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Personal behaviour vs employment

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stui magpie 

Oh the Premiership's a cakewalk


Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: preparing the Pilosocereus suppository

PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2019 8:20 pm
Post subject: Personal behaviour vs employmentReply with quote

We've had a few discussions here about how whether or not what someone does in their private life should impact their employment. I think it's fair to say that David and I have been on opposite sides.

The "Me too" movement has been an interesting scenario where the insinuation of impropriety via social media, with no proof or legal proceedings has been enough to impact careers, in some case severely.

This is an interesting one. Israel Follau is quite religious, borderline fundamentalist. He considers homosexuality a sin according to the bible which is probably technically correct, but puts him on the same page as fundamentalist Christians and most Muslims. Opposite to general societies views.

He recently put a post on his personal Instagram account saying that a group of people will go to hell unless they repent and find Jesus.

The group was

Drunks
Adulterers
Liars
Homosexuals
Fornicators
Thieves
Atheists
Idolaters

(I messed up the order, not deliberately)


https://www.theage.com.au/sport/rugby-union/folau-teammates-like-anti-gay-post-as-sponsor-qantas-backs-ra-action-20190411-p51d6b.html

Seems a fair proportion of Nicks is going to hell Wink

He plays Rugby Union. The main sponsor of Rugby Australia is Qantas, who's CEO is gay. It seems as though RA is about to tear up Folau's contract and sack him for the comments.

On one hand I think that's fair enough, he was warned about this previously. believe what you want but don't put it out there.He's upset the major sponsor and got a lot of people baying for his blood so RA needs to act for their own reputation.

On the other hand, I'm interested in other opinions, particularly David's.

Does that qualify as hate speech? If so, is Rowan Atkinson's devil skit hate speech?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VrwIs10XvKA

Should RA issue a statement saying that Folau's opinions do not reflect those of RA but they support his right to hold those opinions or should they sack him?

Should the employer butt out of their employees personal life or, does this impact the employer too much?

Thoughts?

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ronrat 



Joined: 22 May 2006
Location: Thailand

PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2019 8:43 pm
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I,ve said it before. Any dickhead who uses twitter to belittle others deserves to be sacked. Nobody makes you use it. And this from a bloke who slutted himself around every footy code going. Footballers in particular should keep the thing turned off, and cricketers whose name is Shane,
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thesoretoothsayer 



Joined: 26 Apr 2017


PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2019 10:12 pm
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I support Folau saying whatever the damn well he pleases.
I also think that if the ARU has a contract with Folau and, if he is in breach of that contract, they have the right to tear it up.
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David Libra

Rose with a violent heart


Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: où surréal côtoie

PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2019 10:43 pm
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I’m not going to say anything surprising, Stui – of course I think Folau has a right to express his personal religious views, and that Rugby Australia has no right to be policing what he says (and neither should they have had the right to stipulate anything of the sort in his contract, if indeed they have). It’s a gross overstep on their part.
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Skids Cancer



Joined: 11 Sep 2007
Location: Joined 3/6/02 ... aka Assassin member #175

PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2019 11:14 pm
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I reckon hell is going to be great, what, with all the hookers and partying going on.... I meet the criteria in quite a few of his 'sinners' list... the last one, I don't even know what that is... but I'll give it a shake.
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ronrat 



Joined: 22 May 2006
Location: Thailand

PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2019 11:37 pm
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Kkids yes you do if ever you called Daicos a god. And yes I will be there and will safe you a seat between the bar and the stripper pole. I dare say a doobee or 2 will be available.

If say Bachar Houli tweeted that all jews should be killed how long do you think he would be employed at Richmond. Folau was warned. I think he is a Mormon so can now piss off and do his mission work.

Waiting to see Ian Roberts on this subject.

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luvdids Sagittarius



Joined: 22 Mar 2008
Location: work

PostPosted: Fri Apr 12, 2019 12:40 pm
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Fornicators?? Shocked

We're all f**ked.


Pardon the pun Wink
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Morrigu Capricorn



Joined: 11 Aug 2001


PostPosted: Fri Apr 12, 2019 6:55 pm
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^ yep Laughing Laughing Laughing
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pietillidie 



Joined: 07 Jan 2005


PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 6:54 am
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David wrote:
I’m not going to say anything surprising, Stui – of course I think Folau has a right to express his personal religious views, and that Rugby Australia has no right to be policing what he says (and neither should they have had the right to stipulate anything of the sort in his contract, if indeed they have). It’s a gross overstep on their part.

That's one issue, but I think it's overshadowed by the elephant in the room, namely whether religion and its adherents have a right to vilify people, and incite hatred of them and violence against them, by condemning them to hell and destruction.

It doesn't matter that the doctrine itself is nonsense or that the bigotry is mediated by 'god'; enough people believe in a 'hell', or accept it as a guiding metaphor, for it to be genuinely threatening.

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think positive Libra

Side By Side


Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere

PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 8:49 am
Post subject: Reply with quote

ronrat wrote:
I,ve said it before. Any dickhead who uses twitter to belittle others deserves to be sacked. Nobody makes you use it. And this from a bloke who slutted himself around every footy code going. Footballers in particular should keep the thing turned off, and cricketers whose name is Shane,


It certainly brings out the worst in people.

Should he be sacked for it? No but I’m sure they will find a way to punish him! You don’t insult so loudly and publicly everyone from the CEO down and walk away scot free.

In saying that if there is a claus in his contract and he broke it, well stuff him, he would be really dumb to give up such a lucrative job for that outburst! Let’s notforget he signed the contract.

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David Libra

Rose with a violent heart


Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: où surréal côtoie

PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 4:36 pm
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Folau has been sacked and is now suing. Hope he wins.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2019/apr/17/israel-folau-to-challenge-rugby-australias-termination-of-4m-contract

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think positive Libra

Side By Side


Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere

PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 4:44 pm
Post subject: Reply with quote

David wrote:
Folau has been sacked and is now suing. Hope he wins.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2019/apr/17/israel-folau-to-challenge-rugby-australias-termination-of-4m-contract


so if he wins and plays again, is he then fodder for what everyone else may think of him? since he can say what he likes about anything and everything, surely he should have to cop it too? or because he took the cowards way of generalising, his comments are not bullying?

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David Libra

Rose with a violent heart


Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: où surréal côtoie

PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 5:27 pm
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I don't oppose the criminalisation of hate speech, and if his Tweets are seen to constitute it then I'm happy for him to be pursued through legal avenues.

I just categorically reject the notion that his employer should have any right to sanction or terminate him over this, because that means that they think they owned him – that anything he did in his personal life over the course of his employment existed within their purview. And if they win the case, then that means that, perhaps, under the law, they're not wrong about that.

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think positive Libra

Side By Side


Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere

PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 5:36 pm
Post subject: Reply with quote

David wrote:
I don't oppose the criminalisation of hate speech, and if his Tweets are seen to constitute it then I'm happy for him to be pursued through legal avenues.

I just categorically reject the notion that his employer should have any right to sanction or terminate him over this, because that means that they think they owned him – that anything he did in his personal life over the course of his employment existed within their purview. And if they win the case, then that means that, perhaps, under the law, they're not wrong about that.

ah ok, thats a fair point. they dont own him.

unless of course there is a clause in his contract thats effectively is a gag rule on him. and if there is and he signed it, well he really cant complain.

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Wokko Pisces

Come and take it.


Joined: 04 Oct 2005
Location: Ballarat!

PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 5:47 pm
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Maybe he wants out of his contract to go back to League, wouldn't be the first person to get purposefully fired to get out of an ironclad exclusive employment contract.
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