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David 
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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| stui magpie wrote: | | Maybe it's just me but I find it a lot easier to hate the predatory piece of crap that killed Jill Meagher than a messed up kid, despite the end result being the same in that an innocent young woman has been violated then killed. |
I think that makes sense in two ways. Bayley seemed like a particularly terrifying individual, even in the realm of the thankfully small group of men who rape and murder strangers just a habitual predator who didnt seem to have any capacity for redemption.
But more importantly, what youre feeling here is empathy for someone whos done something terrible. Thats not a bad thing. Ideally, we wouldnt feel hate for anyone, not even Bayley.
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All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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stui magpie 
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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Yeah, Bailey was a recidivist sex offender, with neither capacity for redemption or remorse.
This kid however, is just a mixed up kid for whom there was still hope for. Its so easy to go off the rails in late teens early 20's but if you can get them back on track they can go on to have good lives. Unfortunately, one brain fart moment can screw things up for ever.
So if he is guilty, not only is an innocent girl dead and her family and friends forever impacted, his life will never be the same again. Whatever potential there was for him has been killed along with her.
Not directly related, but this I thought was a very good article which includes why these kinds of attacks impact so hard.
| Quote: | When Aiia Maasarwe came to Australia to study at La Trobe University last year, her family was entitled to think she would be safer than at home in the Middle East. She had, after all, grown up in Israel, where rockets and bombs and the threat of terrorism hangs over even peaceful people in a troubled place.
Before coming to Australia, the Arab-Israeli citizen had studied in China, where policing is stringent and violent crime is rare.
In Melbourne, she was just another visiting student, one of tens of thousands in what is, by world standards, an extremely tolerant society.
Aiia dressed in Western clothes and did the things young Westerners travelling the world often do. She was seeing the sights Victoria has to offer, recently even daring to do a tandem parachute jump a travellers rite of passage. On a trip to the Grampians, she was photographed perched on a rock ledge jutting into space, proof she was willing to test her nerve.
Her parents might have worried about the parachute jump and the rock-climbing. Most parents would.
But they could hardly have imagined that their girls life ultimately depended on a casual decision to do something apparently far more harmless: going out with friends to a comedy club in North Melbourne.
But late on Tuesday night or early the next morning, lightning struck: this normal young woman going about her normal life became the latest of a handful of victims of random killings of a type that stir deep-seated fears in us all.
Her death reminds us of the murders of Jill Meagher, Masa Vukotic and Eurydice Dixon: names that are now code for the deadly stranger-danger that is posed to Melbournes young women by unhinged assailants.
The reaction to the fatal attack on Aiia at Bundoora some time around midnight on Tuesday has yet to reach the levels reached following the Meagher, Vukotic and Dixon murders. These spawned vigils, demonstrations, and outpourings of outrage.
Aiia did not work at the ABC like Jill Meagher, or appear on the stand-up comedy circuit like Eurydice Dixon, and she wasnt a popular local schoolgirl like Masa Vukotic, with dozens of local classmates and friends and extended family to mourn her publicly. She is, or was, an outsider.
But none of that makes Aiias familys anguish any less. Late this week, her father arrived to face the task every parent dreads: identifying their childs body in a morgue.
Police these days try to treat all homicide victims as of equal importance, and so they should. But the public and some in the media still have blind spots.
For instance, the suspicious death of Samantha Kelly at Ocean Grove has hardly raised a ripple compared with the tidal wave of reaction to the murders of Jill and Eurydice. Perhaps she lived too far from the inner city.
Other victims also remain relatively anonymous, such as young Geelong mother Emily Miller, who was shot dead two months ago.
So far, homicide investigators have not detailed how Aiia died, out of respect for her familys feelings. No gun or knife was used, but there was what police and coroners call blunt instrument trauma. And although police were careful about describing the motive and extent of the attack, it was clear they were hunting a violent sex offender.
It is a given that about 85 per cent of homicides are committed by someone close to the victim, often a partner or ex-partner.
The preponderance of so-called domestic violence in murder statistics amplifies the public shock of the relatively rare random killing by an unknown attacker.
A psychologist with first-hand knowledge of murder and its cause and effects says this is because when that happens to you, it literally is just bad luck.
You just happen to be in the wrong place at the right time to be noticed by someone who that minute has decided to do something evil.
Random murders, especially those committed at night, trigger a fear as primitive as the horror most people have of spiders, snakes or sharks, the psychologist says.
It is a fear left over from childhood, when we are still governed by ancient instincts to be afraid of the dark or of the dangers that might lurk in the dark.
As we get older, and logic and experience take over, we largely conquer these primal fears. So when bad things happen, as they did to these young women, it shocks us all the more to realise that despite the veneer of civilisation, we are not as safe as we thought we were. |
There's a fair bit more to the article, looking at Bailey and the other murderer. It was written before the kid was arrested.
https://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/victoria/aiiamaasarwes-killing-too-close-to-home/news-story/8aeb52f5441884e335f2730f81d1fb8d
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Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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watt price tully 
Joined: 15 May 2007
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| Jezza wrote: | A shitload of people are born into disadvantage.
Most of those people don't commit heinous crimes either. |
I suspect there is a lot more to it than that: & I'm sure you know there is too.
A visceral reposnse is a good reason we have judges to well judge a charge of rape and murder on it's merits. This will hopefull take into account not the just the heinous crime but also examine in detail the alleged perpertators background.
This does not mean or imply in any way that:
* Anyone is being "soft on crime" (cue liberal -party politicans)
* That the alleged perpetrator if found guilty should somehow serve a lesser sentence than not
What it does mean hopefully is that we can:
* examine the facts of the matter in detail
* that sentencing might also reflect not only the need to punish and appeal to our sense of justice (some might also include notions of sadism) but ensure that the punshment is well targeted: eg, say drug rehab if that was an issue, mental health assitance (was the alleged perpetrator psychotic)? dealing with past abuse issues (foster care and abuse are often synoymous )
* Once we have established the facts then hang the bastard .... oops...damn it
I see you were quick to place him at the counter neo-nazi demonstrations at StKIlda (just a simple juxtapostion was it?)
You should also check the right wing male trolls with respect to their contributions to the woman / women organizing of the public mourning on route 86 fir the morder of the young Israeli woman. The bloke who did the graffiti for the murder rape of the young comedian at Princes Park trolled the organizer saying "How do you know it wasn't a woman" before details were known. He and his right wing trolling mates were at it again. Hopefully he will be charged again by the police (& I'm not on facebook or twitter)
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“I even went as far as becoming a Southern Baptist until I realised they didn’t keep ‘em under long enough” Kinky Friedman |
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Culprit 
Joined: 06 Feb 2003
Location: Port Melbourne
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| It's another tragic death and I read one article that he was a "wannabe" rapper and another "inspiring" rapper. I don't know what the relevance is to the crime he is alleged to have committed. |
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watt price tully
Joined: 15 May 2007
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I've heard the description of the young woman go from Israeli to Arab Israeli to Palestinian Israeli.
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“I even went as far as becoming a Southern Baptist until I realised they didn’t keep ‘em under long enough” Kinky Friedman |
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think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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| stui magpie wrote: | Yeah, Bailey was a recidivist sex offender, with neither capacity for redemption or remorse.
This kid however, is just a mixed up kid for whom there was still hope for. Its so easy to go off the rails in late teens early 20's but if you can get them back on track they can go on to have good lives. Unfortunately, one brain fart moment can screw things up for ever.
So if he is guilty, not only is an innocent girl dead and her family and friends forever impacted, his life will never be the same again. Whatever potential there was for him has been killed along with her.
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Raping and killing a woman is not a brain fart, nor is it just going off the rails. They caught him pretty quickly, was he known to police?
i remember how much sympathy there was here for these women, "'My tweet was for the memory of Jill Meagher and Eurydice Dixon, Hinch wrote."" Aiia Maasarwe is just as dead as they are, and her death was just as horrific. hopefully the court dont see him as just a mixed up kid, and sentence him like the adult he is so that there isnt a next woman who needs our sympathy.
May they all rest in Peace.
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You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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Why is this a problem? Trusting that the court has made this decision very carefully as one would very much hope they have, given how much is at stake this makes total sense:
| Quote: | Justice Bowskill said evidence given by three psychologists determined Fardon was not a serious danger to the community due to a number of factors including his age, the time passed since his last sexual offence and that he was "not a paedophile".
"The consistent expert opinion of the three psychiatrists is that the respondent poses a low risk of reoffending sexually, without a further supervision order," the judgement said.
"Whilst he has been subject of the supervision order, progressively he has been moving about the community relatively freely, going on outings, to shops and going fishing, without any problems. |
I know it can be hard to believe in rehabilitation, but we need to have a system that allows for it, even for the worst criminals. We've all heard the saying "do the crime, do the time" that works both ways.
_________________
All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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Hopefully your right, more than happy to be wrong...
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You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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| think positive wrote: | | stui magpie wrote: | Yeah, Bailey was a recidivist sex offender, with neither capacity for redemption or remorse.
This kid however, is just a mixed up kid for whom there was still hope for. Its so easy to go off the rails in late teens early 20's but if you can get them back on track they can go on to have good lives. Unfortunately, one brain fart moment can screw things up for ever.
So if he is guilty, not only is an innocent girl dead and her family and friends forever impacted, his life will never be the same again. Whatever potential there was for him has been killed along with her.
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Raping and killing a woman is not a brain fart, nor is it just going off the rails. They caught him pretty quickly, was he known to police?
i remember how much sympathy there was here for these women, "'My tweet was for the memory of Jill Meagher and Eurydice Dixon, Hinch wrote."" Aiia Maasarwe is just as dead as they are, and her death was just as horrific. hopefully the court dont see him as just a mixed up kid, and sentence him like the adult he is so that there isnt a next woman who needs our sympathy.
May they all rest in Peace. |
He's never been in custody before, but was known to Police for low level property damage stuff.
Apparently a cop remembered him and the cap as they'd stopped him and spoken to him around the day of the assault.
https://www.theage.com.au/national/victoria/how-top-notch-policing-nabbed-suspect-in-aiia-maasarwe-death-20190120-p50sho.html
He is an adult and if found guilty of a horrible crime deserves appropriate sentancing and the young girl killed deserves at least as much sympathy as the other 2 women.
I don't see him offending again, regardless of length of sentance as I think he's more likely to die in Gaol, probably by his own hand, than get released.
_________________
Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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| watt price tully wrote: | | I've heard the description of the young woman go from Israeli to Arab Israeli to Palestinian Israeli. |
So modern journo's aren't that bright. All descriptions are correct, she's a Palestinian Arab Muslim who's a citizen of Israel.
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Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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Wokko 
Come and take it.
Joined: 04 Oct 2005
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| This has all gone pretty quiet since the vile piece of shit was named as Aboriginal. Suddenly it's all 'troubled kid' and other bullshit. There was wall to wall anti (white) male coverage for weeks after Jill Meagher's murder but this one is going straight down the memory hole. |
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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Are you sure thats actually true, or just what you want to be true? From what Ive seen, this murder has been a hugely galvanising event and people are still very much talking about it now. No, progressive columnists (Im presuming; I dont bother to read them anymore) are not heaping abuse on the alleged rapist/murderer thats always been the job of the right-wing tabloids but was that really the case with Bayley (or Eurydice Dixons killer) to begin with? So what is this double standard, exactly?
To be honest, I suspect that the fact that Herrmann is Aboriginal is of much more interest to the right than to progressives or feminists.
_________________
All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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I think what really stirred up the feminazis after Eurydice was the suggestion that walking home from the city wasn't the ideal plan and maybe she should have got a tram.
That led to the backlash and the "men need to stop raping" which then got a backlash from men.
Maybe people have learned from that, maybe because this girl did just about everything right within her power and still got attacked, maybe because the alleged perp is a 20 yr old disadvantaged Aboriginal kid instead of a thug like Bailey, all of the above or something else, dunno. But, the social media and progressive media have been noticeably quieter this time, particularly since the perp was identified and charged. Clementine Ford would have been churning out an article a day plus multiple tweets if the perp was another Bailey.
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Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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