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George Pell sexual abuse trials and fresh investigation

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Pies4shaw Leo

pies4shaw


Joined: 08 Oct 2007


PostPosted: Mon Mar 04, 2019 8:34 pm
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K wrote:
Jezza wrote:
The second trial ... was dropped due to a "lack of admissible evidence".

I wonder what made it inadmissible.

You remember how several pages back, I said that I was not going to try to explain the concept of "similar fact" evidence and its limits? I'm still not going to.
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Joined: 17 Mar 2003


PostPosted: Mon Mar 04, 2019 8:37 pm
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I can't say "yes" or "no".
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Jezza Taurus

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Joined: 06 Sep 2010
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 04, 2019 8:52 pm
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Pies4shaw wrote:
You remember how several pages back, I said that I was not going to try to explain the concept of "similar fact" evidence and its limits? I'm still not going to.

When I was studying Evidence at university, they referred to it as "tendency evidence" and "coincidence evidence".

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Pies4shaw Leo

pies4shaw


Joined: 08 Oct 2007


PostPosted: Mon Mar 04, 2019 8:55 pm
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Yes, and? When I was teaching at university, they called it whatever I suggested they should.

Last edited by Pies4shaw on Mon Mar 04, 2019 8:57 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 04, 2019 8:56 pm
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Jezza wrote:
[quote="Pies4shaw"]You remember how several pages back, I said that I was not going to try to explain the concept of "similar fact" evidence and its limits? I'm still not going to.[/quote]
When I was studying Evidence at university, they referred to it as "tendency evidence" and "coincidence evidence".
When was this exactly?
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K 



Joined: 09 Sep 2011


PostPosted: Mon Mar 04, 2019 10:04 pm
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Pies4shaw wrote:
K wrote:
...
I wonder what made it inadmissible.

You remember how several pages back, I said that I was not going to try to explain the concept of "similar fact" evidence and its limits? I'm still not going to.

Jezza wrote:
...
When I was studying Evidence at university, they referred to it as "tendency evidence" and "coincidence evidence".

Oh... I guess you're (P4S) saying it's the grouping of the three swimming complaints as one... and each wouldn't stand up on its own...
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 04, 2019 10:08 pm
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It would be nice if it was made up of only good memories.
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K 



Joined: 09 Sep 2011


PostPosted: Tue Mar 05, 2019 6:20 pm
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Robert Richter quits George Pell's team, saying the guilty verdict was 'perverse'

Robert Richter quits Pell's team, saying he's too angry and too emotional

https://www.theage.com.au/national/robert-richter-quits-george-pell-s-team-saying-the-guilty-verdict-was-perverse-20190305-p511xj.html

"Mr Richter QC told The Age and The Sydney Morning Herald that he felt he did not have “sufficient objectivity at this stage” to participate in the challenge set to be heard in Victoria’s Court of Appeal.

“I am very angry about the verdict,” he said, “because it was perverse”.

Mr Richter said Cardinal Pell ... would be “better served by someone more detached”.

“I think the man is an innocent man and he’s been convicted. It’s not a common experience.”

Throughout the criminal proceedings ... observers in court noted the close bond between the Cardinal and the veteran barrister, who appeared shocked by the guilty verdict.
...

It was announced last week that Sydney-based barrister Bret Walker SC would take the lead in the appeal case but that the Cardinal’s high-powered legal team would otherwise remain unchanged.

Legal sources say it is common practice for specialised counsel to be recruited when making an appeal. Cardinal Pell’s team also includes Richter’s junior barrister Ruth Shann and solicitor Paul Galbally."
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stui magpie Gemini

Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.


Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto

PostPosted: Tue Mar 05, 2019 7:42 pm
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Like mark Twain, reports that Robert Richter has quit may be exaggerated


Quote:
Top barrister Robert Richter QC will no longer be part of George Pell’s legal team ahead of the convicted Cardinal’s appeal, but has refuted reports he has abandoned the legal fight.

Mr Richter said he had not quit Pell’s appeal, instead saying “objective judgment” was needed for the case.

It is normal practice for appeals to be argued by different counsel.

PELL FOUND GUILTY OF SEX OFFENCES AGAINST TWO BOYS

“It is false to say I quit the legal team, I don’t quit,” Mr Richter told the Herald Sun.

High-profile barrister Bret Walker SC will head Pell’s appeal.

The veteran barrister said he had become too closely involved to objectively lead the appeal and acknowledged he was angry at last week’s guilty verdict.


https://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/law-order/george-pells-lawyer-robert-richter-qc-refutes-claims-he-has-quit/news-story/b72561f322babddd8f6ec857bb2e2a3d

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Pies4shaw Leo

pies4shaw


Joined: 08 Oct 2007


PostPosted: Tue Mar 05, 2019 8:55 pm
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No - but he may be in the VFL for this one. You know, "Out, fatigue", although, at his age, it might be the old Nick Maxwell "Calf, 1 week".
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K 



Joined: 09 Sep 2011


PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2019 2:00 pm
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David wrote:
I think there's definitely something more democratic in theory about a jury (i.e. they are just ordinary citizens from all walks of life), and we need to not get too caught up in elitism and remember that judges, too, may suffer from their own biases and limitations. I think it's clear that our justice system has a lot of components that are frustratingly imperfect, so I guess the only question is whether it's actually possible to improve upon them or whether, like democracy, this is the best worst system available.

Maybe if one system were used uniformly in all cases and all places, instead of all the differences there are now, that would indicate more agreement on what's the best imperfect system. Or else, if there is such agreement, the differences might indicate that societies don't care about having the best imperfect system in all cases (e.g. if it's not 'important enough' to warrant the cost)...
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Pies4shaw Leo

pies4shaw


Joined: 08 Oct 2007


PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2019 7:20 pm
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https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/mar/06/armidale-bishop-directs-catholic-schools-to-stop-asking-priests-for-working-with-children-checks

That is the way to restore public confidence in the clergy.
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stui magpie Gemini

Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.


Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto

PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2019 8:17 pm
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Pies4shaw wrote:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/mar/06/armidale-bishop-directs-catholic-schools-to-stop-asking-priests-for-working-with-children-checks

That is the way to restore public confidence in the clergy.


WWCC were a badly thought out knee jerk reaction to bad publicity. I have no issues with the principle but the (Vic) legislation is a dogs breakfast. Having said that, I agree.

Apparently there's legislation pending (not sure if federal or state) to compel priests to report suspicions of child abuse obtained via the confessional. Again, fine in principle but I have NFI how it could be enforced in practice

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David Libra

I dare you to try


Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda

PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 2019 7:12 am
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I have no problem with working-with-children checks (and, honestly, don’t totally understand what is happening in the article above), but I do support the Catholic Church being able to maintain the sanctity of the confessional. Waleed Aly wrote a good piece about this a few years back:

https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/choir-of-dissent-off-key-on-the-sanctity-of-confession-20121115-29enl.html

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Pies4shaw Leo

pies4shaw


Joined: 08 Oct 2007


PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 2019 7:44 am
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Given their splendid track record, should there even be a confessional? Is it ever safe for anyone to be alone with a a priest in a closeted space?
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