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Post Match. Pies down to Roos . All comments please.

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swooper 



Joined: 24 Sep 2002
Location: Melbourne

PostPosted: Sun Jun 30, 2019 7:00 pm
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Piesnchess wrote:
ANNODAM wrote:
swooper wrote:
I’m not angry just sad. Sad because we were 5 pts from winning a flag last year. Sad that we most likely won’t get another chance this year.




And as the years go by, people will realise more & more how this was our golden opportunity gone, lost forever...


Agreed, that was the real painful one, we had everything going for us that day, at the G, booted first 5 goals, yet still found a way to lose the unloseable GF. Had we won last yr, I would not give a damn bout this season, would hve been happy for next 3 yrs, easy, but missing our again, is a very cruel blow, I had hopes for this yr, but after yesterday, I just don't know now. Crying or Very sad Surprised


A missed opportunity for sure.... 😫
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Pies2016 



Joined: 12 Sep 2014


PostPosted: Sun Jun 30, 2019 7:43 pm
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INXS88, we are second on the ladder in a competition where upsets are no longer upsets. It was a crap performance, probably like the one where StKilda dismantled the Tigers at Etihad in their premiership year.
Quaynor, Noble, Goldsack or whoever didn’t get us to second but the current crop of players did. Daicos and Shaz were next in line and they got their chances on the back of injuries. Yet, one game later, how many people on here want to tell you that Daicos isn’t up to it.
You can’t keep bringing up VFL footballers if they aren’t dominating in that league. How can you expect them to then play better in a much tougher competition ( let alone a debutant )
Selection integrity isn’t throwing out the baby with bath water. Selection integrity is showing trust in a group which has performed admirably for 18 months and giving them the benefit of the doubt for a chance at redemption.
I’m happy to wait for the response against the Hawks. If we don’t like what we see after that, then let’s change things up.
Sometimes the most courageous decision of all, is to continue to steer the course.
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Culprit Cancer



Joined: 06 Feb 2003
Location: Port Melbourne

PostPosted: Sun Jun 30, 2019 7:47 pm
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Spin it anyway you want too but that's the lowest scoring game I have seen in a while. We were smashed. We have been playing average football for a while and it's caught up with us. We have to turn it around or the Premiership is just a dream. Stephenson being out is clearly a bad thing and I am so pissed about him being so fckn dumb. A week for the boys to look in the mirror and if we can't bounce back next week we are in trouble.
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BazBoy 



Joined: 11 Sep 2014


PostPosted: Sun Jun 30, 2019 7:47 pm
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Bucks said we never saw it coming—-we have been living in a fools paradise with sides like Carlton,Saints and Bulldogs outplaying us till we scraped wins
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inxs88 



Joined: 17 Aug 2014


PostPosted: Sun Jun 30, 2019 7:58 pm
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Pies2016 wrote:
INXS88, we are second on the ladder in a competition where upsets are no longer upsets. It was a crap performance, probably like the one where StKilda dismantled the Tigers at Etihad in their premiership year.
Quaynor, Noble, Goldsack or whoever didn’t get us to second but the current crop of players did. Daicos and Shaz were next in line and they got their chances on the back of injuries. Yet, one game later, how many people on here want to tell you that Daicos isn’t up to it.
You can’t keep bringing up VFL footballers if they aren’t dominating in that league. How can you expect them to then play better in a much tougher competition ( let alone a debutant )
Selection integrity isn’t throwing out the baby with bath water. Selection integrity is showing trust in a group which has performed admirably for 18 months and giving them the benefit of the doubt for a chance at redemption.
I’m happy to wait for the response against the Hawks. If we don’t like what we see after that, then let’s change things up.
Sometimes the most courageous decision of all, is to continue to steer the course.


You're missing the consensus viewpoint. The sample size of "14" games forms my opinion on omitting players. Hey even the Australian cricket team dumped Coulter-Nile, S Marsh and Zampa despite us winning matches.

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Last edited by inxs88 on Sun Jun 30, 2019 10:22 pm; edited 1 time in total
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BEAMER09 



Joined: 10 Apr 2009


PostPosted: Sun Jun 30, 2019 8:00 pm
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BazBoy wrote:
What I found interesting was Nathan’s admittance on Grundy

I think I was wrongfully out of character to be critical of Brody Grundy,s 1st half last week

Why would he raise that in the light of this weeks performance


Doesn't look like it's that rosy at Collingwood in the last month or so and Buck's sounds different at end of game press conferences.

It just doesn't look right, it doesn't sound right, it doesn't feel right but I guess the next 4 weeks will tell us more...

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Mr Miyagi 



Joined: 14 Sep 2018


PostPosted: Sun Jun 30, 2019 8:14 pm
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Totally agree Inxs88, except I reckon we're a chance to win 2 out of the next 4 games.

We're in the same boat as Geelong. We weren't as bad coming off that bye -- we were poor but showed heart in the final quarter to beat the dogs. Geelong got a wake up call and bounced back after that flogging. Whereas we got complacent with the dogs and thought we could skate downhill against North -- and we got our pants pulled down because of our complacency. I reckon we'll come out hard against the Hawks next week -- anything less, and they deserve to drop out of the 8.

Cox -- geez he gets pushed under the ball illegally, and probably too easily. Opposition have figured out how to do it without it looking like a blatant push. The umps obviously don't care, so time we got some crumbers around the ball -- they've been missing and were too far off the contest.
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slangman 



Joined: 11 Aug 2003


PostPosted: Sun Jun 30, 2019 8:50 pm
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BEAMER09 wrote:
BazBoy wrote:
What I found interesting was Nathan’s admittance on Grundy

I think I was wrongfully out of character to be critical of Brody Grundy,s 1st half last week

Why would he raise that in the light of this weeks performance


Doesn't look like it's that rosy at Collingwood in the last month or so and Buck's sounds different at end of game press conferences.

It just doesn't look right, it doesn't sound right, it doesn't feel right but I guess the next 4 weeks will tell us more...


Very true. I don’t know why, who or when but there is definitely an element of hubris that has infiltrated the team. When all things point to us being a serious challenger, we shoot ourselves in the foot.

Collingwood....masters at grabbing defeat from the jaws of victory.

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Woods Capricorn



Joined: 21 Aug 2013
Location: Melbourne

PostPosted: Sun Jun 30, 2019 11:05 pm
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A pretty much warts and all analysis of Collingwood’s predicament
by Michael Gleeson June 30, 2019 — 9.39pm
https://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/sport/afl/4-points-magpies-expose-their-soft-underbelly-20190630-p522qg.html

Magpies expose their soft underbelly

Nathan Buckley knew he had problems with his team but he thought there was one thing he didn’t need to worry about. That thing – the unquestioning commitment to help out a teammate – went missing on Saturday night.

The unerring commitment to be as physical as the other team wasn’t there. Seldom do you hear a coach publicly question his team, but it is hard to ignore when your team is made to look hesitant. It is unavoidable when one team tackles with their body and the other reaches gingerly with their fingers or a single arm to tackle.

These things are aberrant because we haven’t seen that reluctance to be physical from the Magpies until now. What is not aberrant is a more troubling, underlying problem. Collingwood’s vaunted strength has become its weakness. Their midfield of star names has not matched its billing.

Brodie Grundy’s outstanding season and the strength of a talented, settled backline has masked flaws in the midfield. That was stripped bare on Saturday when they were brutalised by North Melbourne. A few things conspired to deliver what was really a 15-goal loss dressed up as a seven-goal defeat. First and most importantly Collingwood’s defence, which has been its true strength, has been whittled to nothing through injury and an opposition tactical shift.

Darcy Moore’s influence has been dulled for more than a month by teams using his opponent to drag him where the ball isn’t. This was OK when Collingwood still had Tom Langdon and Jeremy Howe to roll off and intercept mark, but both were injured. Without any of Moore, Howe or Langdon’s marking they have lost the ability to re-set behind the ball. It has also meant the opposition has been able to claim territory and keep the ball trapped in Collingwood’s defence.

Matt Scharenberg was playing his first game for a year, so he needs time. James Aish, who has been good in defence, was also out so the back six looked very different.

But it is the midfield that is a worry. For some time the Magpies have struggled for contested ball and clearances in the middle. Grundy’s excellence has masked deeper problems with their on-ball makeup.

The Collingwood midfield has been billed as the best in the competition because of the impressive calibre of names but it is a midfield that was beaten in last year’s grand final, beaten by Geelong and in particular Tim Kelly in round one, and thunderously poor against North. Their stars were down. Grundy, their best player, met an opponent who could nullify or match him. The Collingwood ruckman had eight kicks, six ineffective.

Scott Pendlebury has been excellent this year but he carries a burden like Grundy to be everything. Adam Treloar has pace but lacks an appreciation of how unreliable his kicking is. His strength is bursting from a pack into space, kicking the goal from half forward, but he too often burns the ball in field play.

Steele Sidebottom, their most artful player, had 10 kicks and six of them missed targets. He has been asked to be an inside player because others are missing, but he is most effective on a wing. The on-ball balance is out. Taylor Adams is important to them because he defends and burrows in in the middle like no other midfielder they have. Without him they have too few prepared to defend at the contest and run as hard defensively.

Brayden Sier suffered an injury early which meant they lacked that aggressive first-possession player. Sier is important but has not yet returned to the levels of last year.

Dayne Beams was brought in to complement this midfield, but he has not had that impact. Beams is injured but there is a question mark over what his place is in this midfield. His form was down before injury but even at his best he does not help the blend of a midfield that is one-paced.

On the outside Tom Phillips has been inconsistent. The forwards who roll through the midfield – Josh Thomas and Jordan De Goey – had no effect on Saturday. De Goey lacks endurance to spend long periods on the ball but at the moment is needed there (and forward) because of the point of difference of being an inside/outside player with power and explosive pace.

Forward of the ball, Saturday's performance is hard to examine given Collingwood only had 35 inside 50s, but the forwards are not restricted to the arcs. They play high up the ground and bring it in and to that extent Mason Cox was, and has been this year, poor. His fondness for flying for the ball one handed is perplexing and when the ball hits the ground he displays little interest for involvement. The hunting small forwards Thomas and Travis Varcoe have been down for some time.

Jamie Elliott should be back soon. Will Hoskin-Elliott is an A-grade talent who delivered a low-grade game. Jaidyn Stephenson ought to be squirming as he watches from the sidelines.

This paints a bleak picture but there are a few things to note. Firstly, players will come back. Secondly, commitment and physical pressure are not foreign to the Magpies, they can improve on that quickly. Finally, top-four teams West Coast and GWS have been handed beltings this year, too. Geelong have not been belted but they have had surprising losses.

A bad loss does not define a season but the response to it can.
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slangman 



Joined: 11 Aug 2003


PostPosted: Sun Jun 30, 2019 11:20 pm
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Once again Michael Gleeson (a pies fan) hits the nail on the head.
A superb analysis.

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Mr Miyagi 



Joined: 14 Sep 2018


PostPosted: Sun Jun 30, 2019 11:30 pm
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slangman wrote:
BEAMER09 wrote:
BazBoy wrote:
What I found interesting was Nathan’s admittance on Grundy

I think I was wrongfully out of character to be critical of Brody Grundy,s 1st half last week

Why would he raise that in the light of this weeks performance


Doesn't look like it's that rosy at Collingwood in the last month or so and Buck's sounds different at end of game press conferences.

It just doesn't look right, it doesn't sound right, it doesn't feel right but I guess the next 4 weeks will tell us more...


Very true. I don’t know why, who or when but there is definitely an element of hubris that has infiltrated the team. When all things point to us being a serious challenger, we shoot ourselves in the foot.

Collingwood....masters at grabbing defeat from the jaws of victory.


Stephenson unsettled the team a bit more than we'd like to admit, I think. Grundy's contract too, something not right with the guy the past couple of rounds (but he's probably due for a rough patch, not many can keep that effort up week after week). We haven't looked right mentally since the shit hit the fan. If you're off your game by 5-10% mentally, that's all it takes to fall behind.

And yeah, Gleeson hit the nail right on the head, totally agree with everything he wrote.
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pietillidie 



Joined: 07 Jan 2005


PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2019 7:20 am
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Yep, Gleeson has pretty much got it in one.
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think better 



Joined: 16 May 2005
Location: Adelaide

PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2019 8:33 am
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I have a different point of view.

This could be the recession we had to have!

We haven't been great in recent weeks but still good enough to get wins. The loss stands out as a very poor effort but gives Buckley all the ammunition he needs to rev up the troops.

No-one will be happy with this loss and every player will have to wear it. The only response is to go harder and use this as a chance to draw a line in the sand about levels of performance.

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BazBoy 



Joined: 11 Sep 2014


PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2019 8:40 am
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I hope Mike is right in that we can get our grunt back and another thing I hope is we get back to one for all / all for one climate because it only needs some members of the team to opt out and embrace the precious climate and me me attitude to break down what we have built
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thesoretoothsayer 



Joined: 26 Apr 2017


PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2019 8:55 am
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Quote:
They play high up the ground and bring it in and to that extent Mason Cox was, and has been this year, poor. His fondness for flying for the ball one handed is perplexing and when the ball hits the ground he displays little interest for involvement.

Fine analysis by Gleeson.
Cox has been down on form. However, I thought his fondness for flying for the ball one handed was due to the fact his other arm is usually being held.
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