Nick's Collingwood Bulletin Board Forum Index
 The RulesThe Rules FAQFAQ
   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   CalendarCalendar   SearchSearch 
Log inLog in RegisterRegister
 
The murderous disaster of Robodebt

Users browsing this topic:0 Registered, 0 Hidden and 0 Guests
Registered Users: None

Post new topic   Reply to topic    Nick's Collingwood Bulletin Board Forum Index -> Victoria Park Tavern
 
Goto page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
David Libra

I dare you to try


Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda

PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2017 1:07 pm
Post subject: The murderous disaster of RobodebtReply with quote

Has anyone here received one of these letters?

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2017/jan/03/minister-defends-centrelink-over-welfare-debt-compliance-system

Quote:
Roughly 169,000 Australians, including those with disabilities, have now received letters from the government, warning them the data-matching has detected a discrepancy in their income information.

Those individuals are given 21 days to prove they are eligible for welfare received up to six years ago, or they will incur a debt and a 10% �debt recovery fee�. If they fail to pay, individuals are referred to debt collectors, and the human services minister, Alan Tudge, has previously threatened them with jail.

...

The data-matching process appears to suffer from two main errors.

In some cases, it has been shown to have crudely averaged out ATO information on a person�s yearly income across all of Centrelink�s 26 fortnightly reporting periods.

Queenslander Michael Griffin, for example, was taken to have earned $1,000 every fortnight because his annual income was $26,000.

That does not take into account circumstances where a person has only worked for part of year, and is otherwise eligible for benefits.

A Centrelink whistleblower previously told Guardian Australia that many of those contacted by the agency were simply paying the debt without question.

The source, who reviewed hundreds of cases where disputes were lodged, said only about 20 had turned out to be genuine.


Bureaucratic errors happen. But what's truly surreal is that the government is defending this catastrophic stuff-up as merely a necessary means of recovering incorrectly paid entitlements. It all calls to mind a certain dystopian film from the '80s...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NvlwCSNiFp0

_________________
All watched over by machines of loving grace


Last edited by David on Wed Jul 12, 2023 11:20 am; edited 1 time in total
Back to top  
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail MSN Messenger  
Skids Cancer

Quitting drinking will be one of the best choices you make in your life.


Joined: 11 Sep 2007
Location: Joined 3/6/02 . Member #175

PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2017 1:41 pm
Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm sure if people don't actually owe anything they will be able to prove so and throw it in the bin.

Hopefully they catch most of the fraudsters and get OUR money back.

_________________
Don't count the days, make the days count.
Back to top  
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail  
David Libra

I dare you to try


Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda

PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2017 1:46 pm
Post subject: Reply with quote

Again,

Quote:
A Centrelink whistleblower previously told Guardian Australia that many of those contacted by the agency were simply paying the debt without question.


So we're certainly getting money back. Whether or not it's our money is another question...

_________________
All watched over by machines of loving grace
Back to top  
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail MSN Messenger  
Skids Cancer

Quitting drinking will be one of the best choices you make in your life.


Joined: 11 Sep 2007
Location: Joined 3/6/02 . Member #175

PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2017 2:58 pm
Post subject: Reply with quote

Well they're fckwuts aren't they?!
_________________
Don't count the days, make the days count.
Back to top  
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail  
Dave The Man Scorpio



Joined: 01 Apr 2005
Location: Someville, Victoria, Australia

PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2017 6:05 pm
Post subject: Reply with quote

Government is Desperate for Money and love Targeting the Needy
_________________
I am Da Man
Back to top  
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Warnings : 1 
Skids Cancer

Quitting drinking will be one of the best choices you make in your life.


Joined: 11 Sep 2007
Location: Joined 3/6/02 . Member #175

PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2017 6:12 pm
Post subject: Reply with quote

Dave The Man wrote:
Government is Desperate for Money and love Targeting the Needy


Needy? They're targeting thieves Dave.

_________________
Don't count the days, make the days count.
Back to top  
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail  
David Libra

I dare you to try


Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda

PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2017 7:26 pm
Post subject: Reply with quote

Skids wrote:
Well they're fckwuts aren't they?!


If you're talking about the government, I totally agree!

_________________
All watched over by machines of loving grace
Back to top  
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail MSN Messenger  
stui magpie Gemini

Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.


Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto

PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2017 8:02 pm
Post subject: Reply with quote

I last got centrelink in 1984, I know a number of people who do get it when they shouldn't so I'm all for cracking down on it.
_________________
Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down.
Back to top  
View user's profile Send private message  
Culprit Cancer



Joined: 06 Feb 2003
Location: Port Melbourne

PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2017 8:02 pm
Post subject: Reply with quote

Hmmm let's catch someone who got over paid on a singles mothers pension. We won't worry about the multinationals that don't pay any tax. Penny Pinching Liberals.
Back to top  
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail  
Mugwump 



Joined: 28 Jul 2007
Location: Between London and Melbourne

PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2017 8:25 pm
Post subject: Reply with quote

Culprit wrote:
Hmmm let's catch someone who got over paid on a singles mothers pension. We won't worry about the multinationals that don't pay any tax. Penny Pinching Liberals.


The law is the law. If either break the law then the government has a responsibility to act and recoup the money. Whether they are single mothers, Starbucks or one-eyed bandits is not the point. The corporate tax law and compliance is a disgrace and should be reformed to stop the multinationals from getting away with what they (presumably lawfully) do. That does not mean that the government should wink at Centrelink fraud or misappropriation.

That said, it is not ordinarily reasonable that someone should be expected to account for payments made 6 years ago. There should be a term limit unless there is clear prima facie case of fraud. Without knowing the facts of individual cases it is impossible to know how justified these letters are.

_________________
Two more flags before I die!
Back to top  
View user's profile Send private message  
stui magpie Gemini

Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.


Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto

PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2017 9:01 pm
Post subject: Reply with quote

^

The term limit is usually 6 years.

_________________
Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down.
Back to top  
View user's profile Send private message  
Dave The Man Scorpio



Joined: 01 Apr 2005
Location: Someville, Victoria, Australia

PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2017 9:11 pm
Post subject: Reply with quote

stui magpie wrote:
I last got centrelink in 1984, I know a number of people who do get it when they shouldn't so I'm all for cracking down on it.


as Long as they get the Right People and Not People who Do Need the Help

_________________
I am Da Man
Back to top  
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Warnings : 1 
Dave The Man Scorpio



Joined: 01 Apr 2005
Location: Someville, Victoria, Australia

PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2017 9:13 pm
Post subject: Reply with quote

Culprit wrote:
Hmmm let's catch someone who got over paid on a singles mothers pension. We won't worry about the multinationals that don't pay any tax. Penny Pinching Liberals.


The Lib thinkg that the Multinationals will give people Jobs Laughing so the Government does Stuff All and Plus they Bribe the Goverment to allow them to do what they want Evil or Very Mad

No Wonder the Country is pretty Stuffed at the Moment

_________________
I am Da Man
Back to top  
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Warnings : 1 
David Libra

I dare you to try


Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda

PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2017 10:08 pm
Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't have a problem with going after people who have rorted the system. The problem here is that they're using inaccurate, faulty data to send thousands of people who haven't done anything wrong "now prove you're innocent" penalty notices. Miss a Centrelink letter (it happens), fail to sort it out on time or fail to come up with the right documentation and you could be hit with a wrongful fine of a few thousand dollars. What's wrong with that picture?

As I said, stuff-ups happen. That's to be expected. But it's the fact that the government is acting as if everything's fine that makes this such an absurd example of authoritarian incompetence.

On Centrelink in general, I'm sure I'm not alone in suspecting that the entire system is set up to be as inefficient and unwieldy as possible. The mere act of getting in contact with them, whether face to face or by phone, is an absolute ordeal. If it's just about lack of resources, then fair enough (though that's something government has complete control over, so...). Otherwise, unless you actively believe in the virtue of making unemployed, disabled and low-income people suffer, it really shouldn't be that way.

_________________
All watched over by machines of loving grace
Back to top  
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail MSN Messenger  
David Libra

I dare you to try


Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda

PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2017 10:49 pm
Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.news.com.au/finance/work/calls-for-centrelink-debt-bungle-probe-claims-welfare-recipients-are-being-wrongly-hounded/news-story/23f7e122610ef7be4217f09ed6c882a3

Quote:
Mr Wilkie insists the minister has his head in the sand. “You don’t have to be a genius to tell that taking someone’s yearly income and dividing by 26 is not always going to produce accurate results if only because people’s circumstances change,” he said.

_________________
All watched over by machines of loving grace
Back to top  
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail MSN Messenger  
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Nick's Collingwood Bulletin Board Forum Index -> Victoria Park Tavern All times are GMT + 11 Hours

Goto page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next
Page 1 of 6   

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum



Privacy Policy

Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group