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David 
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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| Post subject: "Yellow Vests" protests in France |  |
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I'm sure a few here are already following the gilets jaunes ("Yellow Vests") protests in France. Here's an article from a couple of weeks ago (since then, the protests have only grown in scope and violence).
https://jacobinmag.com/2018/11/yellow-vests-fuel-prices-france-protests
| Quote: | Last weekend more than 300,000 people took to the streets — and highways — across France, marching, disrupting traffic, and blockading thoroughfares to protest rising fuel prices. United by their anger at the rising cost of living, they responded to social media calls to “block the country” and show solidarity by donning “yellow vests” (gilets jaunes) — an article of clothing French motorists are required to carry in their cars in case they break down.
The mobilization has waned since Saturday, November 17 — its first day — when, according to the Interior Ministry, 290,000 people took part in more than 2,000 different blockades and rallies across France. Despite calls to keep up the pressure, just 46,000 turned out on Sunday and 20,000 on Monday. The movement appears far from dead, though. Protesters are gearing up for a march on the capital next Saturday: “Act 2: All of France to Paris,” the Facebook event promises.
The political establishment has been caught flat-footed. Prime Minister Edouard Philippe, a member of President Emmanuel Macron’s La République en Marche party, has vowed the government will not repeal a planned hike in the fuel tax much maligned by protesters. But he also said that he understood people’s “suffering.” In typical fashion, Macron has not yet commented on the matter, saying he would only do so “in due time.”
The Left, too, has been caught off-guard. While labor unions and left-wing parties have led most of the protests under Emmanuel Macron’s presidency until this point, they’ve been either missing in action or reduced to minor supporting roles for the “yellow vests.” None of the major union confederations have endorsed the protests. Nor have major political parties, from the Socialists and Greens to France Insoumise (“France Unbowed”). The latter’s head, Jean-Luc Mélenchon, has offered his personal support to the movement, arguing “the people are right to revolt.” But so, too, has the far-right: figures like Marine Le Pen of the National Rally (formerly known as the National Front) and Nicolas Dupont-Aignon of Debout La France (“France Arise”), a self-described sovereigntist who would have served as Le Pen’s prime minister had she won the presidency last year.
The protests are messy and dangerous. Their basic form — people gathering on roads and trying to block traffic from passing — is an invitation to confrontation and sometimes much worse than that. The Interior Ministry counts more than five hundred injuries so far. One elderly protester was even killed after she was struck by a panicked woman driving her daughter to the doctor’s office.
Perhaps the most remarkable fact about the movement is its genuinely grassroots origins. The mainstream right-wing Les Républicains as well as the far-right National Rally and France Arise parties have all printed posters and flyers in support of the movement — calling for the defense of “car drivers” — but they appear to have had little to do with the actual planning of the protests. Lacking formal leaders or spokespeople, the movement originated online.
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Fuel prices in France have skyrocketed over the past year. Most French motorists use diesel, whose price has spiked by 23 percent in the last twelve months to €1.51 per liter — its highest level since the early 2000s, according to the AFP news agency. (In American terms, that’s a whopping $6.53 per gallon.) On top of that, the government has pushed forward with fuel taxes — part of its environmental agenda — that have hiked the price of diesel by 7.6 cents per liter and gasoline by 3.9 cents. It plans a further levy of 6.5 cents on diesel and 2.9 cents on gasoline in January 2019.
Those increases have weighed heavily on rural areas and on what’s known as la France périurbaine, the outer bands of the nation’s urban agglomerations. The diminishing quality of public transit — and of public services — in these parts of the country stands in stark contrast to the well-funded bus and rail network of Paris, feeding into a sense of cultural resentment shared by many protesters.
Many of those donning “yellow vests” are working class: a mix of low-income workers, retirees, and the unemployed. They include people like Bertrand Rocheron, a father of three in his forties who currently works as a part-time middle-school assistant, and commutes seventy kilometers a day from his home in rural Brittany. “My deepest fear is that my car is going to break down, it’s at the end of its days,” he told his regional newspaper. Others are more solidly middle class: mid-level managers or white-collar professionals like Nathalie, a fifty-one-year-old psychiatrist in suburban Paris who earns just above the minimums required for state aid. She told Le Parisien newspaper that she feels like she has “fallen in social status” — this, despite putting in five years of university studies.
Tellingly, the national website for the blockades doesn’t have a page for demands. Protesters are more united by what they oppose than what they favor — and even that isn’t terribly well-developed. There is a sense that fuel prices are out of hand, the broader tax system is unjust, and that this is preventing decent people from living the lives they’d like to be leading. |
A lot of people are trying to get a read on these protests and struggling. It's easy to see them as a parallel to the movements of popular backlash that led to the election of Donald Trump and the vote for Britain to leave the EU, which leads many to characterise it as a far-right populist movement; but the protests are also receiving near-universal support from the left, who see them as a rejection of capitalism and neoliberalism.
Whatever the case, it seems increasingly clear to me that the liberal-capitalist order (the centre-right/centre-left consensus that has dominated Western politics since World War 2) is dying, and that Macron represents its last gasp in France. That is both a scary situation – reminiscent, in many ways, of Europe in the 1930s, in which many countries were caught in a struggle between fascism and Soviet-style communism – and a huge opportunity for a radical progressive politics to emerge. Personally, I have a generally pessimistic disposition and presume that Marine Le Pen will be the next French leader unless the French left sorts itself out and offers a coherent and exciting alternative. But if the alternative is the slow poison of Macron, then you can hardly blame the people of France for wanting to tip the table over.
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stui magpie 
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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1.51 Euro is $2.39 Aus.
Fuel in Aus is expensive but not that bad. If our prices went that high and a government proposed to raise it even further by taxing it "for environmental reasons" i'd expect a similar reaction.
Considering Australia is more than 10 times the size of France and therefore more reliant on moving food by truck, the price of fresh food would also skyrocket.
I don't have a read on macron, have NFI if he's generally doing a good job or bad, probably because I haven't really followed French politics at all.
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Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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He's about as popular as a root canal in France right now, that's for sure.
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ronrat
Joined: 22 May 2006
Location: Thailand
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Sort of off topic but it seems to sum up the French take on economics. For 2 years I lived in an estate of around 300 houses. We had a communal pool and entertainment area in the middle that was ok and reasonably cheap. Russians, British, Thais, Aussies, french and Germans mainly. The committee of management for the pool complex was taken over by the French. So within a week the price of beer went up by 30 percent as did the price of certain spirits and soft drinks. Even icecreams. . But the price of Pernod which these dudes all drank halved to the point where it was being subsidised. So as a result the rest of us stopped going or would go to the little Mom and Pop shop and drink before we entered the complex. The lady who ran the kitchen lived opposite me and it became so unprofitable she walked away. The girl behind the bar quit because she was basically living off tips and when punters stopped coming and buying beer at double the price of the nearby 7-11 it was hardly worth her while. The froggies couldn.t find replacements and that included their own Thai wives.
It was saved when the Thai committee of management for the estate sold the lease to the wife of a Thai copper who lived there who promptly dissolved the community COM and the price of beer was reduced and Pernod (and a few other french products) were increased and despite the French protesting all the rest of us started using the place again and they got food and cleaning back.
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Annoying opposition supporters since 1967. |
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thesoretoothsayer
Joined: 26 Apr 2017
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| Who would have thought that we'd live to again see the sans-culottes, proudly singing the Marseilles, march against foreign tyrants. |
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Skids 
Quitting drinking will be one of the best choices you make in your life.
Joined: 11 Sep 2007
Location: Joined 3/6/02 . Member #175
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France is finished... the rest of Europe hot on it's heels.
Keep letting those poor souls flood your continent, fools!
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Don't count the days, make the days count. |
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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| Skids wrote: | | Keep letting those poor souls flood your continent, fools! |
Yes, the white working class certainly are trouble, aren’t they. 
In all seriousness, there’s a great irony in what you’re suggesting. While it’s true that some gilets jaunes protesters are motivated by anti-immigrant sentiment, the deeper conflict seems to be between rural people (many but far from all of whom are white and French-born; you’ll see plenty of different skin tones in videos of protesters) and the economic policies of their government. That immigrants become scapegoats in such situations is an inevitable and age-old phenomenon, but in this case that is neither the primary motivation (it’s poverty, taxes, rising petrol prices and disillusionment with the government) nor the key demand of the movement. So blaming this all on refugees is not only opportunistic, it’s actually quite instructive as a good example of where anti-refugee hostility tends to arise from and how it is often employed.
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All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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Skids
Quitting drinking will be one of the best choices you make in your life.
Joined: 11 Sep 2007
Location: Joined 3/6/02 . Member #175
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Yeah rite. It's funny how you criticize anything you judge as extreme right views, yet you thrive on leftist views of delusion.
How is bringing in tens of thousands, of non assimilating migrants, going to be anything short of a disaster for France?
Unemployment in France is not only at an alarmingly high level (9.1%); it has been been alarmingly high for years. The number of people in poverty is also high (8.8 million people, 14.2% of the population). Economic growth is effectively non-existent (0.4% in the third quarter of 2018, up from 0.2% the previous three months). The median income (20,520 euros, or $23,000, a year,) is unsustainably low. It indicates that half the French live on less than 1710 euros ($1946) a month. Five million people are surviving on less than 855 euros ($ 973) a month.
One of the few issues Macron did seem eager to work on was Islam. He stressed several times his determination to establish an "Islam of France". What he failed to take into account werethe concerns ofthe rest of the population about the rapid Islamization the country. In June 20, 2017, he said (not quite accurately, for example here, here, here, here, here and here), "No one can make believe that (Muslim) faith is not compatible with the Republic". He also seems to have failed to take into account the risks of Islamic terrorism, which he hardly ever calls by its name. He seems to prefer using the word "terrorism", without an adjective, and simply acknowledges that "there is a radical reading of Islam, whose principles do not respect religious slogans").
The "yellow jackets" now have the support of 84% of the French population. They are demanding Macron's resignation and an immediate change of government. Those who speak on radio and television say that Macron and the government are hopelessly blind and deaf.
https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-12-02/frances-meltdown-macrons-disdain
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Don't count the days, make the days count. |
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stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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Funny isn't it. My daughter and her GF were in France only 2 months ago, cruising around in a VW away from the normal tourist spots, so they did some time in rural G]France and loved it.
Spending school holidays up bush seems to have given her (and my son) appreciation of rural people.
Another interesting thing, despite what we see and hear, 2 mid 20's girls, (both attractive) neither of them obviously physically threatening, never had a single issue with unwanted attention and they put themselves in a few situations where it could have gone bad.
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Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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Wokko 
Come and take it.
Joined: 04 Oct 2005
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France: Vote socialism for 40 years. Be surprised when you get socialism.
Don't get me wrong, I'm all for anti-taxation riots, even revolutions but this is what France has consistently wanted for decades. Now they're finding out if you import the 3rd world into a socialist welfare state then it all starts falling apart. |
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pietillidie
Joined: 07 Jan 2005
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| David wrote: | | Skids wrote: | | Keep letting those poor souls flood your continent, fools! |
Yes, the white working class certainly are trouble, aren’t they.
In all seriousness, there’s a great irony in what you’re suggesting. While it’s true that some gilets jaunes protesters are motivated by anti-immigrant sentiment, the deeper conflict seems to be between rural people (many but far from all of whom are white and French-born; you’ll see plenty of different skin tones in videos of protesters) and the economic policies of their government. That immigrants become scapegoats in such situations is an inevitable and age-old phenomenon, but in this case that is neither the primary motivation (it’s poverty, taxes, rising petrol prices and disillusionment with the government) nor the key demand of the movement. So blaming this all on refugees is not only opportunistic, it’s actually quite instructive as a good example of where anti-refugee hostility tends to arise from and how it is often employed. |
Anything at all to co-opt anger for the cause of primitive race rage. Of course, with the far right and far left piling on the usual race thugs will circle, but this is clearly an economic protest.
The French Wikipedia page translates well into English: https://fr.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mouvement_des_Gilets_jaunes
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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| Skids wrote: | Yeah rite. It's funny how you criticize anything you judge as extreme right views, yet you thrive on leftist views of delusion.
How is bringing in tens of thousands, of non assimilating migrants, going to be anything short of a disaster for France? |
The obvious response is that France is basically at breaking point right now and that it has little if anything to do with immigrants and everything to do with poverty. Those fixated on immigration and who are convinced that it is a sufficient explanation for the protests are chasing a red herring, and are basically presenting as the mirror image of the technocrats who believe that, so long as they are presenting as pro-"diversity" and "inclusiveness", they can screw the working-classes over with regressive tax policies and still claim to be progressives. Neither xenophobic rabble-rousers (who are generally economically ignorant) nor liberal technocrats (who are totally economically callous) seem to be willing or able to acknowledge that economic policies have the biggest political consequences. The “yellow vests” may not have anything like a unified political platform, but at least they understand material politics.
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All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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pietillidie
Joined: 07 Jan 2005
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| Wokko wrote: | France: Vote socialism for 40 years. Be surprised when you get socialism.
Don't get me wrong, I'm all for anti-taxation riots, even revolutions but this is what France has consistently wanted for decades. Now they're finding out if you import the 3rd world into a socialist welfare state then it all starts falling apart. |
That's an even more insipid effort at co-option. It's better to say you don't understand something than to randomly throw your favourite clichés at it.
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In the end the rain comes down, washes clean the streets of a blue sky town.
Help Nick's: http://www.magpies.net/nick/bb/fundraising.htm |
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HAL
Please don't shout at me - I can't help it.
Joined: 17 Mar 2003
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| OK I will try to be surprised when you get socialism |
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pietillidie
Joined: 07 Jan 2005
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| pietillidie wrote: | | Wokko wrote: | France: Vote socialism for 40 years. Be surprised when you get socialism.
Don't get me wrong, I'm all for anti-taxation riots, even revolutions but this is what France has consistently wanted for decades. Now they're finding out if you import the 3rd world into a socialist welfare state then it all starts falling apart. |
That's an even more insipid effort at co-option. It's better to say you don't understand something than to randomly throw your favourite clichés at it. |
France is falling apart! Yet it's not according to virtually any measure you care to look up, and certainly not across the balance of measures.
For a sober assessment of the French economy relative to that of Germany, the UK and the US, Piketty is surely a reputable starting point. Rather than collapse and cliché socialism, instead we see an interesting mix of strengths and weaknesses:
http://piketty.blog.lemonde.fr/2017/01/09/of-productivity-in-france-and-in-germany/
_________________
In the end the rain comes down, washes clean the streets of a blue sky town.
Help Nick's: http://www.magpies.net/nick/bb/fundraising.htm |
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