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School childrens strike supporting climate change

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Pies4shaw 



Joined: 08 Oct 2007


PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2018 2:55 pm
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Yes, Virginia, there is a Santa Claus. “Intelligent guns rights activists”. That’s the definition of oxymoron, right there.
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Wokko Pisces

Come and take it.


Joined: 04 Oct 2005
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2018 3:01 pm
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Pies4shaw wrote:
Yes, Virginia, there is a Santa Claus. “Intelligent guns rights activists”. That’s the definition of oxymoron, right there.


https://www.foxnews.com/politics/parkland-shooting-survivor-kyle-kashuv-emerges-as-conservative-role-model-second-amendment-champion

<snip>

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think positive Libra

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Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere

PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2018 3:16 pm
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stui magpie wrote:
David wrote:
thesoretoothsayer wrote:
Look at these brave 4 year olds protesting about asylum seekers.
We should do what they say because 4 year olds are so wise and informed.
https://t.co/5BK02GMTFh


True story: at my son’s daycare (for 3 and 4 year olds) earlier this year, they were teaching them about Anzac Day and what it represented. This is from the daycare centre’s daily newsletter:

Quote:
We continued to read our book of the month, "ANZAC Violin" and we finished reading the whole book today. We have learnt that ANZAC stands for Australian New Zealand Army Corp. Our soldiers went to Gallipoli to fight for our country and help keep us all safe. We discussed how the soldiers might feel when away from their families, we said sad, lonely and scared. We decided to draw beautiful pictures for our soldiers, so they will feel happy. We used various colours to draw nice pictures for the soldiers, along with a happy message. Our messages included "thank-you, for serving our country", "we hope you feel happy" and "thank-you for looking after our country". This experience supports children's knowledge development about world events that are significant to Australia, therefore this invites exploring what we celebrate and commemorate as a country.


I look forward to the outraged op-ed pieces in the Herald Sun about toddlers being politically indoctrinated.

In all seriousness, I’m not a fan of the stuff in the link above – using little kids as political props has always seemed a bit distasteful and exploitative to me. And I’m not terribly comfortable with what my son was exposed to above either, but it seems like pretty much no-one else blinks an eye at this kind of patriotic rah-rah respect-the-troops stuff (and quite how they expect 3 and 4 year olds to grasp much of anything about war is beyond me). Clearly, we have some interesting cultural double standards about what constitutes acceptable political indoctrination and what doesn’t.

Anyway, that’s all a world away from upper primary and high school aged kids who have learmed the facts about climate change (which are not in contention or even really political outside of the Liberal Party/2GB bubble), are intelligent enough to realise it’s a pressing problem and are aware that our government is doing nothing about it. If you’re sneering about that, I dare say you’re part of the problem.


I think that teaching kids the very basics about ANZAC day in that way is quite good. If the lessons followed the newsletter, it didn't try to brainwash the kids, just explained what ANZAC day was then asked them to empathise with people far from home and family doing a job.

With the kids demonstration, I have no issue with the older kids who at least will have been able to learn something about the topic and decide for themselves, but the young kids are just brainwashed props.


yeah that bit is disgusting.

the rest i agree with, but i can see why David would be a little unsettled about 4 year olds learning much about war. its a lot to take in. at any age, so $Ł$%^%%$ futile when you think about it!

so this was on Facebook: (it has a few good pints, but im still happy to see them protesting and not self absorbing in some other activity)




To all the school kids going on "strike" for Climate Change.

You are the first generation who have required air-conditioning in every classroom.

You want TV in every room and your classes are all computerised.

You spend all day and night on electronic devices.

More than ever, you don't walk or ride bikes to school but arrive in caravans of private cars that choke suburban roads and worsen rush hour traffic.

You are the biggest consumers of manufactured goods ever and update perfectly good expensive luxury items to stay trendy.

Your entertainment comes from electric devices.

Furthermore, the people driving your protests are the same people who insist on artificially inflating the population growth through immigration, which increases the need for energy, manufacturing and transport.

The more people we have, the more forest and bushland we clear and more of the environment is destroyed.

How about this...

Tell your teachers to switch off the air-con.
Walk or ride to school.

Switch off your devices and read a book.

Make a sandwich instead of buying manufactured fast food.

No, none of this will happen because you are selfish, badly educated, virtue signalling little turds, inspired by the adults around you who crave a feeling of having a "noble cause" while they indulge themselves in Western luxury and unprecedented quality of life.”

Wake up, grow up and shut up until you are sure of the facts before protesting.

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thesoretoothsayer 



Joined: 26 Apr 2017


PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2018 3:37 pm
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Wokko wrote:
Pies4shaw wrote:
Yes, Virginia, there is a Santa Claus. “Intelligent guns rights activists”. That’s the definition of oxymoron, right there.


https://www.foxnews.com/politics/parkland-shooting-survivor-kyle-kashuv-emerges-as-conservative-role-model-second-amendment-champion

Read about the kid instead of spouting your usual bullshit.


I'm an advocate of gun control so don't agree with Kashuv.
However, I have a huge amount of respect for the campaign he's running to honour Peter Wang:
https://www.newsweek.com/parkland-kyle-kashuv-trump-medal-freedom-peter-wang-1229450
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Jezza Taurus



Joined: 06 Sep 2010
Location: Ponsford End

PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2018 3:39 pm
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thesoretoothsayer wrote:
I can't help but feel your support for the child protests is due to the fact that they align with your political views.
Say that 5,000 catholic school students went on strike and protested in town against abortion rights.
Would you also consider them wonderful and wise or would you denounce them as a bunch or brainwashed fools?

Agree. It's obvious why the left is applauding this student activism.

Makes sense why they want to lower the voting age, especially when they're dominating the academic institutions in this country.

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David Libra

Rose with a violent heart


Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: où surréal côtoie

PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2018 4:25 pm
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thesoretoothsayer wrote:
I can't help but feel your support for the child protests is due to the fact that they align with your political views.
Say that 5,000 catholic school students went on strike and protested in town against abortion rights.
Would you also consider them wonderful and wise or would you denounce them as a bunch or brainwashed fools?


Well, of course it is. Why would I support children fighting for a cause that I think is harmful? I don't just mindlessly approve of kids holding signs and chanting slogans; my praise (like most people's, I'd imagine) is entirely contingent on this being an important issue that requires urgent action and that they are passionate and educated about. The fact that they are across the basics and are getting politically involved in the issue is, to me, entirely laudable. If that same energy were being transferred into, say, a push to bring out a new Pokemon game or reinstate the White Australia Policy, on the other hand, then of course I wouldn't see that as being anywhere near as positive.

(Whether or not I'd think they were brainwashed is another story. I think it's entirely possible for kids to be horrified by the idea of abortion and to more or less independently want to protest against it. Of course they should have a right to do so. On the other hand, members of cults – like the poor Westboro kids and more than a few of the adults trapped in that organisation – are, well, brainwashed pretty much by definition.)

think positive wrote:
so this was on Facebook: (it has a few good pints, but im still happy to see them protesting and not self absorbing in some other activity)




To all the school kids going on "strike" for Climate Change.

You are the first generation who have required air-conditioning in every classroom.

You want TV in every room and your classes are all computerised.

You spend all day and night on electronic devices.

More than ever, you don't walk or ride bikes to school but arrive in caravans of private cars that choke suburban roads and worsen rush hour traffic.

You are the biggest consumers of manufactured goods ever and update perfectly good expensive luxury items to stay trendy.

Your entertainment comes from electric devices.

Furthermore, the people driving your protests are the same people who insist on artificially inflating the population growth through immigration, which increases the need for energy, manufacturing and transport.

The more people we have, the more forest and bushland we clear and more of the environment is destroyed.

How about this...

Tell your teachers to switch off the air-con.
Walk or ride to school.

Switch off your devices and read a book.

Make a sandwich instead of buying manufactured fast food.

No, none of this will happen because you are selfish, badly educated, virtue signalling little turds, inspired by the adults around you who crave a feeling of having a "noble cause" while they indulge themselves in Western luxury and unprecedented quality of life.”

Wake up, grow up and shut up until you are sure of the facts before protesting.


Wait ... WTF? That's what Skids posted a page ago almost word for word. Who is plagiarising whom?

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Pies4shaw 



Joined: 08 Oct 2007


PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2018 4:25 pm
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The tiny children are a trivial sideshow. With or without the support of the toddlers, the planet is going to burn. Get with the movement or get fried.
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David Libra

Rose with a violent heart


Joined: 27 Jul 2003
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2018 4:46 pm
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I think something that's being overlooked in this back-and-forth is what the cynics actually think children should be doing. You can accuse children of being brainwashed or of being used as political props – and I've already expressed my own discomfort with the latter strategy, as per the toddlers-against-refugee-detention story – but the strong sense that I'm getting from all the right-wingers here (as well as Liberal Party politicians like Morrison and Canavan) is that they believe that anyone under the age of 18 has no place at a political protest, is incapable of forming even the most primitive independent political opinions and should actually be, for all intents and purposes, apolitical.

Do you realise that this is a pretty shockingly anti-intellectual position to hold? You're not just saying that kids are ignorant, you're saying that you want them to be ignorant.

I wonder if this comes from an idea that politics is something that is purely abstract, and doesn't actually have anything to do with real-world conditions. If so, that's a fairly privileged view to hold. If you were a Jewish child in 1933, you would have some awareness that your future was at stake (perhaps, yes, influenced by the views of your parents and other authority figures in your community – a phenomenon that hardly ceases in childhood), and if you protested, it would surely be an entirely legitimate and logical decision to do so. Is that brainwashing, or just enacted self-interest?

Now, that's the extreme case, but the principle really applies right down a long list of social issues to incorporate most of the things children might conceivably protest about – think anti-LGBTI discrimination, workers' rights, war and so on – and climate change is a particularly pressing real-world problem. Today's Australian kids might not quite be Jews in 1933, but a great many seem to be aware that climate change (and global inaction on trying to prevent its worst outcomes) is something that's going to affect them directly. The only reason you'd think of something like this as being brainwashing is if you don't believe in the science yourself. And if that's the case, then it is you, not they, who have been brainwashed, o climate sceptics.

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Last edited by David on Mon Dec 03, 2018 4:50 pm; edited 1 time in total
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watt price tully Scorpio



Joined: 15 May 2007


PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2018 4:47 pm
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Oh dear, I think the rabid right right wing on Nicks protesteth too much about some school kids motivated enough to participate in a rally to support climate change. Talk about histrionic overreactions, irrelevancies and disproportionate reactionary posts.

Some school kids have sure hit a raw nerve Shocked

And there I was thinking it was just Morrison and nutters like the Mad Misogynist Monk, Craig Kelly of the Minerals Council who were seriously out of touch.

I’m off to get an organic almond milk latte.

I need a good laugh so I’ll see what Pauline Hanson has to say 😉 Wink

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watt price tully Scorpio



Joined: 15 May 2007


PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2018 6:11 pm
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David wrote:
thesoretoothsayer wrote:
I can't help but feel your support for the child protests is due to the fact that they align with your political views.
Say that 5,000 catholic school students went on strike and protested in town against abortion rights.
Would you also consider them wonderful and wise or would you denounce them as a bunch or brainwashed fools?


Well, of course it is. Why would I support children fighting for a cause that I think is harmful? I don't just mindlessly approve of kids holding signs and chanting slogans; my praise (like most people's, I'd imagine) is entirely contingent on this being an important issue that requires urgent action and that they are passionate and educated about. The fact that they are across the basics and are getting politically involved in the issue is, to me, entirely laudable. If that same energy were being transferred into, say, a push to bring out a new Pokemon game or reinstate the White Australia Policy, on the other hand, then of course I wouldn't see that as being anywhere near as positive.

(Whether or not I'd think they were brainwashed is another story. I think it's entirely possible for kids to be horrified by the idea of abortion and to more or less independently want to protest against it. Of course they should have a right to do so. On the other hand, members of cults – like the poor Westboro kids and more than a few of the adults trapped in that organisation – are, well, brainwashed pretty much by definition.)

think positive wrote:
so this was on Facebook: (it has a few good pints, but im still happy to see them protesting and not self absorbing in some other activity)




To all the school kids going on "strike" for Climate Change.

You are the first generation who have required air-conditioning in every classroom.

You want TV in every room and your classes are all computerised.

You spend all day and night on electronic devices.

More than ever, you don't walk or ride bikes to school but arrive in caravans of private cars that choke suburban roads and worsen rush hour traffic.

You are the biggest consumers of manufactured goods ever and update perfectly good expensive luxury items to stay trendy.

Your entertainment comes from electric devices.

Furthermore, the people driving your protests are the same people who insist on artificially inflating the population growth through immigration, which increases the need for energy, manufacturing and transport.

The more people we have, the more forest and bushland we clear and more of the environment is destroyed.

How about this...

Tell your teachers to switch off the air-con.
Walk or ride to school.

Switch off your devices and read a book.

Make a sandwich instead of buying manufactured fast food.

No, none of this will happen because you are selfish, badly educated, virtue signalling little turds, inspired by the adults around you who crave a feeling of having a "noble cause" while they indulge themselves in Western luxury and unprecedented quality of life.”

Wake up, grow up and shut up until you are sure of the facts before protesting.


Wait ... WTF? That's what Skids posted a page ago almost word for word. Who is plagiarising whom?


Oops Rolling Eyes Shocked Goodness me. I think I'll make that two almod lattes.

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thesoretoothsayer 



Joined: 26 Apr 2017


PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2018 6:18 pm
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Quote:
The only reason you'd think of something like this as being brainwashing is if you don't believe in the science yourself. And if that's the case, then it is you, not they, who have been brainwashed, o climate sceptics.


There is no connection between arguing that we shouldn't make huge social, economic and political decisions based on the whims of minors and denying climate change.

Nor is there a connection between being suspicious of children mouthing slogans that align with the ideological goals of their carers and denying climate change.

As for your love for, and adherence to, science remind me again how a man can become a woman by putting on a dress.
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stui magpie 

Oh the Premiership's a cakewalk


Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: preparing the Pilosocereus suppository

PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2018 7:06 pm
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David wrote:
I think something that's being overlooked in this back-and-forth is what the cynics actually think children should be doing. You can accuse children of being brainwashed or of being used as political props – and I've already expressed my own discomfort with the latter strategy, as per the toddlers-against-refugee-detention story – but the strong sense that I'm getting from all the right-wingers here (as well as Liberal Party politicians like Morrison and Canavan) is that they believe that anyone under the age of 18 has no place at a political protest, is incapable of forming even the most primitive independent political opinions and should actually be, for all intents and purposes, apolitical.

Do you realise that this is a pretty shockingly anti-intellectual position to hold? You're not just saying that kids are ignorant, you're saying that you want them to be ignorant.

I wonder if this comes from an idea that politics is something that is purely abstract, and doesn't actually have anything to do with real-world conditions. If so, that's a fairly privileged view to hold. If you were a Jewish child in 1933, you would have some awareness that your future was at stake (perhaps, yes, influenced by the views of your parents and other authority figures in your community – a phenomenon that hardly ceases in childhood), and if you protested, it would surely be an entirely legitimate and logical decision to do so. Is that brainwashing, or just enacted self-interest?

Now, that's the extreme case, but the principle really applies right down a long list of social issues to incorporate most of the things children might conceivably protest about – think anti-LGBTI discrimination, workers' rights, war and so on – and climate change is a particularly pressing real-world problem. Today's Australian kids might not quite be Jews in 1933, but a great many seem to be aware that climate change (and global inaction on trying to prevent its worst outcomes) is something that's going to affect them directly. The only reason you'd think of something like this as being brainwashing is if you don't believe in the science yourself. And if that's the case, then it is you, not they, who have been brainwashed, o climate sceptics.


OK, if you believe the science and understand it, explain it to me in your own words. No links or quotes.

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think positive Libra

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Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere

PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2018 8:08 pm
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David wrote:
thesoretoothsayer wrote:
I can't help but feel your support for the child protests is due to the fact that they align with your political views.
Say that 5,000 catholic school students went on strike and protested in town against abortion rights.
Would you also consider them wonderful and wise or would you denounce them as a bunch or brainwashed fools?


Well, of course it is. Why would I support children fighting for a cause that I think is harmful? I don't just mindlessly approve of kids holding signs and chanting slogans; my praise (like most people's, I'd imagine) is entirely contingent on this being an important issue that requires urgent action and that they are passionate and educated about. The fact that they are across the basics and are getting politically involved in the issue is, to me, entirely laudable. If that same energy were being transferred into, say, a push to bring out a new Pokemon game or reinstate the White Australia Policy, on the other hand, then of course I wouldn't see that as being anywhere near as positive.

(Whether or not I'd think they were brainwashed is another story. I think it's entirely possible for kids to be horrified by the idea of abortion and to more or less independently want to protest against it. Of course they should have a right to do so. On the other hand, members of cults – like the poor Westboro kids and more than a few of the adults trapped in that organisation – are, well, brainwashed pretty much by definition.)

think positive wrote:
so this was on Facebook: (it has a few good pints, but im still happy to see them protesting and not self absorbing in some other activity)




To all the school kids going on "strike" for Climate Change.

You are the first generation who have required air-conditioning in every classroom.

You want TV in every room and your classes are all computerised.

You spend all day and night on electronic devices.

More than ever, you don't walk or ride bikes to school but arrive in caravans of private cars that choke suburban roads and worsen rush hour traffic.

You are the biggest consumers of manufactured goods ever and update perfectly good expensive luxury items to stay trendy.

Your entertainment comes from electric devices.

Furthermore, the people driving your protests are the same people who insist on artificially inflating the population growth through immigration, which increases the need for energy, manufacturing and transport.

The more people we have, the more forest and bushland we clear and more of the environment is destroyed.

How about this...

Tell your teachers to switch off the air-con.
Walk or ride to school.

Switch off your devices and read a book.

Make a sandwich instead of buying manufactured fast food.

No, none of this will happen because you are selfish, badly educated, virtue signalling little turds, inspired by the adults around you who crave a feeling of having a "noble cause" while they indulge themselves in Western luxury and unprecedented quality of life.”

Wake up, grow up and shut up until you are sure of the facts before protesting.


Wait ... WTF? That's what Skids posted a page ago almost word for word. Who is plagiarising whom?


It’s going around Facebook! Maybe he wrote the original? I just saw it on my feed while I had a coffee break!

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David Libra

Rose with a violent heart


Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: où surréal côtoie

PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2018 9:35 pm
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thesoretoothsayer wrote:
Quote:
The only reason you'd think of something like this as being brainwashing is if you don't believe in the science yourself. And if that's the case, then it is you, not they, who have been brainwashed, o climate sceptics.


There is no connection between arguing that we shouldn't make huge social, economic and political decisions based on the whims of minors and denying climate change.

Nor is there a connection between being suspicious of children mouthing slogans that align with the ideological goals of their carers and denying climate change.

As for your love for, and adherence to, science remind me again how a man can become a woman by putting on a dress.


STS, do you work as a scarecrow salesman? Because you sure are adept at straw-man arguments.

To be clear, nobody is saying that we should change climate policy because the kids think we should. We’re applauding them bringing attention (and adding their voices) to an important cause already backed by scientists, politicians, industry leaders and many ordinary voters. How do you manage to get so wound up in your own narrative that you miss such an obvious point?

(I’ll also let the attempt to derail the thread go through to the keeper. There’s an existing discussion on that topic elsewhere.)

think positive wrote:
It’s going around Facebook! Maybe he wrote the original? I just saw it on my feed while I had a coffee break!


What a coincidence that’d be, hey. Confused

stui magpie wrote:
OK, if you believe the science and understand it, explain it to me in your own words. No links or quotes.


I don’t pretend to be an expert, and there are a lot of details that I don’t fully understand. But my general understanding is that, since the Industrial Revolution, factories and other mass producers (such as the automotive and meat industries) have been pumping the air with high levels of carbon, which has affected the planet’s atmospheric cocktail of gases to the extent that, particularly since the mid-20th century, the Earth’s climate has left the realm of the normal temperature fluctuations that have occurred over the course of recorded human history. What this means is that average temperatures are gradually increasing by nths of a degree all the time, and we’re on track for a 2 to 4 degree rise in average temperatures by the end of the century, which means hotter summers (more droughts and bushfires), more intense pressure systems (more hurricanes, tsunamis and so on) and melting Arctic glaciers leading to rising sea levels and mass population displacement as islands and low-lying coastal cities become uninhabitable. While we can’t reverse the 1 to 1.5 degree rise that’s already happened, the international community can at least stabilise the current situation by phasing out fossil-fuel (coal, petroleum, etc.) use and replacing it with non-carbon-emitting energy sources like wind, solar and (depending on your perspective) nuclear power.

Now, all that’s off the top of my head, and I may have even gotten some minor details wrong; but the important point is that it’s the basic outline of what the problem is, and it’s really all that laypeople need to understand (though they should and can, of course, educate themselves further on the topic): carbon emission bad, planet’s climate get more extreme, keep doing this terrible things happen, scientists agree on this. I dare say most of the kids at the rally understood these basic points, and quite a few would have a much more sophisticated understanding of the topic: because, you know, they were actually paying attention in school and learning stuff, which most people apparently used to think was a good thing...

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roar 



Joined: 01 Sep 2004


PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2018 12:02 pm
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think positive wrote:

To all the school kids going on "strike" for Climate Change.

You are the first generation who have required air-conditioning in every classroom.

You want TV in every room and your classes are all computerised.

You spend all day and night on electronic devices.

More than ever, you don't walk or ride bikes to school but arrive in caravans of private cars that choke suburban roads and worsen rush hour traffic.

You are the biggest consumers of manufactured goods ever and update perfectly good expensive luxury items to stay trendy.

Your entertainment comes from electric devices.

Furthermore, the people driving your protests are the same people who insist on artificially inflating the population growth through immigration, which increases the need for energy, manufacturing and transport.

The more people we have, the more forest and bushland we clear and more of the environment is destroyed.

How about this...

Tell your teachers to switch off the air-con.
Walk or ride to school.

Switch off your devices and read a book.

Make a sandwich instead of buying manufactured fast food.

No, none of this will happen because you are selfish, badly educated, virtue signalling little turds, inspired by the adults around you who crave a feeling of having a "noble cause" while they indulge themselves in Western luxury and unprecedented quality of life.”

Wake up, grow up and shut up until you are sure of the facts before protesting.


You can't blame the school kids for most of those points. It's the adults who brought in the air-conditioning in classrooms, the parents who insist on driving their cherished ones to school (often in a stupid 4WD), buy all the stupid consumables for them to throw away, introduce and refuse to monitor internet or other screen usage.

Yes, they can take it upon themselves to change those habits, but as mentioned, they were introduced and nurtured by the adults "looking after" them, which is why they are self-indulgent, spoilt brats.

However, the gist of the protest was climate change denialism, which is conveniently absent from the facebook rant.

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