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thesoretoothsayer 



Joined: 26 Apr 2017


PostPosted: Tue Jun 25, 2019 12:28 pm
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For the folks in this thread who think that Falou is a bigot and got what he deserved, what are your thoughts about Emirates being our clubs major sponsor?
After all, Emirates is owned by the govt. of Dubai which actively persecutes homosexuals.
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Wokko Pisces

Come and take it.


Joined: 04 Oct 2005
Location: Ballarat!

PostPosted: Tue Jun 25, 2019 12:47 pm
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K wrote:
'... Law Council of Australia president Arthur Moses, SC said the company made the right move.

"Given the legal uncertainties surrounding the use of crowdfunding to raise money to support litigation, it is my view that GoFundMe took the appropriate action in cancelling Israel Folau’s fundraising campaign," Moses said.

"GoFundMe is entitled to rely on its terms and conditions in order to terminate the fundraising campaign. It is the appropriate course of action.

"The issue of crowdfunding and its application to litigation opens up a range of complex issues that the legal profession and courts must now grapple with in order to protect the public and the integrity of the administration of justice.

"The legal profession will need to consider closely establishing ethical rules and guidance for practitioners who are conducting crowdfunded litigation."
'


https://www.theage.com.au/sport/rugby-union/australian-christian-lobby-throws-100-000-into-new-folau-fund-20190624-p520ur.html


Can't have the proles fighting or winning against old money and big corporations can we? What a wanker.

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David Libra

Rose with a violent heart


Joined: 27 Jul 2003
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 25, 2019 12:59 pm
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That was my thought too, Wokko. The relationship between money and justice is a huge problem, but surely that has more to do with the fact that justice is often too expensive, not that some are able to find alternative funding methods for their cases. It's not like Rugby Australia will be short of cash for this legal battle.
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Wokko Pisces

Come and take it.


Joined: 04 Oct 2005
Location: Ballarat!

PostPosted: Tue Jun 25, 2019 1:29 pm
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I read somewhere it could send them broke, it was why they were throwing money at Folau to settle.
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Wokko Pisces

Come and take it.


Joined: 04 Oct 2005
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 25, 2019 3:54 pm
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So on the back of GoFundMe playing moral arbiter, the Australian Christian Lobby has set up a private website to donate to Izzy and it's currently sitting at $800,000 after half a day and rising.

https://www.acl.org.au/donate_izzy

Lefty idiots again forget the Streisand effect and keep loudly bleating.

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taff wa 



Joined: 20 Apr 2003


PostPosted: Tue Jun 25, 2019 4:10 pm
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So we have a multi millionaire getting donations to fund his legal battle yet there are others who are struggling. https://thenewdaily.com.au/news/2019/06/24/gofundme-israel-folau/
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Wokko Pisces

Come and take it.


Joined: 04 Oct 2005
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 25, 2019 4:21 pm
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Then donate your money to those you think deserve it. Why is personal choice and freedom so hard for people to understand?
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thesoretoothsayer 



Joined: 26 Apr 2017


PostPosted: Tue Jun 25, 2019 4:38 pm
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I can't wait for Maria Falou to run out onto a netball court and get booed.
Because we all now know that the only reason you boo a person of colour is racism.
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Morrigu Capricorn



Joined: 11 Aug 2001


PostPosted: Tue Jun 25, 2019 4:40 pm
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David wrote:
This isn't as clever a point as you may think it is. The real counterpoint to the forum rules would not be what an employee can say outside the workplace, but what they say in the workplace.

In Folau's case, if he told a gay opponent, or league employee, or locker-room cleaner that they were going to hell, I would have no opposition to Rugby Australia placing sanctions on him. The reason for that is that, just as I believe that employers shouldn't be able to exert control over what their employees do outside the workplace, I do believe that they should have the right to police, to a certain extent, what goes on within their own walls; indeed, that's precisely what codes of conduct should be for.

Most people understand, or at least used to understand, that society is made up of different sectors. As citizens, we are subject to the law of the land. If we are students, we are additionally subject to school policy on, say, wearing uniforms or talking in class. If we work in a job, we abide by a code of conduct. That doesn't mean that what's in those codes of conduct doesn't matter, or shouldn't themselves be subject to the laws of the land. Indeed, they very much should be, and the fact that workplaces sometimes come up with bad codes of conduct, or place unfair, unreasonable or unhealthy expectations on workers is why the union movement exists. Likewise, if students, parents or teachers want to complain about a school policy that they don't like, that is their right, and sometimes they will win.

Otherwise, this basic principle goes not just for workplaces, but also for all sorts of voluntary associations: if you want to set up a club that's only for socialists, Christians or cabinetmakers, that is your right. Similarly, I'm not one of those people who gets particularly outraged about the fact that Instagram and Facebook ban nudity, because that's ultimately the kind of online space that they've decided to set up. Likewise, the Nick's Bulletin Board administration and moderation team have decided that we want a space that is a) only for Collingwood supporters, b) a civil, respectful space and c) free of swearing, racism, spam advertising and so on. We know and have always accepted that these rules are stricter than those that exist out in wider society. If anyone thinks that the rules we have written down and enforced are unfair or over-the-top, they and anyone else who agrees with them are welcome to complain about it – indeed, we have a whole sub-forum (General Feedback) for that precise purpose.

Otherwise, we don't care what you post on Facebook. It's not our business as bulletin board moderators if you get road rage, or are an official paid-up member of One Nation, or even commit serial killings in your spare time – and, indeed, I (and I think everyone else on the moderation team) would strongly oppose banning any member for what they do outside of here. All we care about is maintaining this online space and keeping it a friendly and functional environment.


You are missing the point - it doesn't matter what you believe the fact is a significant number of professions including Rugby Australia have Codes of Conduct that include what an employee does or says particularly on social media at work and outside of work. I belong to a very strong union and we still have a pretty stringent Professional Code of Conduct. If you sign the employment contract then you are agreeing to abide with the terms of your employment which includes adherence to the relevant Code of Conduct.

He signed it, ignored it and was then found guilty of a high level breach and was sanctioned - end of!

The argument about whether Codes of Conduct should allow what an employee does outside work to be sanctionable is an argument definitely worth having but it doesn't change the fact that he breached what is the current Code of Conduct for his profession.

It is exactly the same as the rules for posting here: "posts that break the rules will be edited or deleted, and posters who do so may be warned or sanctioned". We know the rules as did he - a poster who ignores them is sanctioned - he ignored the rules and was sanctioned!
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David Libra

Rose with a violent heart


Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: où surréal côtoie

PostPosted: Tue Jun 25, 2019 4:44 pm
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taff wa wrote:
So we have a multi millionaire getting donations to fund his legal battle yet there are others who are struggling. https://thenewdaily.com.au/news/2019/06/24/gofundme-israel-folau/


Besides valid questions about why this is being brought up now and not for all the other instances of funding being sought for non-life-threatening projects or causes, I think most people are totally missing the point as to why Christians are seeking to fund his unfair-dismissal case – it's not just about supporting Folau, but about winning a battle for religious freedom. They (perhaps rightly) see this as a major test case in that area. So of course they want him to win.

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David Libra

Rose with a violent heart


Joined: 27 Jul 2003
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 25, 2019 4:49 pm
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Morrigu wrote:
You are missing the point - it doesn't matter what you believe the fact is a significant number of professions including Rugby Australia have Codes of Conduct that include what an employee does or says particularly on social media at work and outside of work. I belong to a very strong union and we still have a pretty stringent Professional Code of Conduct. If you sign the employment contract then you are agreeing to abide with the terms of your employment which includes adherence to the relevant Code of Conduct.

He signed it, ignored it and was then found guilty of a high level breach and was sanctioned - end of!

The argument about whether Codes of Conduct should allow what an employee does outside work to be sanctionable is an argument definitely worth having but it doesn't change the fact that he breached what is the current Code of Conduct for his profession.

It is exactly the same as the rules for posting here: "posts that break the rules will be edited or deleted, and posters who do so may be warned or sanctioned". We know the rules as did he - a poster who ignores them is sanctioned - he ignored the rules and was sanctioned!


Well, this is precisely what he'll be disputing in court, and, as has been noted, it seems quite possible that he will win. It's been suggested that Rugby Australia did not, in fact, include wording in his code of conduct specifically prohibiting what he did. In that case, it's not "end of" at all.

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Morrigu Capricorn



Joined: 11 Aug 2001


PostPosted: Tue Jun 25, 2019 7:15 pm
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^ As is his right.

The RA Code of Conduct covers all players, officials, etc ( he doesn't get his own personal one) and it is pretty clear with regard to core values and the expectations of all it covers - it doesn't need to specifically state you are prohibited from posting say homophobic or islamphobic or antisemetic comments which is why he was found guilty of a high level breach of the Code by a panel that included a QC and SC.

All comments from qualified people I have heard is that it is unlikely he will win at Fair Work - we will see I suppose!

Personally I'm hoping he doesn't win!
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stui magpie 

Oh the Premiership's a cakewalk


Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: preparing the Pilosocereus suppository

PostPosted: Tue Jun 25, 2019 7:31 pm
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David wrote:
If we work in a job, we abide by a code of conduct. That doesn't mean that what's in those codes of conduct doesn't matter, or shouldn't themselves be subject to the laws of the land. Indeed, they very much should be, and the fact that workplaces sometimes come up with bad codes of conduct, or place unfair, unreasonable or unhealthy expectations on workers is why the union movement exists.


You really need to do some reading on the history of Industrial relations in Australia and enhance your understanding of employment law.

A code of conduct is essentially an employer policy. It cannot over rule law or registered Industrial instruments so it cannot contain anything counter to law or industrial instruments (such as Enterprise Agreements).

Unless a code of conduct (or other policy such as a Social media policy) contains clauses that are illegal or conflict with the industrial instrument to the detriment of the employee, a union is powerless to do anything about it. All they can do is defend each and any instance of dismissal that they're called on to do by a member (they'll only support you if you're a financial member and they're an increasingly dwindling species) or lobby for changes to laws.

They can't take industrial action against an employer or force them to change policy they don't like

Similarly, what are "unreasonable or unhealthy expectations"is determined by reference to law, industrial instruments and FWA precedents, not personal opinion.

If these things are why unions exist today, they have no role.

On a side note, I have no issues with the Christian lobby now looking to raise funds for Folau. They are the ones with skin in the game and should be supporting him (although not all are which is interesting and refreshing) rather than a site like Gofundme which, at least to my mind, is for people dealing with difficult and/or tragic situations that they can't afford to pay for. he can afford to fund his own legal argument, he just prefers not to dip into his own pockets to do it.

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K 



Joined: 09 Sep 2011


PostPosted: Tue Jun 25, 2019 8:24 pm
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David wrote:
taff wa wrote:
So we have a multi millionaire getting donations to fund his legal battle yet there are others who are struggling. https://thenewdaily.com.au/news/2019/06/24/gofundme-israel-folau/

Besides valid questions about why this is being brought up now and not for all the other instances of funding being sought for non-life-threatening projects or causes, I think most people are totally missing the point as to why Christians are seeking to fund his unfair-dismissal case – it's not just about supporting Folau, but about winning a battle for religious freedom. They (perhaps rightly) see this as a major test case in that area. So of course they want him to win.

And since everyone is totally obsessed about Folau being a "multimillionaire"... let's be clear that this one multimillionaire is fighting a legal battle with a bunch of other multimillionaires who are not spending their own money on their legal fees.

We can go further down the money rabbit trail and wonder about how much sportsmen should be paid and would be paid in an ideal society, but it's obvious he's actually good at what he was paid to do. There is zero evidence that Castle and her cronies are any good at what they are paid millions to do. Castle now has a habit of walking into organizations, destroying them, and walking off to her next million-dollar job to repeat it all.


Last edited by K on Tue Jun 25, 2019 8:32 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Jezza Taurus



Joined: 06 Sep 2010
Location: Ponsford End

PostPosted: Tue Jun 25, 2019 8:32 pm
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thesoretoothsayer wrote:
I can't wait for Maria Falou to run out onto a netball court and get booed.
Because we all now know that the only reason you boo a person of colour is racism.

A wife supports her husband. Who would have thought? Rolling Eyes

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