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Pies4shaw 
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
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| Richmond won, kicking 12 goals to 4 after halftime. |
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TaylorMade
Joined: 11 Feb 2019
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I saw what I needed to see in the first half
Hawthorn had 6 quality players missing, Richmond Lynch Greig
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On the eve of a Dynasty |
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Pies4shaw
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
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| Hawthorn don't have 6 quality players. |
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K
Joined: 09 Sep 2011
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| And Richmond? They had four... I guess Lynch makes that five. And if you include Rioli, that's six. |
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What'sinaname 
Joined: 29 May 2010
Location: Living rent free
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| K wrote: | | What'sinaname wrote: | | K wrote: | I'm constantly amazed that the media and public are still on Rich after what happened in the prelim. ...
If Rich crash and burn, objectively this should be a relief for footy lovers, because they are just bad for football. |
Geelong were equally embarrassed in the 2010 PF and won the flag in 2011. |
Geelong were a good team. (A great one, perhaps.)
It's not the prelim that determined my opinion, but the public and media have their opinions formed too much by end results (a premiership), although a lot of things lead to that end result, only one of which is merit. One might have thought that a countering end result (prelim loss) would snap them out of their trance. Apparently not. |
I don't think the media is silly enough to think one game (PF) is indicative of Richmond. Why would they ignore a whole season where they finished on top. Objectively, Richmond have been the best team in the comp over the last two years.
I think there would be more pressure on Melbourne and Collingwood (and even Hawthorn) to prove that 2018 wasn't a fluke. For us it'll be "was our top 4 finish the result of a soft fixture or are we a genuine top 4 team?. |
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K
Joined: 09 Sep 2011
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| What'sinaname wrote: | ...
I don't think the media is silly enough to think one game (PF) is indicative of Richmond. Why would they ignore a whole season where they finished on top. Objectively, Richmond have been the best team in the comp over the last two years.
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The one objective thing is that Rich have had the smallest (by a long way) injury list of any top-12 team in the last two years. If that's by design, then that's their one real accomplishment in the last two years. If it's dumb luck, it won't last. There's a thread about that ( http://magpies.net/nick/bb/viewtopic.php?t=85267 ) -- but not much evidence in it either way. Just look at the injury lists last year of Adelaide, GWS, WCE, Syd, ... (Let's not talk about us.) Maybe the other teams are doing something wrong with strength and conditioning, and with rehab, etc. I don't know. That's why Rich finished on top. (And of course they did not finish on top at the end of H&A the previous year. They did get lucky to face Geebung, who did their roll-over-and-die thing in finals, which helped set up Rich's whole finals series.)
| What'sinaname wrote: | ...
I think there would be more pressure on Melbourne and Collingwood (and even Hawthorn) to prove that 2018 wasn't a fluke. For us it'll be "was our top 4 finish the result of a soft fixture or are we a genuine top 4 team?. |
I never get why people think teams need to "prove" something, or "send a message", or whatever. I'd be really happy to fluke a premiership, like the 2016 and 2017 premiers. (I don't know which way the 2018 premiers will go.) I mean, you either win the premiership or you don't. Whether you earn it, whether you deserve it, or whether you are worthy, etc. doesn't matter. |
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TaylorMade
Joined: 11 Feb 2019
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SomeBUDDY is angry,
Probably the same guy who voted for Steven May to come to Collingwood.
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On the eve of a Dynasty |
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BazBoy
Joined: 11 Sep 2014
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Adam Treloar yesterday was the the player who arrived at Collingwood
With a brilliant hit out and one can only imagine a game where he and Beams click ——be carnage for an opposition
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I'm not arguing--just explaining why i am right |
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TaylorMade
Joined: 11 Feb 2019
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| BazBoy wrote: | Adam Treloar yesterday was the the player who arrived at Collingwood
With a brilliant hit out and one can only imagine a game where he and Beams click ——be carnage for an opposition |
I could not agree more Baz, Imo Treloar is our best mid. Above Pendles and Sidey and even Grundy.
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On the eve of a Dynasty |
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TaylorMade
Joined: 11 Feb 2019
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FB: Maynard -- Dunn -- Langdon
HB: Pendlebury -- Moore -- Crisp
C: Treloar -- DeGoey -- Steele
HF: WHE -- Mihocek -- Stephenson
FF: Howe -- MasonCox -- Elliot
Foll: Grundy -- Adams -- Beams
Int: Goldsack, Thomas, Mayne, Varcoe
This probably gives us the most balance.
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On the eve of a Dynasty |
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Woods 
Joined: 21 Aug 2013
Location: Melbourne
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| Woods wrote: | Mick McGuane gave an extended interview on SEN back in October about how Beams will fit into the team. Well worth a listen for those who think a healthy Beams is a walk up start in the best 22.
https://player.whooshkaa.com/episode?id=287655
(Skip foward to the 2:00 mark for the start of the McGuane interview. His comments get particularly pointed after about the 5:00 mark) |
Has Beams been reading my mail?
Mick McGuane wrote this piece in The Herald-Sun after Beams contacted him after becoming aware of McGuane's radio interview comments (see above self quote)
Well, time for further speculation on Beams' capacity to adapt to the new Collingwood has passed. Over to you Beams. Its game day!
Why Dayne Beams, Darcy Moore and Jamie Elliott hold the key to Collingwood’s next premiership
Herald Sun by Mick McGuane, 21 March, 2019
The one knock on Dayne Beams — as good as player as he has been — has centred on his defensive output.
He plans to dismiss that query forever, starting against Geelong at the MCG tomorrow, in his first game for Collingwood since 2014 — and I can tell you that as a fact.
When he was traded from Brisbane back to the Magpies last October, he contacted me.
He wanted to discuss a radio interview in which I talked about the pros and cons of his return to Collingwood.
He hadn’t heard the interview, but he had read an abbreviated follow-up story that focused on his defensive deficiencies and glossed over the offensive positives that I had also talked about.
He wanted clarity about my comments. Fair enough, too.
We talked for more than half an hour about his excitement of being back at Collingwood and the challenges associated with a move back to Melbourne.
What shone through was his maturity, accountability and leadership, as well as a fierce drive to improve his own game, most notably his defensive work.
The crux of the discussion was his mission to become a more complete player. That’s what the greats do.
“I’ve changed a fair bit as a person and I am up for the challenge,” Beams told me.
“The defensive (criticism) stuff is spot on and has been the knock on me for my whole career, to be honest. But I am working on that to make this team go all the way (in 2019).”
The promise of this offensive midfielder becoming more defence orientated — and two sets of healthy hamstrings belonging to virtual recruits Darcy Moore and Jamie Elliott — holds the key to Collingwood’s quest for a 16th premiership.
Beams is all class and complements Scott Pendlebury, Steele Sidebottom, Adam Treloar and Taylor Adams (when fit).
He fits in with the Magpies’ high-volume possession game with lots of handball.
Beams last year averaged 29.1 disposals. He has a great balance between contested/uncontested possessions (elite) and his 416 metres per game rates above average.
You will find him on the end of those handball chains because he reads the game so well.
He also adds a big point of difference for the Magpies — he’s a goalkicking mid.
He has averaged a goal per game (168 games, 167 goals) across his career, and his capacity to score goals from the midfield sees him rated up with some of the best in the competition.
Collingwood needs that, and if he can buy into the team’s demand for pressure, that will be a massive win.
Coach Nathan Buckley must stick with Moore in defence and resist the temptation to shift him forward unless the team is hit by a footy “thunderbolt” — such as a serious injury to Mason Cox or Brody Mihocek.
Moore has the attributes to become an elite defender, if his body is kind to him.
We only saw him in seven games last year — four in defence (Rounds 1, 17, 19 and 20) and three in attack (Rounds 2, 7 and  .
He is mobile, athletic, can jump and reads the game well. He is prepared to leave his post and help a vulnerable teammate in a one-on-one matchup.
He kicks the ball out of the defensive 50 (D50) reasonably well and with more continuity in the role, his decision-making will improve.
Bucks has identified Moore’s ability to intercept and spoil aggressively, which fits Collingwood’s philosophy of improving their turnover game.
In Round 17, against West Coast, he had 10 intercepts and seven spoils. Two weeks later, against Richmond, he had eight intercepts and 13 spoils, when spending 74 minutes on Jack Riewoldt.
That’s 18 intercept possessions and 20 spoils in two matches against “A Grade” opposition — which are elite numbers.
This explains why I was so desperate for him to be fit and healthy — and to be picked — in last year’s Grand Final.
With a healthy Moore playing alongside Jeremy Howe and Tom Langdon, that trio can challenge the likes of West Coast’s Jeremy McGovern, Tom Barrass and Shannon Hurn, and Richmond’s Alex Rance, Nick Vlastuin and David Astbury, as the AFL’s benchmark interceptors.
After Lynden Dunn went down with a ruptured ACL in Round 15, the Magpies became the second easiest team to beat in a one-v-one contest on their defensive 50m and the easiest team to be out-marked against.
Moore’s inclusion in Collingwood’s back six will rectify that.
But his 2017 profile gives an indication of why he can be classified as an elite small forward (who also plays tall) on averages alone.
In that season, he fits into a conversation alongside Tony Greene, Eddie Betts and Robbie Gray, based on their 2017 profiles — and with more marks than the others.
Elliott has strength and speed — a combination defenders often struggle with — and he is a fantastic mark for his 178cm frame.
I saw first-hand the nightmare opposition teams had to deal with when confronting Collingwood legend Peter Daicos.
If they went with a smaller, undersized defender with agility, Daics would invite them into marking contests and prove too strong with his body position/judgment.
They would react by putting a taller, less mobile defender onto him so that he wouldn’t be out-marked. That’s when Daicos got separation on a lead and if he found himself under the high ball, he would bring the ball to ground.
Mick McGuane says Jamie Elliott has traits which remind him of Peter Daicos.
Just ask St Kilda’s Danny Frawley, who found out one day at Waverley.
Chris Scott will have that same conundrum tonight.
He’s not the Macedonian Marvel, but Elliott has some Daicos-like attributes. He is catlike, can swoop on ground balls and has the skills to go to either side to convert scoring opportunities.
It excites me to see Elliott, Jordan De Goey and Jaiden Stephenson work together; it’s an unconventional set-up but workable. They are strong overhead and can create headaches with their speed and power.
The Collingwood cake is baked, but Beams, Elliott and Moore are the cream. |
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Bucks5
Nicky D - Parting the red sea
Joined: 23 Mar 2002
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Matthew Lloyd agrees with this thread.
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How would Siri know when to answer "Hey Siri" unless it is listening in to everything you say? |
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What'sinaname
Joined: 29 May 2010
Location: Living rent free
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Greatest midfield...
0 - 1
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Fighting against the objectification of woman. |
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lihei
Joined: 07 Sep 2003
Location: One-Eyed Hill
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Mids believing their own hype. What an embarrassment they all are to the club.
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VOTE NO. Cancel the Cancel Culture. |
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Brown26
Joined: 14 Sep 2001
Location: Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
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Lihei - you need to have a Bex and a good lie down mate. It's round one, missing Adams at least from the best midfield, first game they've played together, against a very good (if not the best midfield the competition has ever seen) midfield tonight.
It wasn't the mids fault we lost. If the HBF and HFF could have held it together we would have won by a few goals.
Relax, enjoy the year, or at least have a good lie down!
- Ben |
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