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Pi 
Joined: 13 Feb 2006
Location: SA
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| David wrote: | | I’m no fan of Ford and honestly just avoid reading her stuff nowadays, but that’s a long way from her worst effort. I’m not offended by what she’s saying here; it’s fair enough to feel genuine anger and outrage at a news story like this, and to look for answers beyond just the supposed evil of the individual rapist/murderer. . |
https://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/lifestyle/life-and-relationships/men-of-australia-it-s-time-to-pick-your-side-20190117-p50rz7.html
...ok... so lets play find and replace the word man with, er....a religion starting with M. (...I used an extinct religion, that way the Bmods wont delete it) the association of Minoan with the Bull fits with the crap writing style. 
The body of the woman found in bushes at Bundoora, in Melbourne's north, has been identified, and the worst seems confirmed: another young woman’s life has been ended by a Minoan who chose to inflict sexual and physical violence on her.
Detectives believe Aiia Maasarwe could have been stalked while making her way home on an inner city tram after a night out on Tuesday. She was still alive, barely, when she was found on Wednesday morning but died soon after. The international student’s family are making their way to Melbourne. In Baqa al-Gharbiyye, the city mourns.
It is no less than infuriating to know that, even in the midst of another woman’s life being stolen from her by Minoans’ violence, conservative commentators and Minoans the world over continue to froth about "misandry" and "virtue signalling". While they continue a narrative about being demonised, women all over the world, just like Aiia, are raped and killed.
This is enraging and heartbreaking all at once. Aiia Masarwe was yet another young woman making her way home and living in the world as she had every right to do, and a Minoan has chosen to end her life in one of the most violent ways possible.
How many women have to die before people decide to take seriously the very real, ever present, issue of Minoans’ violence against them? Dog whistling politicians love to fling mud at migrant communities, stoking propaganda against them and nurturing the racism and violence that all too many white people consider to be a good day out, but they refuse to properly address the reality of misogyny and its widespread harm. Women of colour like Aiia are targeted by this violence at significantly higher rates, yet we have legislators and right-wing pundits embracing the tenets of white supremacy under the guise of "preserving our values".
exactly what values are we protecting in Australia, especially when benign conversations about sexism and Minoans being better too often result in yet more misogyny being produced as some kind of retaliation?
You Minoans want to stop being lumped in with all the "bad apples"? Consider yourselves lucky that this is all you have to deal with. Women just want to get home safely, and to not become another statistic in the much more prevalent danger posed to us by the Minoans we live with, sleep with and sit across the table from once we get there.
Think about that the next time you decide to whine that "it’s a really scary time to be a Minoan".
Aiia was reportedly speaking on the phone when she was attacked. Whether this was her intention or not, this is one of the many tactics women learn to minimise risk to us on the street.
Walk with your keys between your fingers. Smoke a cigarette. When in doubt, call a friend.
Jill Meagher tried to do the same thing the night Adrian Brayley stalked, raped and murdered her a few suburbs over from where Aiia was killed.
Use your common sense. It might not be fair, but the world isn’t safe for you.
And so we do. But the moment we talk about it we’re accused of paranoia, hysteria and, the worst of all the crimes a woman can commit: Minoan-hating. We’re expected to monitor and modify our behaviour to "prevent" harm, but we are never allowed to discuss the reality of that in case it makes Minoans feel somehow implicated.
Guess what, Minoans? You are all implicated.
It doesn't mean you are all responsible for it, but as you exist in a class of people who maintain these rights and privileges over others it is up to you to be active in destroying that.
It is up to you to call out your friends and family, your colleagues, and your fellow Minoans when they act in a way that contributes to sexist ideology, whether that's just through the telling of basic "jokes" or the actual abuse of women, and even of Minoans: the misogynist, homophobic bullying that occurs between Minoans is part of this too. Intervention needs to start early and, in an online era, trust me when I say the adoption of sexist language, ideology and practices begins well before boys turn into Minoans.
Basic sexism is the foundation of gendered violence. It isn't something that sits on the periphery, separate and inconsequential.
You want to know the common thread linking every man who decides to rape and murder a woman just making her way home at night? They’ve laughed at sexist jokes. They’ve agreed that "women ain't shit". They’ve liked a comment online that says "feminism is cancer" or "that bitch needs a dick in her mouth to shut her up".
Every time these Minoans see other Minoans minimising sexism and misogyny in their environments is another moment that makes them believe that Minoans think alike; that women are sluts and whores who deserve to be taught a lesson.
Haha, get back in the kitchen, bitch! Can I speak to the man in charge?
You f---ing ugly dog, I'm gonna bash your face in.
Minoans, you need to ask yourselves which side of that line you want to be on. Do you want to be one of the bricks in the wall that adds to the foundation of sexism and misogyny? That helps create the structure to which the worst of Minoans can ascend to the most frightening of levels? Or do you want to be part of the team that's tearing it down?
It's your choice. Pick your side.
Somewhere in Australia right now, there’s a woman reading this news who’s just like Aiia Masarwe, like Eurydice Dixon, Tracey Connolly, Jill Meagher, Lynette Daley, Vicki Cleary, Anita Cobby and all the other countless women who came before her. We don’t know her name yet. But we will.
Pick. Your. Side.
its just bloody awful turgid crap. so awful it would not get published at least not by a major news paper, not if I used that other 'M' word.
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Pi = Infinite = Collingwood = Always
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stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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^
I don't disagree, but to be fair David debunked most of her crap in his response. This Misandrist is just using a tragedy as an excuse to exercise her hobby horse.
And just to clarify for TP, I wasn't trying to misdirect into a poor men convo by pointing out the numbers, that wouldn't be appropriate
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Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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David 
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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I actually think that is a useful comparison, Pi (even if you were to directly use Islam in this context, and, no, that wouldn't have been deleted – but you might have done better to replace "misandry" with "Islamophobia"  ).
For this to be anything more than a "gotcha" exercise, though, I don't think it's enough just to point to double standards – we need to not just see that a Clementine Ford column becomes a Miranda Devine column when the identity of the target is changed, but to actually be able to take a coherent stance on whether that's actually a bad thing. Because, ultimately, just as many (*ahem*) anti-Minoan right-wingers who are outraged at Ford's piece would be eagerly sharing your version, and surely we need a more useful conclusion to all this than "everyone's a hypocrite".
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All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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Pi
Joined: 13 Feb 2006
Location: SA
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^
True enough, but if the perpetrator ends up being from a minority group hostile towards Israelis then the outrage machine just has another grenade to throw.
What constitutes reasonable journalism? free speech on a blog is one thing but major news papers are supposed to hold themselves to greater standards; or not perhaps.
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Pi = Infinite = Collingwood = Always
Floreat Pica |
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stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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Deleted post cos I £$%$ed up.
_________________
Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down.
Last edited by stui magpie on Fri Jan 18, 2019 3:22 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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| Pi wrote: | ^
True enough, but if the perpetrator ends up being from a minority group hostile towards Israelis then the outrage machine just has another grenade to throw.
What constitutes reasonable journalism? free speech on a blog is one thing but major news papers are supposed to hold themselves to greater standards; or not perhaps. |
I think there's a clear difference between journalism and op-eds: journalists are expected (at least, at reputable organisations) to be factual, even-handed and precise in their language. Op-ed columnists, on the other hand, are required to be smug, opinionated arseholes and to piss as many people off as possible. I think. 
_________________
All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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Just been up to Polaris, I needed a few things from the shops and thought I might as well go have a look and pay my respects. Left a small bunch of flowers on the memorial.
Scoping out the site confirms in my mind this was an opportunistic attack, no one planning an assault would pick that spot.
It is well lit, 2 street lights close by.
There's a row of townhouses barely 30m away with clear line of sight from any of the front windows
It's very open, no cover. The "bushes" her body was hidden in are some well trimmed conifers or diosmas, barely over 1 metre high. Just enough to conceal a body against very casual observation.
Poor fkn kid. 
There's still a Police presence there, talking to passers by as well as a media presence. For some reason I find it slightly disturbing that so close by, everyone is just getting on with their day to day lives. Shopping in the supermarket, drinking coffees, brunching. I mean, I was just there doing the same thing, shopping, so I'm not sure why I feel that way or what I expected.
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Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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swoop42 
Whatcha gonna do when he comes for you?
Joined: 02 Aug 2008
Location: The 18
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stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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^
I did a google search on 1986 black trucker caps earlier. The only conclusion I can reach is it's their year of birth, you can order birth year caps from several places, otherwise I can't see any other significance.
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Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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swoop42
Whatcha gonna do when he comes for you?
Joined: 02 Aug 2008
Location: The 18
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| David wrote: | I’m no fan of Ford and honestly just avoid reading her stuff nowadays, but that’s a long way from her worst effort. I’m not offended by what she’s saying here; it’s fair enough to feel genuine anger and outrage at a news story like this, and to look for answers beyond just the supposed evil of the individual rapist/murderer. And what she’s advancing is hardly a radical argument – it basically matches Liberal government advertising on the subject, line for line. But I’m not sure I can agree with this central argument that’s being advanced: that “disrespecting women” is the thin edge of the wedge, the base level of the pyramid, that leads to violence against women.
There’s certainly some truth to it: of course, just as we understand that racism can lead to hate crime, of course it’s true that misogyny can be a factor in violence against women. But I don’t see it as constituting the entire story the way many people do. Sexual violence of this kind is, nearly inevitably, at least partially sexual in motivation: it likely emerges from some cocktail of sadism (in the original sense), an arousal at the notion of sexual dominance and otherwise unfulfilled sexual desire. On a broader psychological level, I expect that you’ll also find some mix of compulsive tendencies, a difficulty in feeling empathy for others and most likely a diagnosable dysfunction or more generalised unhappiness with life that can seemingly only be satisfied by extreme acts. And we can reasonably surmise that the murder in cases such as these occurs primarily due to fear of retribution (though in rare instances the homicide may itself be committed for sadistic purposes). Whatever the case, none of those factors are really in any way cultural in the way Ford describes – that is to say, none of these are really emerging from indoctrination by extreme interpretations of mainstream gendered discourses (again, this is not to say that those cannot be a factor in some cases; more that they aren’t necessary in order to explain this). I suspect that a lot of crimes like these are committed by men who are fully aware that what they are planning to do is not considered acceptable by society – they simply want to get what they want and don’t care about the consequences for the victim.
These were not controversial ideas 40 or so years ago: I think violent rape was more or less understood by many people to be committed for reasons like these. But then along came the ‘80s and popular slogans like “rape is about power, not sex” and the notion that all violence against women stems from gender inequality. This was repeated often enough that it was treated like gospel. The only trouble is that, as far as I can tell, these political slogans had little to do with any established scientific research and were often based on flawed or inconclusive surveys of sex offenders. Even to this day, people repeat them as if they were facts as established as the theory of gravity, and that other explanations are discredited “myths”. But of course neither are true: the notion that rape is not at least somewhat sexually motivated is and always has been absurd, and now that we’re more familiar with concepts like date rape, rape in cases of intoxication and the many other ways in which a person’s sexual consent can be violated, the old slogan can and surely must be put to bed forever. Likewise, the notion that all sex crime and other violence against women must be inherently gendered remains a political just-so story that is left completely flailing when confronted with, say, domestic violence in same-sex relationships, the many similar psychological motivations of violence committed by men against either gender or the link between paraphilias and sexual crime.
I don’t say any of this to nitpick over language or trivialise or distract from this horrific act. Ultimately, I’m with Ford: we need to be urgently prioritising prevention. But while reducing sexism is always a worthy goal, she’s missing the bigger picture. The reason why this is important is that, if we don’t properly understand the causes of rape and violence against women, we’re not going to be able to adequately prevent it – and the unfortunate fact is that any prioritisation of dogma over actual comprehension of motivations and causes will render any such programs less effective and mean some crimes that could have been prevented still occur. |
Another more simple observation that rape is as much about sexual desire as power is that the majority of these high profile rape/murder events seem to have female victims that were both young and above average in physical appearance.
It may be blunt but not to many would be considered in the category of elderly, obese or butch in appearance.
Another factor to consider that sexual desire plays a significant contributing factor is a lot of the perpetrators themselves would be at an age between the late teens to mid 30's when a man's sexual drive is at it's peak and this coupled with a mental illness or emotional immaturity, low self esteem and feelings of inadequacies surrounding women can on occasion become a toxic and dangerous mix in the minds of young men who see no hope of ever engaging with women in a romantic and sexual way.
The sad fact is one young woman has lost her life and a young man has thrown his away for the sake of a few minutes fulfilling a deranged fantasy that has likely been months or years in the making within his mind.
I feel sorry for the families of both.
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He's mad. He's bad. He's MaynHARD! |
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swoop42
Whatcha gonna do when he comes for you?
Joined: 02 Aug 2008
Location: The 18
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stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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Clearly from the hate posts a shitpile of people have joined the dots. That was an interesting post indeed on Jan 8.
Apart from the scrubby facial hair, he looks a lot like a kid who came into the physio while I was waiting for my appointment a week or so before Xmas, and in a room with a pile of empty chairs, came and sat beside me and started talking to me 
I got called in about 15 seconds after he sat down, so it wasn't a long convo, he just sat and said he didn't know why he was here. seemed messed up but not tripping.
I really hope it wasn't the same bloke.
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Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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Jezza 
2023 PREMIERS!
Joined: 06 Sep 2010
Location: Ponsford End
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Apparently this guy was at the St Kilda "anti-racist" counter protest the other week.
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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Have to wonder about the wisdom of publishing his name/photo in the press. Maybe at least wait until he’s been charged?
If it turns out it’s not him, who’s going to pick up the pieces when he gets out of custody to find hundreds upon hundreds of rape, physical assault and death threats? I just hope the cops are pretty $£$%^%%$ sure it’s him, because once you unleash the pitchfork-wielding mob there’s no way back.
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