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David 
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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Glad to see the back of him. If this is a ploy to intervene in the Mueller investigation, then it seems like Trump is only going to be creating more pain for himself.
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MJ23
Joined: 28 Feb 2011
Location: Sydney
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| David wrote: | | Glad to see the back of him. If this is a ploy to intervene in the Mueller investigation, then it seems like Trump is only going to be creating more pain for himself. |
Funnily enough, I think supporters on both sides are happy to see him go.
There will be an extremely fine line Trump needs to walk re Muller hence the need for him to appoint an AG that Muller will report to given Sessions recusing himself . 2 years and counting for the investigation, it will be hard to justify the need for it to continue much longer.
Will also be interesting to see what the house will do as they seem to be jumping up and down about launching investigations. Congress can do what it wants to demand witnesses and evidence, but lawmakers are typically leery of taking steps that could jeopardise the criminal probe so having Muller shut down wont really annoy the Dems as much as they will jump up and down about it.
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"Even when Im old and gray, I wont be able to play but Ill still love the game"
Michael Jordan |
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Culprit 
Joined: 06 Feb 2003
Location: Port Melbourne
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| The results are good for democracy but not good for a dictator. Hopefully they can work together but when things turn to shit it will be the fault of the Democrats. |
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Pies4shaw 
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
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| MJ23 wrote: | | Pies4shaw wrote: | | MJ23 wrote: | | Jezza wrote: | | First time since 1914 that a party has gained control of the House but lost seats in the Senate. |
Like him or not, Trump made history yesterday however he and the Republicans have a lot to learn that they need to take note of. While in a national race, Trump's campaigning makes a huge difference and you'd expect no different next year. They did loose ground in the suburbs, among women and blacks. Can be typical in a mid-term but if I were them Id be looking hard at it and making adjustments.
For the Dems, they have a HUGE opportunity in the next two years and how they respond will make the difference I believe in 2020.
IF, they work with Republicans on an infrastructure bill, on a budget that starts to reduce the deficit but leaves the tax cuts, IF they can do a deal in immigration that probably involves DACA and boarder security, IF they dont try to re-introduce regulations back into the business / Manufacturing / finance sectors, IF they can be productive and be seen as legislating they will go a long way to winning in 2020. Nothing Trump wasnt prepare to work with them on in the last two years the difference being that now controlling the house they can control the message.
Problem is, they will be fighting nutters within their own party that will want to seek to impeach, investigate Trump, keep the Russia collusion story alive, subpoena his tax returns, become disruptive and attack at all costs. It wont work. Biggest issue they now face is that they will have 20-35 candidates tearing each other apart for the presidential nomination and most will be vying for media time. The media love Trump bashing so it will be the squeaky wheel.
America has a huge opportunity right now. I actually think this is the best outcome for right now and much of what happens in 2020 will be determined in the next 12 months.
Hopefully though the republicans get at least another Supreme court nom in the next two years.  |
It’s an interesting version of constitutional theory that would describe members of the legislative branch of government who want to hold the executive branch accountable as “nutters”.
There are three aspects of government under the US constitution. The president (any president, not the present one, in particular) is the most obvious, frequently the loudest and, after yesterday (as is frequently the case after the mid-terms), the least important. |
Tried to suggest a positive outcome for the dems and a constructive way forward but whatever.
Not really sure what your on about with the three branches however using your logic Obama was least important for 6 out of 8 years.......
Executive orders are not without power especially when they have a conservative supreme court. |
What I’m “getting at” is just basic constitutional law.
As for the rest of it, perhaps you have me confused with someone who cares about US politics beyond the question of the extent of its nazification. I don’t care that the Democrats have control of anything, save to the extent that they can thwart Trump. The Senate will continue to tinker with trivia - that’s what upper houses do. I care only about the country I live in and the potential for importation of and trafficking in extreme right ideologies. That potential took a big step back yesterday, which is the only thing that interests me. |
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MJ23
Joined: 28 Feb 2011
Location: Sydney
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| Pies4shaw wrote: | | MJ23 wrote: | | Pies4shaw wrote: | | MJ23 wrote: | | Jezza wrote: | | First time since 1914 that a party has gained control of the House but lost seats in the Senate. |
Like him or not, Trump made history yesterday however he and the Republicans have a lot to learn that they need to take note of. While in a national race, Trump's campaigning makes a huge difference and you'd expect no different next year. They did loose ground in the suburbs, among women and blacks. Can be typical in a mid-term but if I were them Id be looking hard at it and making adjustments.
For the Dems, they have a HUGE opportunity in the next two years and how they respond will make the difference I believe in 2020.
IF, they work with Republicans on an infrastructure bill, on a budget that starts to reduce the deficit but leaves the tax cuts, IF they can do a deal in immigration that probably involves DACA and boarder security, IF they dont try to re-introduce regulations back into the business / Manufacturing / finance sectors, IF they can be productive and be seen as legislating they will go a long way to winning in 2020. Nothing Trump wasnt prepare to work with them on in the last two years the difference being that now controlling the house they can control the message.
Problem is, they will be fighting nutters within their own party that will want to seek to impeach, investigate Trump, keep the Russia collusion story alive, subpoena his tax returns, become disruptive and attack at all costs. It wont work. Biggest issue they now face is that they will have 20-35 candidates tearing each other apart for the presidential nomination and most will be vying for media time. The media love Trump bashing so it will be the squeaky wheel.
America has a huge opportunity right now. I actually think this is the best outcome for right now and much of what happens in 2020 will be determined in the next 12 months.
Hopefully though the republicans get at least another Supreme court nom in the next two years. |
It’s an interesting version of constitutional theory that would describe members of the legislative branch of government who want to hold the executive branch accountable as “nutters”.
There are three aspects of government under the US constitution. The president (any president, not the present one, in particular) is the most obvious, frequently the loudest and, after yesterday (as is frequently the case after the mid-terms), the least important. |
Tried to suggest a positive outcome for the dems and a constructive way forward but whatever.
Not really sure what your on about with the three branches however using your logic Obama was least important for 6 out of 8 years.......
Executive orders are not without power especially when they have a conservative supreme court. |
What I’m “getting at” is just basic constitutional law.
As for the rest of it, perhaps you have me confused with someone who cares about US politics beyond the question of the extent of its nazification. I don’t care that the Democrats have control of anything, save to the extent that they can thwart Trump. The Senate will continue to tinker with trivia - that’s what upper houses do. I care only about the country I live in and the potential for importation of and trafficking in extreme right ideologies. That potential took a big step back yesterday, which is the only thing that interests me. |
Yeah sorry still not sure what your on about. You care, you dont care ....cant keep up.
_________________
"Even when Im old and gray, I wont be able to play but Ill still love the game"
Michael Jordan |
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HAL
Please don't shout at me - I can't help it.
Joined: 17 Mar 2003
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| At this moment Maybe in the future we won't have a huge opportunity. |
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Wokko 
Come and take it.
Joined: 04 Oct 2005
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| Pies4shaw wrote: | | The Senate will continue to tinker with trivia - that’s what upper houses do. |
You obviously don't understand the US system at all if you believe this. If Trump was told when he was elected he could increase his majority in the Senate but would lose the house in the Mid Terms then he'd take it every time. There's a reason he campaigned pretty much only in tight Senate races (Cruz) and for Governors while ignoring House contests.
The Senate confirms justices, giving the Republicans 2 years to stack the benches with whoever they want. It also confirms cabinet appointments so Trump can now have the team he wants; not the team that moderates like McCain let him have when he was elected.
The Senate also presides over any impeachment hearing and determines if the President is removed.
As for asinine talk of Nazis and dictatorships, the US system was made to defend against that and Trump is about as far from a dictator as you can get. The closest the USA has had to a dictatorship was Lincoln or FDR and Trump hasn't done anything even close to those two to be considered a tyrant. |
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Wokko
Come and take it.
Joined: 04 Oct 2005
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| David wrote: | | Glad to see the back of him. If this is a ploy to intervene in the Mueller investigation, then it seems like Trump is only going to be creating more pain for himself. |
I don't think there are too many who are sad to see the back of Mr Reefer Madness. |
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HAL
Please don't shout at me - I can't help it.
Joined: 17 Mar 2003
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| Wokko wrote: | [quote="Pies4shaw"]The Senate will continue to tinker with trivia - that’s what upper houses do. [/quote]
You obviously don't understand the US system at all if you believe this. If Trump was told when he was elected he could increase his majority in the Senate but would lose the house in the Mid Terms then he'd take it every time. There's a reason he campaigned pretty much only in tight Senate races (Cruz) and for Governors while ignoring House contests.
The Senate confirms justices, giving the Republicans 2 years to stack the benches with whoever they want. It also confirms cabinet appointments so Trump can now have the team he wants; not the team that moderates like McCain let him have when he was elected.
The Senate also presides over any impeachment hearing and determines if the President is removed.
As for asinine talk of Nazis and dictatorships, the US system was made to defend against that and Trump is about as far from a dictator as you can get. The closest the USA has had to a dictatorship was Lincoln or FDR and Trump hasn't done anything even close to those two to be considered a tyrant. |
[quotePies4shaw]The Senate has been tinker with trivia - that’s what upper houses doing. |
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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| watt price tully wrote: | | It truly is a complicated system of voting. House, Senate, Governors and a voluntary system of voting. Just when I think I understand it then comes another curveball (to use an Americanism). |
I actually find it's not too dissimilar to the Australian electoral system (its many quirks aside). The House is basically like our House of Representatives (which makes House leader Nancy Pelosi kind of like a prime minister, except one who is obviously subordinate to the President), the Senate is like our Senate and governors are like state premiers, which only really leaves the President as the key point of difference – kind of parallel to the Queen or Governor-General, but obviously with serious legislative power rather than being a figurehead.
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All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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Pies4shaw
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
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The US Senate is different from ours in that it elects 1 senator outright for each of the States in respect of which a Senate election is being held. Thus, the representation goes entirely according to who has the majority in the particular year - there is no election by quota.
In yesterday's election, a third of the Senate places were up for grabs (plus two out-of-turn elections to cover unscheduled vacancies). Of the 35, in total, 26 were occupied by Democrats or allies and 9 were occupied by Republicans. In the next election, there will be (before allowing for unscheduled changes) only 11 seats presently occupied by Democrats and 20 occupied by Republicans and in the 2022 elections, there will be 12 seats presently occupied by Democrats and 22 occupied by Republicans.
As to whether any of those 42 Republican Senate seats are actually "up for grabs", here's a useful article on how the numbers work, in practice - please note that the reference to "bias" in the title is a reference to statistical bias in voting patterns - it isn't asserting some sort of unfair playing field, political bias or gerrymander: https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-congressional-map-is-historically-biased-toward-the-gop/ |
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swoop42 
Whatcha gonna do when he comes for you?
Joined: 02 Aug 2008
Location: The 18
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https://www.theage.com.au/world/north-america/despite-democratic-gains-trump-s-race-baiting-pays-off-20181107-p50el4.html
| Quote: | Trump’s race appeal in 2016 and in 2018 was risky. After Barack Obama’s second victory in 2012 the Republican Party conducted a lengthy autopsy whose authors found that the party must learn to appeal to African American and Hispanic voters or die a long-term demographic death. Trump rejected this, gambling that he could squeeze out a couple more victories by appealing even more transparently to the racial anxieties of some white voters than the party had in the past.
For this strategy to work it is not enough simply to excite the base, one must also suppress the opposition. And over recent years the Republican Party has redoubled its efforts in this.
In states across the country Republican incumbents have introduced ever-more restrictive voting laws and regulations designed to make it harder for African Americans and Hispanics to vote. An Associated Press report last month showed that in Georgia 53,000 voter applications, almost 70 percent of which were from black people, had been held up for verification by the state’s Republican attorney-general, Brian Kemp. Kemp now appears to have been elected governor after a controversial election that he oversaw himself. In one of his campaign ads Kemp boasted that he drove “a big [pick-up] truck, just in case I need to round up criminal illegals and take 'em home myself".
Voter suppression is complemented by gerrymandering that sees electoral districts drawn so perversely that analysts predicted Democrats would need to win the popular vote by up to 7 per cent to scrape together a thin House majority. |
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He's mad. He's bad. He's MaynHARD! |
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Skids
Quitting drinking will be one of the best choices you make in your life.
Joined: 11 Sep 2007
Location: Joined 3/6/02 . Member #175
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How's all those crazy Republicans rioting in the streets, screaming at the sky and carrying on like spoilt brats for losing the house??.... oh, that's right... only the looney, violent left carry on like that
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Don't count the days, make the days count. |
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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Let’s hope the right-wing true believers have something to riot about in two years...
_________________
All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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MJ23
Joined: 28 Feb 2011
Location: Sydney
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| Pies4shaw wrote: | The US Senate is different from ours in that it elects 1 senator outright for each of the States in respect of which a Senate election is being held. Thus, the representation goes entirely according to who has the majority in the particular year - there is no election by quota.
In yesterday's election, a third of the Senate places were up for grabs (plus two out-of-turn elections to cover unscheduled vacancies). Of the 35, in total, 26 were occupied by Democrats or allies and 9 were occupied by Republicans. In the next election, there will be (before allowing for unscheduled changes) only 11 seats presently occupied by Democrats and 20 occupied by Republicans and in the 2022 elections, there will be 12 seats presently occupied by Democrats and 22 occupied by Republicans.
As to whether any of those 42 Republican Senate seats are actually "up for grabs", here's a useful article on how the numbers work, in practice - please note that the reference to "bias" in the title is a reference to statistical bias in voting patterns - it isn't asserting some sort of unfair playing field, political bias or gerrymander: https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-congressional-map-is-historically-biased-toward-the-gop/ |
Not quite right - each state has two senators representing them.
Senators serves 6 year terms with a third of them up for re-election every 2 years.
A clear majority in the senate is most important than anything else for any sitting president. Reason Trump now could comfortably sack Sessions is that now he can get whoever he wants confirmed.
_________________
"Even when Im old and gray, I wont be able to play but Ill still love the game"
Michael Jordan
Last edited by MJ23 on Fri Nov 09, 2018 8:00 am; edited 1 time in total |
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