 3/6/02 . Member #175
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| Post subject: Public funding for places of worship |  |
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Victorian government donates $400,000 of taxpayer money for the construction of a new mosque
“Do state governments normally give $400,000 to help build houses of worship?” James Morrow, opinion editor at the Daily Telegraph tweeted.
“There’s only 466 Muslims in Bendigo,” Avi Yemini of TR News said. “That’s almost $1,000 per head. Cost of appeasement.”
So, the Victorian government don’t have the funds or resources to ensure innocent civilians at a fun run aren’t maimed and murdered by Islamic terrorists, but somehow have hundreds of thousands of dollars to throw at the construction of a new mega-mosque?
https://caldronpool.com/victorian-government-donates-400000-of-taxpayer-money-for-the-construction-of-a-new-mosque/
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David 
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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| Quote: | | “Do state governments normally give $400,000 to help build houses of worship?” James Morrow, opinion editor at the Daily Telegraph tweeted. |
Oh gee, I dunno. Could the answer possibly be yes?
https://sydneyanglicans.net/news/sixty-one-churches-receive-government-grants
| Quote: | Sydney Anglican Parishes Are among many not-for-profit and community organisations that have benefited from the latest round of community Building partnership (CBP) grants, with 61 parish projects successfully obtaining grants totalling over $1.2 million.
The CBP, administered by the NSW Government, provides funds towards the purchase or maintenance of capital works that provide community services, including the work of many churches. |
The most recent round of CBP grants in NSW (where The Daily Telegraph is published, meaning its opinion editor might conceivably be aware of the existence of such grants, if he ever does some research in-between whingeing on Twitter about PC gone mad) are listed here:
https://www.nsw.gov.au/improving-nsw/projects-and-initiatives/community-building-partnership/2018-community-building-partnership-grants/
Some 2018 highlights (I only got up to electorates starting with M):
Uniting Church in Australia Property Trust [NSW] on behalf of The Mustard Seed Faith Community: Restore Church Steeple: $35,000.00
Castle Hill Community Church: Refurbishment of Auditorium Flooring: $40,000.00
Anglican Church Property Trust Diocese of Sydney: Church Hall Air Conditioning: $61,325.00
Anglican Church Property Trust Diocese of Sydney: Christ Church Gladesville - Roof Restoration: $62,535.00
Greek Orthodox Church & Parish of St Demetrios Queanbeyan: St Demetrios Community Hall Upgrades: $75,000.00
Church of Christ Fairfield: Pergola Supported on Reinforced Concrete Slab for Community Recreational: $97,650.00
Obviously these are mostly renovations, whereas the construction of an entire building from scratch will require far greater funds. But let's at least stop pretending that state government funding for houses of worship is somehow unusual.
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roar
Joined: 01 Sep 2004
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It's not unusual but it is ridiculous that the government provides funding for churches/mosques/synagogues.
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kill for collingwood! |
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watt price tully 
Joined: 15 May 2007
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Stupid thread & the Mods should pull it. The only reason it's up here is because of Skids's dislike of Muslims - end of story. He thought he found something like a 'gotchya' moment but as usual it backfired when basic cursory research by David shows how stupid the thread is.
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“I even went as far as becoming a Southern Baptist until I realised they didn’t keep ‘em under long enough” Kinky Friedman |
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stui magpie 
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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| roar wrote: | | It's not unusual but it is ridiculous that the government provides funding for churches/mosques/synagogues. |
Completely agree. Places of worship don't need to be fancy or expensive and shouldn't get any government funding.
Case in point, this little weatherboard church up in Toc which I got married in.
https://www.churchesaustralia.org/list-of-churches/denominations/uniting-church-in-australia/directory/3423-tocumwal-uniting-church
Built around 1890, still standing and smaller than the rumpus room in my house.
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Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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Skids
Quitting drinking will be one of the best choices you make in your life.
Joined: 11 Sep 2007
Location: Joined 3/6/02 . Member #175
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| watt price tully wrote: | | Stupid thread & the Mods should pull it. The only reason it's up here is because of Skids's dislike of Muslims - end of story. He thought he found something like a 'gotchya' moment but as usual it backfired when basic cursory research by David shows how stupid the thread is. |
Stupid?
They gave $1.2 million to 61 churches and 30% of that to build ONE mosque.
Wonder how much christian churches get granted in Islamic countries?
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Don't count the days, make the days count. |
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luvdids 
Joined: 22 Mar 2008
Location: work
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| Skids wrote: | | watt price tully wrote: | | Stupid thread & the Mods should pull it. The only reason it's up here is because of Skids's dislike of Muslims - end of story. He thought he found something like a 'gotchya' moment but as usual it backfired when basic cursory research by David shows how stupid the thread is. |
Stupid?
They gave $1.2 million to 61 churches and 30% of that to build ONE mosque.
Wonder how much christian churches get granted in Islamic countries? |
Was the $1.2 million for the churches to be built?? Or for renovations? How much did the original structure cost to be built?? Or do those facts not suit your agenda?
To answer your question, yes, stupid. |
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Wokko 
Come and take it.
Joined: 04 Oct 2005
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Taxes shouldn't be used to fund religious buildings, either the building or renovating. I'd begrudgingly accept its use to help fix heritage buildings, but $400,000 on a mosque in a town with less than 500 Muslims is obscene.
Imgaine if that was to fund a Scientology centre in Melbourne, people are only defending this because they see Muslims as a persecuted minority. |
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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| Skids wrote: | | watt price tully wrote: | | Stupid thread & the Mods should pull it. The only reason it's up here is because of Skids's dislike of Muslims - end of story. He thought he found something like a 'gotchya' moment but as usual it backfired when basic cursory research by David shows how stupid the thread is. |
Stupid?
They gave $1.2 million to 61 churches and 30% of that to build ONE mosque.
Wonder how much christian churches get granted in Islamic countries? |
As noted above, these were for renovations and were therefore a fraction of the cost (though at least one of the NSW church projects I listed above received nearly $100,000 on its own). It might well be that the constructions of whole churches have also been funded (or partially funded), and that these fall outside the scope of the CBP scheme (or whatever the Victorian equivalent is) – you'd have to dig further for information on that, which you're obviously not going to be bothered to do. It could also be that, given Christianity's long foothold in Australia, there's not the same kind of community demand for the creation of new buildings. But the bottom line is that the controversy you're trying to whip up here is utterly bogus, and obviously so.
As for the non sequitur question of whether churches in Muslim-majority countries get funding, the easy answer would be that we don't live in a repressive theocracy and that that's actually a good thing. I just wish you'd have the insight to see that the reason that doesn't happen in places like Iran or Saudi Arabia (valid concerns about separation of church and state aside) is because of people like you over there, who are just as intolerant towards Christians as you are towards Muslims and would respond in equal outrage if their government gave $400,000 over to the construction of a new church. Maybe we could all actually remember to value the liberal, pluralistic democracy we live in and try not to be like that?
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All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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| Wokko wrote: | Taxes shouldn't be used to fund religious buildings, either the building or renovating. I'd begrudgingly accept its use to help fix heritage buildings, but $400,000 on a mosque in a town with less than 500 Muslims is obscene.
Imgaine if that was to fund a Scientology centre in Melbourne, people are only defending this because they see Muslims as a persecuted minority. |
Imagine that!
https://www.smh.com.au/education/public-funding-for-schools-associated-with-church-of-scientology-revealed-20160711-gq2ye7.html
| Quote: | Schools associated with the Church of Scientology are receiving more government funding per student than hundreds of Australian public schools, new data has revealed, despite benefiting from generous private donations and hundreds of thousands of dollars in school fees.
The Athena and Yarralinda schools receive a combined amount of up to $475,000 in recurrent public funding every year to educate fewer than 60 students. |
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All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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Wokko
Come and take it.
Joined: 04 Oct 2005
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| So do you support that funding David? |
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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It's a tricky one. I'm sympathetic to those who oppose government religious school funding on principle and understand how it can be seen as a vital part of separation of church and state (and I certainly opposed the chaplain program for that reason), but I do also see the benefit of government funding for community projects, many of which have traditionally been affiliated with religious groups. Clearly, this mosque is not just about the mosque itself, but about building a community hub for the region's Muslim population, who may otherwise not have that. So I can imagine there are plenty of community benefits here.
So I'm happy to sit on the fence on this one and listen to general arguments for either side. But one thing I do take a firm view on is that the issue shouldn't be selectively exploited with malign political intent, as it has been here.
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All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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watt price tully
Joined: 15 May 2007
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| David wrote: | It's a tricky one. I'm sympathetic to those who oppose government religious school funding on principle and understand how it can be seen as a vital part of separation of church and state (and I certainly opposed the chaplain program for that reason), but I do also see the benefit of government funding for community projects, many of which have traditionally been affiliated with religious groups. Clearly, this mosque is not just about the mosque itself, but about building a community hub for the region's Muslim population, who may otherwise not have that. So I can imagine there are plenty of community benefits here.
So I'm happy to sit on the fence on this one and listen to general arguments for either side. But one thing I do take a firm view on is that the issue shouldn't be selectively exploited with malign political intent, as it has been here. |
On that basis shut the stupid thread down or put it as money for religious buifdlings.
It's also stupid to say just 500 muslims and therefore,... there are regional pople who are muslim who have had nowjhere to worship. There are Muslims in towns near and far from Bendigo who will use the service, in fact there under Skids's bed as we speak.
The Mosque will also be used for community groups as well not just for prayer.
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“I even went as far as becoming a Southern Baptist until I realised they didn’t keep ‘em under long enough” Kinky Friedman |
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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^ Fair call. Done.
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All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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Skids
Quitting drinking will be one of the best choices you make in your life.
Joined: 11 Sep 2007
Location: Joined 3/6/02 . Member #175
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The other thing these 'places of worship' get is free labour from people working for the dole.
What a joke!
And WPT, I don't care if it's; christians, catholics, <snip – please avoid hate speech. Thanks, David for BBMods.>, Jehovas, Hindus or Bhudists. These fairytale organizations should not recieve one cent of public funds, nor should they be exempt from paying tax.
<snip>
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Don't count the days, make the days count. |
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