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think positive 
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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That’s a sad read. Very true. I’ve noticed every time something like this happens, the head scarved women get like deer in head lights. Until you smile and say hi. I can’t imagine what it’s like. A few weeks back I was down the beach just taking pictures, and I saw the mostgorgeoussudenese family, three girls, and asked if I could take some pictures. They seemed relieved I talked to them. There definitely is a problem withgangs A couple of suburbs over but clearly, this family was not gang material. Jus5 as not all catholic priests are pedophiles, all Germans were not Hitler, and all Muslims are not radical.
But how do you fix it?
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You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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An interesting assessment of the killer by Guy Rundle:
https://www.crikey.com.au/2019/03/18/brenton-tarrant-christchurch-narrative/
| Quote: | Not lone wolf nor automaton: the Christchurch terrorist doesn’t fit old narratives
Guy Rundle
The Christchurch attack is, so far, doing everything that Brenton Tarrant has stated he wants it to. It has made a safe haven like New Zealand as violent as some of the countries that many of the affected immigrants fled. It has, as the online fascist right says “accelerated” the debate and conflict over large-scale open-ended multicultural immigration; and it has put a centre-right that has used nativism and xenophobia on notice — they have half-slipped off the tiger they’ve been riding for a decade or more.
PM Scott Morrison issued a mealy-mouthed comment, then came out explicitly labelling the event as “right-wing terrorism”. Presumably an adviser had read Tarrant’s 75-page document and seen that Tarrant himself says he’s a terrorist and right-wing by some definitions. Senator Fraser Anning’s statement blaming Muslim immigrants for their own slaughter proved a welcome distraction for the right, as did the egg-slapping he received the next day.
While the right were desperately trying to find a stance, large sections of the left and progressives were willing to rush to a standard explanation. Tarrant’s document/manifesto was “rambling” and “hate-filled”; his act was the end result of years of tabloid racism; as a white Australian, he was the carrier of settler violence etc etc. This is a wheezy old recitative, which simply assimilates any new event to a progressive narrative. It has a near-total symmetry with the right’s account of madmen and lone wolves — but it was made more visible by the right’s silence across the weekend.
The plain fact is that Tarrant’s bloody terrorist propaganda of the deed fits almost none of the progressive/left accounts being given of it. Tarrant seemingly isn’t ‘mad’ in the sense of being psychotic; his document/manifesto isn’t rambling; his hate is focused and directed, not explosive and incontinent; he is not, in an exact sense, a white supremacist, or an antipodean anti-Indigenous racist. Given what he actually is, it would be almost more comforting if he was any of those things — which is one reason why there is such a desire to slot him into a standard progressive/left narrative.
What or who is Brenton Tarrant? It is quite possible that he was once an attentive reader of Andrew Bolt and other tabloid nativists and race-panic merchants. But his document/manifesto and his 8chan threads — overlaid with trolling though they are — suggest that he left that cheap stuff long ago and began to dive into the traditionalist stream of European reactionary thinking. These were movements inspired by specific readings of Nietzsche, Heidegger and Spengler, of figures like Julius Evola and the fascist ideologue Gentile, who argued that modern existence — technology, capitalism, bureaucracy — was essentially annihilating the human spirit, that it was afflicting white Europeans uniquely, that communism and consumer capitalism were near-equal ills, and that the recovery of the European spirit licensed almost any act.
It could be argued from his document that Tarrant is of this tradition, even if he hasn’t encountered much of it directly (though he may well have). He declares it necessary to kill Muslims (and possibly others) in European lands (including colonial lands) because their culture is stronger, not weaker than white culture. Essentially he argues that white culture has become so decadent, its post-God world such a market wasteland, its cultural heroes either depressives like Kurt Cobain or alleged paedophiles like Michael Jackson, that it stands no chance against intact, robust cultures such as Islam. There’s no particular anti-Semitism, no anti-Indigenous ranting, no incel stuff about feminism per se — his obsession is falling birthrates overall, rather than failing to get laid — and no championing of European imperialism in that defensive way the right has adopted. For Tarrant, meaningful existence seemingly comes from intact race-cultures; his travels through the world have convinced him that no European society is intact.
The importance of this is to see clearly what’s happened, and what’s coming. Tarrant isn’t some ranting Aussie with eight flag emojis on his Twitter handle. He’s part of the “right international”, the global movement of ethno-nationalists and ethno-separatists whose movement can be found widely — including in Hungarian politician Hungary Viktor Orbán, in the underworld of 8chan — and in violent operatives like Tarrant. Because they’re separatists not supremacists they can work together globally, connecting with, for example, Hindu nationalists, the Han Chinese nationalism of the Chinese Communist Party (Tarrant says his political views align most closely with China’s), and others.
Tarrant’s act isn’t the “lone wolf” act of someone running down Muslims in his truck; it’s “lone operative” terrorism. It’s a single mission seeking maximum outrage.
None of it fits the right-wing narrative of a madman; Tarrant is radically evil and ruthless, but the content of his social philosophy — that race-decline destroys whole societies — lines up with the explicit beliefs that much of News Corp tabloid media has been pumping out for years now. Yet nor is he the figure the left/progressives would want him to be: the loner bogan automaton with no agency, loaded up and pointed, like one of his scribbled-on guns, by racist media.
What Tarrant clearly wanted was for European countries to feel markedly less safe for Muslim immigrants. He wants the centre-right, which has been opportunistically borrowing from hard-right nativism, to be thrown into chaos, split between condemners and appeasers. Above all he wants left progressives to discredit themselves by insisting ever more vociferously that There Is No Alternative to a world totally marketised, multiculturalised and globalised, and that anyone who disagrees is a monster, much like… Brenton Tarrant. That will serve, in his thinking, to further alienate those who have deep misgivings about globalised, internationalised societies, from the official political and media system, and make elite dominance all the more visible.
Don’t be distracted by the shitposting of the document. Beneath it is a perfectly consistent worldview, with a rationale for extreme violence in the tradition of the Irgun, Ulster paramilitaries, Black September and a host of others. What is chilling is not the occasional grandiosity, or occultism of Tarrant’s thought but the, well, modesty of his aims — how much he was willing to trade away for what he believes will be relatively little effect.
If few are likely to follow him into decades of prison, many will be convinced by his weighing of means and ends to lesser actions. As violent Islamic terror fades in the West, the greatest threat we now face is hard-right terror, successively refining its methods, swimming like a fish in the sea of a racist political culture engineered by the right. |
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swoop42 
Whatcha gonna do when he comes for you?
Joined: 02 Aug 2008
Location: The 18
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| Morrigu wrote: | | Pies4shaw wrote: | | Wokko wrote: | | I thought the same thing about Anning, even if what he and Milo said is 100% correct .... |
But it isn't. What they said is so devoid of logic that it isn't worthy of consideration. It's 100% stupid. |
I have no idea who said or says what, I don't care that much to be honest cause it just goes on and on and doesn't change a bloody thing - frankly I'm more concerned with Botswana talking about reintroducing elephant hunting 
But in my very simplistic view it seems that one side just yell you're wrong, youre stupid, you're a racist, you are islamophobic etc and all that does is make those who hold different views IMHO mainly due to ignorance and an unfounded fear become more combative and resistant to any education that may possibly change their views and then they retort with leftards etc.
And sorry but those yelling racist etc etc seem to be the most intolerant of any opinion other than own - even condoning a politician ( albeit a nasty piece of work) having an egg smashed into his head by a young man from behind because they don't like said politician or what he said. I seriously doubt they would be celebrating him if he had done such a thing to a politician they agreed with - hypocrites much!  |
Anning didn't have an egg cracked on his head because he's a conservative who supports a new coal fired power station, tax cuts to the rich or the east west link he had an egg cracked on his head because he's a racist, doesn't even pretend otherwise and was attending an event surrounded by white supremacists.
Sorry but his kind don't deserve a voice as they are the preachers of hate and nothing more.
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He's mad. He's bad. He's MaynHARD! |
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stui magpie 
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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it is interesting and for a distinct change I find myself in almost agreement with him.
Having read about half of the manifesto (I got a pdf version) his focus is clearly separatist. he has no issues with Muslims as long as they stay at home, in that case his aims are the same as ISIS. ISIS wants to make the rest of the world inhospitable to Muslims so that they can all congregate together in the new caliphate. That's the end game. Having them dispersed around the world is a temporary state in their mind only serving to allow them to radicalise a few and instigate terrorist actions, Islamophobic responses and sometimes, like this one, terrorist responses.
All serves their purpose.
Tarrant did harp on about birth rates and the strong culture allowing immigrants to supplant the culture of their host country. That was his big issue, Muslims just happened to be the group he chose as to him they seemed the most in your face example.
He's also acting as a provocateur. Driving a schism into the west.
The Left also unwittingly do the bidding of ISIS (I think this was covered in another article you posted or linked to, and also by Morrigu) in that by systematically berating and bullying anyone who dares disagree with their narrative rather than trying to engage in debate, they actually push many undecideds further right.
So in summary, the whole situation is currently a clustercluck. The solution is open and honest transparency of communication and acceptance of difference of opinions rather than insults but I'm going to sprout wings and fly to the moon before that happens.
So buckle up, it's not going to get better. ISIS is far from dead even if their recent attempt seems to have failed. Enough senior people have spread around the globe with enough significant funding to keep pushing their program, it will just morph. Discounting his writings as the babble of a far right idiot is to ignore the lessons contained therein.
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Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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thesoretoothsayer
Joined: 26 Apr 2017
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I usually think of Rundle as a boring old communist but I think he's cogent here. The mood of the far-right isn't one of racial triumphalism but one of embittered resignation. They believe that whites have lost the demographic race, that their countries have been betrayed by globalist elites and that a hollowed out West is no match for the muscular ideology of islam. When you think about it, they don't actually hate islam, they're jealous of it. |
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pietillidie
Joined: 07 Jan 2005
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| stui magpie wrote: |
it is interesting and for a distinct change I find myself in almost agreement with him.
Having read about half of the manifesto (I got a pdf version) his focus is clearly separatist. he has no issues with Muslims as long as they stay at home, in that case his aims are the same as ISIS. ISIS wants to make the rest of the world inhospitable to Muslims so that they can all congregate together in the new caliphate. That's the end game. Having them dispersed around the world is a temporary state in their mind only serving to allow them to radicalise a few and instigate terrorist actions, Islamophobic responses and sometimes, like this one, terrorist responses.
All serves their purpose.
Tarrant did harp on about birth rates and the strong culture allowing immigrants to supplant the culture of their host country. That was his big issue, Muslims just happened to be the group he chose as to him they seemed the most in your face example.
He's also acting as a provocateur. Driving a schism into the west.
The Left also unwittingly do the bidding of ISIS (I think this was covered in another article you posted or linked to, and also by Morrigu) in that by systematically berating and bullying anyone who dares disagree with their narrative rather than trying to engage in debate, they actually push many undecideds further right.
So in summary, the whole situation is currently a clustercluck. The solution is open and honest transparency of communication and acceptance of difference of opinions rather than insults but I'm going to sprout wings and fly to the moon before that happens.
So buckle up, it's not going to get better. ISIS is far from dead even if their recent attempt seems to have failed. Enough senior people have spread around the globe with enough significant funding to keep pushing their program, it will just morph. Discounting his writings as the babble of a far right idiot is to ignore the lessons contained therein. |
That's not a particularly coherent view, though. You wouldn't blame the existence of ISIS on liberal Muslims who do not tolerate extremist views and argue vigorously against backward bigotry; that's an argument central to ISIS' own preaching and self justification. But you might blame the existence of ISIS on hate merchants and those who support and fund their ideas, magnifying their reach.
In our context, the unwitting supporters of this sort of extremism are the casual and soft bigots, the cowardly right political parties, and the amoral opportunists who make money from fear mongering media and policies dependent on far right votes.
The targeting of vulnerable minorities to stoke fear and leverage votes and economic opportunity is as old as society itself; there is nothing new to see here politically. But those whose minds have been primed to view the world in a fundamentalist manner, split between good and evil, can no more be reasoned with than a fundamentalist Muslim, Hindu or Christian. It takes years for this type of person to overcome that sort of psychiatry. In the interim, the best society can do is is minimise their harm.
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Help Nick's: http://www.magpies.net/nick/bb/fundraising.htm |
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stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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| Quote: | | That's not a particularly coherent view, though. You wouldn't blame the existence of ISIS on liberal Muslims who do not tolerate extremist views and argue vigorously against backward bigotry. But you might blame the existence of ISIS on hate merchants and those who support and fund their ideas, magnifying their reach. |
I would actually blame the existence of ISIS on something more basic, men seeking power and control
In an islamic country there is little to no separation between church and state. Islam is not just a religion, it's a culture, a way of life that children are indoctrinated into from birth. The men in power have the power and control. With the Internet penetration increasing dramatically over the past decade or so, the pervasiveness of western culture and womens rights, if you're a senior Muslim who likes things under control, the West is a threat to your way of life, your culture. A mirror image of Tarrant's manifesto (or vice versa).
The biggest risk to these kind of people is Muslims successfully assimilating into western society, becoming more westernised over time, reducing the ability to control the populace and destroying the way of life they want.
The obvious side effect of the Islamist terrorism, is a rise in the right wing and a corresponding rise in the left, both of which serve their purposes.
To your other point, when you reach this point reason doesn't work. You can't win arguments with logic or facts, only with emotion.
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Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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pietillidie
Joined: 07 Jan 2005
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| stui magpie wrote: | | Quote: | | That's not a particularly coherent view, though. You wouldn't blame the existence of ISIS on liberal Muslims who do not tolerate extremist views and argue vigorously against backward bigotry. But you might blame the existence of ISIS on hate merchants and those who support and fund their ideas, magnifying their reach. |
I would actually blame the existence of ISIS on something more basic, men seeking power and control |
Precisely, and hence:
| pietillidie wrote: | | The targeting of vulnerable minorities to stoke fear and leverage votes and economic opportunity is as old as society itself; there is nothing new to see here politically. |
A certain percentage of the population will always be prone to fundamentalism and being signed up to causes engineered by those seeking power. This might be left or right, to be sure; however, the present matter is plainly a problem of the right, which fuels a rich world of paranoid hatreds for political ends.
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In the end the rain comes down, washes clean the streets of a blue sky town.
Help Nick's: http://www.magpies.net/nick/bb/fundraising.htm |
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stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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Speaking of men seeking power.
| Quote: | The hate-filled killer at Christchurch’s mosques may be in custody, but he is still achieving what he wanted: escalating chaos.
Who could have imagined that just a month from Anzac Day, the leaders of Turkey and Australia would be at each other’s throat for the first time since their predecessors fought on Gallipoli’s slopes 104 years ago? |
https://www.theage.com.au/politics/federal/hate-filled-christchurch-killer-rapidly-achieves-what-he-wanted-chaos-20190320-p515uz.html
The comments from the Turkish President were pretty piss poor and historically inaccurate. The scariest bit was the "threat" that if NZ didn't execute Tarrant, somehow Turkey would deal with it.
Sco Mo calls in the Turkish ambassador then holds a press conference slamming the Turkish president. Little Bill chimes in with an echo. Diplomacy by media.
By contrast, Jacinta Arden, the NZ PM says relatively little (that I'm aware of) other than that she's put her foreign minister on the first plane to Turkey.
Who'd a thought a Lamb Ad would hold the solution.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3V1IDRM4h3c
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Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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Getting sick of these DP's
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Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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swoop42
Whatcha gonna do when he comes for you?
Joined: 02 Aug 2008
Location: The 18
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| stui magpie wrote: | | Getting sick of these DP's |
Poor you having to share.
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He's mad. He's bad. He's MaynHARD! |
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thesoretoothsayer
Joined: 26 Apr 2017
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watt price tully 
Joined: 15 May 2007
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| swoop42 wrote: | | Morrigu wrote: | | Pies4shaw wrote: | | Wokko wrote: | | I thought the same thing about Anning, even if what he and Milo said is 100% correct .... |
But it isn't. What they said is so devoid of logic that it isn't worthy of consideration. It's 100% stupid. |
I have no idea who said or says what, I don't care that much to be honest cause it just goes on and on and doesn't change a bloody thing - frankly I'm more concerned with Botswana talking about reintroducing elephant hunting
But in my very simplistic view it seems that one side just yell you're wrong, youre stupid, you're a racist, you are islamophobic etc and all that does is make those who hold different views IMHO mainly due to ignorance and an unfounded fear become more combative and resistant to any education that may possibly change their views and then they retort with leftards etc.
And sorry but those yelling racist etc etc seem to be the most intolerant of any opinion other than own - even condoning a politician ( albeit a nasty piece of work) having an egg smashed into his head by a young man from behind because they don't like said politician or what he said. I seriously doubt they would be celebrating him if he had done such a thing to a politician they agreed with - hypocrites much! |
Anning didn't have an egg cracked on his head because he's a conservative who supports a new coal fired power station, tax cuts to the rich or the east west link he had an egg cracked on his head because he's a racist, doesn't even pretend otherwise and was attending an event surrounded by white supremacists.
Sorry but his kind don't deserve a voice as they are the preachers of hate and nothing more. |
Correct weight.
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“I even went as far as becoming a Southern Baptist until I realised they didn’t keep ‘em under long enough” Kinky Friedman |
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watt price tully
Joined: 15 May 2007
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| stui magpie wrote: | Speaking of men seeking power.
| Quote: | The hate-filled killer at Christchurch’s mosques may be in custody, but he is still achieving what he wanted: escalating chaos.
Who could have imagined that just a month from Anzac Day, the leaders of Turkey and Australia would be at each other’s throat for the first time since their predecessors fought on Gallipoli’s slopes 104 years ago? |
https://www.theage.com.au/politics/federal/hate-filled-christchurch-killer-rapidly-achieves-what-he-wanted-chaos-20190320-p515uz.html
The comments from the Turkish President were pretty piss poor and historically inaccurate. The scariest bit was the "threat" that if NZ didn't execute Tarrant, somehow Turkey would deal with it.
Sco Mo calls in the Turkish ambassador then holds a press conference slamming the Turkish president. Little Bill chimes in with an echo. Diplomacy by media.
By contrast, Jacinta Arden, the NZ PM says relatively little (that I'm aware of) other than that she's put her foreign minister on the first plane to Turkey.
Who'd a thought a Lamb Ad would hold the solution.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3V1IDRM4h3c |
I've written elsewhere over many years about Erdogan: the Islamo-fascist wearing a suit.
He's jailed & killed many, jailed jounalists and anyone with dissenting voices.
He is also facing an election. He has entreched power, changed laws to make himself the Sultan of Turkey. Nasty man; clever for local politics, knows how to capaitalize politically in terms of "us and them".
Feel for the Kurds who are being killed by this man and his regime
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“I even went as far as becoming a Southern Baptist until I realised they didn’t keep ‘em under long enough” Kinky Friedman |
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pietillidie
Joined: 07 Jan 2005
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| stui magpie wrote: | Speaking of men seeking power.
| Quote: | The hate-filled killer at Christchurch’s mosques may be in custody, but he is still achieving what he wanted: escalating chaos.
Who could have imagined that just a month from Anzac Day, the leaders of Turkey and Australia would be at each other’s throat for the first time since their predecessors fought on Gallipoli’s slopes 104 years ago? |
https://www.theage.com.au/politics/federal/hate-filled-christchurch-killer-rapidly-achieves-what-he-wanted-chaos-20190320-p515uz.html
The comments from the Turkish President were pretty piss poor and historically inaccurate. The scariest bit was the "threat" that if NZ didn't execute Tarrant, somehow Turkey would deal with it.
Sco Mo calls in the Turkish ambassador then holds a press conference slamming the Turkish president. Little Bill chimes in with an echo. Diplomacy by media.
By contrast, Jacinta Arden, the NZ PM says relatively little (that I'm aware of) other than that she's put her foreign minister on the first plane to Turkey.
Who'd a thought a Lamb Ad would hold the solution.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3V1IDRM4h3c |
Erdogan's opportunism here is par for the course for centre-right politicians, who are regularly rewarded by conservative money men and die hard right voters for courting fundamentalist extremists.
The difference, of course, is that we won't get out our false equivalency yardsticks and blame Turkish progressives for riling Turkish extremists with mean and intolerant words. Other people's fundamentalists are much more obviously repellent than our own.
Unfortunately, by electing comparable lowlifes like Trump who also rouse hatred and court fundamentalist extremists, the high ground in international diplomacy has been lost in much of the Anglosphere, leaving too few leaders with the moral authority to put the Erdogans of the world back in their place. Instead, diplomacy has been outsourced downward to eye-for-eye nutcases whose life motivation is being recognised for extremist acts by extremist communities.
I don't know too much about her, but here's hoping Ardern can be the face of decency in a mire of amoral cowards who can't win elections without courting hate.
_________________
In the end the rain comes down, washes clean the streets of a blue sky town.
Help Nick's: http://www.magpies.net/nick/bb/fundraising.htm |
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