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| Do you want the Collingwood club song's words changed, in particular the word "cakewalk"? |
| 1) No. I do not want any changes to the words. |
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79% |
[ 39 ] |
| 2) Maybe. I am unsure and might be persuaded either way. |
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8% |
[ 4 ] |
| 3) Yes. I want change(s) to the word(s), AND I cannot be bothered reading through the options below to specify exactly what change(s). |
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0% |
[ 0 ] |
| 4) Yes. Specifically, I want only a one-word change (replace "cakewalk"). |
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6% |
[ 3 ] |
| 5) Yes. Specifically, I want the one-line change "There is just one team we favour" (the Club's failed 1983 version). |
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0% |
[ 0 ] |
| 6) Yes. Specifically, I want the one-line change "For the Magpie Army's faithful" (To...). |
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2% |
[ 1 ] |
| 7) Yes. Specifically, I want the one-line change "For the courage is unfailing" (At...). |
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0% |
[ 0 ] |
| 8) Yes. Specifically, I want the one-line change "For I hear the magpie calling". |
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0% |
[ 0 ] |
| 9) Yes. I want change(s) to the words, AND my specific preference is none of the above. |
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4% |
[ 2 ] |
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| Total Votes : 49 |
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E
Joined: 05 May 2010
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| K wrote: | | E wrote: | ...
"Oh, the premiership should be a cakewalk, but there are many reasons why it might not be like bad luck, possibly a curse, sometimes its because we overachieved to make it and sometimes we were just outplaued on the day, at least a few times we could be robbed by the umpires, and at least one time the opponent might take 18 vials of painkillers so that they are literally impervious to paaaaaain!....
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That stuff is also true of not just our GF opponents, but other clubs in GFs that don't involve Collingwood at all. In the long run, that sort of thing will just wash out. (e.g. We weren't the ones with the broken ribs in 2003.) That's why Essendon and Richmond are sitting on exactly 50% GF records, and Carlton is close to (but slightly above) 50%, as PPie said before:
Carlton 16W 13L
Essendon 14W 1D 14L
Richmond 11W 11L. |
Carlton is not that successful of a club. They just had a period of time where they had a tremendous financial advantage over the competition (pre-draft days) and had a period of incredible success (1970-1987). If you take out that period and the period from 1906-1908 (who the hell knows how they won three in a row then), they've only won 7 and lost 13. Not very much different to us in terms of ratio. I know you can cherry pick periods for every club (including Hawthorn by the way who won their flags in chunks - maybe due to a zoning advantage that evaporated once the draft kicked in??), but in the case of Carlton, they have basically been a non factor in the AFL for the past 20 years.
Not really sure what this has to do about the subject matter, but thought i'd respond to this sidebar.
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Ohhh, the Premiership's a cakewalk ....... |
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K
Joined: 09 Sep 2011
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As you said, we can't really scrub out a period without a good objective reason to do so. Even if we pretend for argument's sake that we have conclusive evidence that everything good for them 1970-87 was the result of mass cheating (for example), we can't also remove 1906-8, and the numbers you give suggest then it's still 10W, 13L, which is very close to that 50% mark again. In terms of GF performance, not that successful, but not that unsuccessful either -- just what's expected.
But yep, they are the worst-performing club of this century (the Elliott Curse?) and are in no danger of spoiling their par GF performance in the near future. |
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K
Joined: 09 Sep 2011
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| David wrote: | | K wrote: | | RudeBoy wrote: | | ... belting out "...the Premiership's a cakewalk..." after ... the ... Grannie. |
Quite frankly, no one should be belting out anything after a Pies GF, unless they did not actually get a ticket to it. Anyone at the GF should have spent all noise-making capacity at the game. That (noise deficit) is a real possible cause of the GF Curse. |
Maasaaaaaaaate. Hard to pick one highlight of absurdity from this thread, but this is ... you’re kidding, right!? |
That is quite an interesting response, David, because I suggested the main claim in previous discussion with you in another thread about something else, and your response then was totally different.
Back then, first ...
| David wrote: | | I started a thread on this topic back in my youth ... (etc.) |
and then ...
| David wrote: | | ... Thanks for the link ... Interesting stuff! |
Perhaps, the different words, different context and different tone of the thread are an example of priming, contributing to the totally different response to basically the same claim from the same reader. If so -- and I don't claim to know it is so; I'm just raising the possibility -- that'd be another example of how much psychology matters. |
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Rd10.1998_11.1#36
rd10.1998_11.1#36
Joined: 18 Jul 2018
Location: Sevilla, Spain
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I don’t recall anyone saying psychology doesn’t matter... this is a straw man that you and PP like to set up
The debate is, or rather should be, whether the word “cakewalk” has any significant negative impact on the psychology of the players (the only people who really matter) in the context of winning flags
The fact that a few supporters don’t like the word, for whatever reason, is irrelevant
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https://forever.collingwoodfc.com.au/sav-sinks-the-dockers/ |
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K
Joined: 09 Sep 2011
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Saying that something might be an "example of how much psychology matters" is not even close to saying that others "say psychology doesn't matter". We've never set up straw man arguments.
All that people seem to come up with is misguided claims about "tradition" (that's not why people dislike change), and the current numbers on the Nick's poll (which according to your last sentence should also be "irrelevant"). |
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K
Joined: 09 Sep 2011
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| Apart from that, your side keeps demanding that we show exactly how much of a positive effect on our GF performance change would bring. That is not a realistic demand, when we cannot even say exactly how much the psychological effect of historical events has been, e.g. climbing a mountain in Arizona (which had zero physiological benefit and, according to the tabloid, cost between $800,000 and $1,000,000 per trip). |
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E
Joined: 05 May 2010
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| K wrote: | | Apart from that, your side keeps demanding that we show exactly how much of a positive effect on our GF performance change would bring. That is not a realistic demand, when we cannot even say exactly how much the psychological effect of historical events has been, e.g. climbing a mountain in Arizona (which had zero physiological benefit and, according to the tabloid, cost between $800,000 and $1,000,000 per trip). |
i think the question is rhetorical. i think we all know that the song plays zero role in our success or failure. you guys are just clutching. Just accept that you barrack for Collingwood, and with that comes a great and sometimes teary ride!!!! i for one wouldn't want it any other way!
_________________
Ohhh, the Premiership's a cakewalk ....... |
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K
Joined: 09 Sep 2011
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| E wrote: | ...
Just accept that you barrack for Collingwood, and with that comes a great and sometimes teary ride!!!! i for one wouldn't want it any other way! |
I'm sure we all want more winning GFs and fewer losing GFs! |
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E
Joined: 05 May 2010
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| K wrote: | | E wrote: | ...
Just accept that you barrack for Collingwood, and with that comes a great and sometimes teary ride!!!! i for one wouldn't want it any other way! |
I'm sure we all want more winning GFs and fewer losing GFs! |
Then we'd be Hawthorn and not Collingwood...... Sport is about the journey and not the destination. AND without the bitter baby, the sweet just aint as sweet.
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Ohhh, the Premiership's a cakewalk ....... |
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RudeBoy
Joined: 28 Nov 2005
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Oh ffs, our song is OUR song, our jumper is OUR jumper. Anyone who doesn't embrace ALL of that should follow another team instead. As I said earlier, there are 17 other club songs to choose from. Seriously guys, this whole thread is incredibly embarrassing.
Does not the word STAUNCH mean anything to some of you? It used to be synonymous with being a Collingwood supporter.  |
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PyreneesPie 
PyreneesPie
Joined: 22 Aug 2014
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| RudeBoy wrote: | Oh ffs, our song is OUR song, our jumper is OUR jumper. Anyone who doesn't embrace ALL of that should follow another team instead. As I said earlier, there are 17 other club songs to choose from. Seriously guys, this whole thread is incredibly embarrassing.
Does not the word STAUNCH mean anything to some of you? It used to be synonymous with being a Collingwood supporter. |
Rudeboy, we must have different opinions of what staunch means (no surprises there! . To me it means being forever loyal, come what may; no abandoning the ship when things are not rosy.
It does not exclude having the courage to explore factors which could explain the less than satisfactory GF record of our beloved club. Indeed, I think you can be staunch and questioning at the same time, because both mean you have the club's best interests at heart. |
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K
Joined: 09 Sep 2011
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| RudeBoy wrote: | Oh ffs, our song is OUR song, our jumper is OUR jumper. ...
Does not the word STAUNCH mean anything to some of you? It used to be synonymous with being a Collingwood supporter. ... |
Which of the 26 different home jumpers in our history are you talking about as "OUR" jumper? The one with the changed number of stripes? Or the colours flipped? Or worse changes I haven't even mentioned yet?
As for the meaning of the word "staunch"...
| K wrote: | ...
I don't think this has anything to do with being "staunch".
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I think too many supporters are mistaking a defeatist attitude for staunchness. Again, this is coming back to that Baum article, which so many of you seemed to love. That article was a load of codswallop. How is that being staunch? It's just glorification of failure.
Baum: "This is the lived reality of following Collingwood. It's the fatal flaw in the club's DNA, and yes, I do believe that a footy club is enough of a living organism to have genetics."
"It's ennobling in a tragic sort of way."
"And ultimately to lose was pre-ordained."
That has nothing to do with being staunch. ... |
One has to wonder whether the Baumian defeatist glorification of failure is just a maladaptive psychological defence mechanism. Regardless, it's not helpful to the Club. |
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E
Joined: 05 May 2010
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| RudeBoy wrote: | Oh ffs, our song is OUR song, our jumper is OUR jumper. Anyone who doesn't embrace ALL of that should follow another team instead. As I said earlier, there are 17 other club songs to choose from. Seriously guys, this whole thread is incredibly embarrassing.
Does not the word STAUNCH mean anything to some of you? It used to be synonymous with being a Collingwood supporter. |
you and me baby! We are the only two real supporters left!
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Ohhh, the Premiership's a cakewalk ....... |
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Rd10.1998_11.1#36
rd10.1998_11.1#36
Joined: 18 Jul 2018
Location: Sevilla, Spain
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| K wrote: | | Apart from that, your side keeps demanding that we show exactly how much of a positive effect on our GF performance change would bring. That is not a realistic demand, when we cannot even say exactly how much the psychological effect of historical events has been, e.g. climbing a mountain in Arizona (which had zero physiological benefit and, according to the tabloid, cost between $800,000 and $1,000,000 per trip). |
How convenient for you that you divide us into sides... don’t we all want the same thing, premiership success?
And then you introduce another red herring
The topic is the word cakewalk and what impact on our finals record removing it will have
The answer is zero
_________________
https://forever.collingwoodfc.com.au/sav-sinks-the-dockers/ |
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K
Joined: 09 Sep 2011
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| Rd10.1998_11.1#36 wrote: | ...
How convenient for you that you divide us into sides...
The topic is the word cakewalk and what impact on our finals record removing it will have
The answer is zero |
"Divide us into sides"? That is a bit too melodramatic. I just meant those wanting to keep the word "cakewalk". The only "convenience" was using two words rather than seven, which is a bit long-winded, don't you think?
Just keeping on repeating your "zero impact" claim with no supporting evidence or reasonable argument does not make it true. (The last vaguely implied argument you made seems to be "the poll results".) |
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