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How Pies can secure Lynch AND May

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RudeBoy 



Joined: 28 Nov 2005


PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2018 12:46 pm
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I suspect that when we began our negotiations with Lynch, the jury was still out on whether Cox could become a decent player. As it stands, especially with Mihocek, De Goey, WHE and Stephenson as well, our need for another tall forward is not as great as first thought.
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MatthewBoydFanClub 



Joined: 12 Feb 2007
Location: Elwood

PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2018 1:16 pm
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themonk wrote:
MatthewBoydFanClub wrote:
GreekLunatic wrote:
Caro said treloar was off to Richmond too but she couldn't take it to the bank she is making up crap. She does really hate us

I don't think Caro is making it up. I think we are all a bit naïve thinking that Treloar hadn't spoken to Richmond at the time. Simple case of Treloar speaking to Buckley and changing his mind about going to Richmond. Same situation as Lynch. Richmond have been into Lynch for the last two years. I think Lynch is considering his options and evaluating our offer before he makes his mind up. If you believe what you read from various sources Richmond are the frontrunners for securing Lynch's services. Hawthorn have cleared some of their salary cap to make room for Lynch as well and are considered third behind us.


So you think we haven't been into Lynch since last year, now that's a little naive as we had absolutely no forward line 12-18 months ago.

I suspect we are also into Cameron too.


Of course we have been into Lynch for at least the last 12 months. Richmond I'm guessing got to him first because Lynch is mates with a couple of players who made the switch to Richmond. Lynch would be thinking how he fits into a forward line that includes Riewolt. That gives us some sort of running because it's more clear cut with us. But with Hawthorn it's an even better fit for them because Roughead is retiring in a couple of years.
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5 from the wing on debut 



Joined: 27 May 2016


PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2018 1:25 pm
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themonk wrote:
All I'm sensing is people looking at softening the blow if Lynch rejects us.

Why on earth would we not want a key forward via free agency? a young gun that was a Pies fan.

Worried about the long term impact of losing players? let's win a flag & see who wants out?

The time is now!

May, yes we need him but he'll be free next year and we have little room to move via trade.


There are those amongst us that did not want him in the first place and are on the record as saying that.

He was a young gun but he's not any more. My concern was that the best of Lynch has come and gone and after a player has begun the injury/decline in output process over a couple of years it is very hard to turn that around. Lynch is in that category. Notwithstanding that he is likely to be a FA rather than a trade, he would have tied up a spot on the list, with a large chunk of the salary cap, for a lengthy period.
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Doc63 



Joined: 06 May 2004
Location: Newport

PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2018 1:32 pm
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I'd rather have May for next season. Much more an urgent need for a key back at the moment.
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Haff Capricorn



Joined: 25 Apr 2016


PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2018 1:59 pm
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Lose Moore and gain May is a good outcome. Guessing GCS would want more than the equivalent draft picks so if we lost Moore and Thomas and got May and a second rounder back that seems right.
Assuming Moore goes to Sydney and we get a dirt rounder and ship that and Thomas to GCS.
Our FWD line is operating well so our priority has to be the backline.

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Haff Capricorn



Joined: 25 Apr 2016


PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2018 1:59 pm
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*first rounder
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qldmagpie67 



Joined: 18 Dec 2008


PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2018 9:23 am
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Put a line through Lynch's name he's off to the Tigers folks
Have it from a reliable source they've juggled there cap around enough to accommodate his salary requirements by extending both Cotchin and Reidwoldt. My source says that Lynch's manager will inform the pies of his decision in the next 7-10 days
On further bad news May is likely to be offered a long term deal at the Suns with AFL ambassador money that was going to go to Lynch now going to May
The AFL are absolutely filthy that Lynch didn't take there money on offer
While publicly they aren't saying much privately they are fuming as the Suns will be set back even further now
Don't be surprised to see the AFL after this seasons trade and draft period make adjustments to the free agency rules
I've heard it would be along the lines of (using Lynch as an example)
If the calculated compo pick would be pick the 3 the team who wishes to Aquire the player must either (a) come up with an equivalent pick or (b) have the amounts of points associated to that pick deducted from there draft pick values that season
Meaning if pick 3 is valued at 2234 points the Tigers would have to make up that amount of points value
There 1st & 2nd round value picks this year total just over 1400 so they would either have to be in deficit in 2019 or trade out other players to trade in drafts picks this season to use

Thought behind this is the AFL are paying the compo pick on behalf of the clubs now. By making the clubs pay it out of there own draft picks means clubs will be more selective on who they chase under free agency and stop those clubs from still stock piling other talent from that draft
In a draft like this years 2018 being so strong even picks as low as 30-35 could find some very good players
If the players in the top 20-25 are as good as projected the Tigers basically would add Lynch and under normal circumstances what could be viewed as a top 10 draft pick without having to use anything other than cap space
It will be interesting to see what happens over the next 6-12 months with the AFL trying to stop the top draft picks leaving interstate clubs
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Boogie Knights 



Joined: 18 Sep 2015


PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2018 10:18 am
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^^^ Can't see this happening Qldmagpie re. the changes mentioned to FA. This would mean that there is no FREE agency at all - it is simply another form of trade... trading draft points for the compo pick for the player which flies in the face of FREE agency.

Free agency was not introduced as an equalisation method as seems to be the argument being bandied about at present. It was to appease the players association by not restricting trade.
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MightyMagpie 



Joined: 04 Jun 2013
Location: WA

PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2018 10:28 am
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^^^ What QMP has raised is very similar to something I read online yesterday.

It is very close to the MLB model before the last or second last CBA. You would expect that the Players Association will be against the giving up of a pick/points because it is a restraint on the free agency they have been pushing for.

The new MLB CBA dropped the giving up of a pick aspect of signing a FA so clubs now just receive a "created" new pick in a supplemental round at the end of the first round (pretty similar, although without the various levels, to AFL).

FA compensation is part of the CBA so what the AFL want is irrelevant if they can't get the Players Association to agree.

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tbaker 



Joined: 02 Jul 2018
Location: Q19 Southern Stand MCG

PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2018 10:45 am
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Haff wrote:
Lose Moore and gain May is a good outcome. Guessing GCS would want more than the equivalent draft picks so if we lost Moore and Thomas and got May and a second rounder back that seems right.
Assuming Moore goes to Sydney and we get a dirt rounder and ship that and Thomas to GCS.
Our FWD line is operating well so our priority has to be the backline.

Can't see that being a good outcome. Get Moore's body right and he will be a powerful defender.

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themonk 



Joined: 02 Mar 2004


PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2018 11:29 am
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5 from the wing on debut wrote:
themonk wrote:
All I'm sensing is people looking at softening the blow if Lynch rejects us.

Why on earth would we not want a key forward via free agency? a young gun that was a Pies fan.

Worried about the long term impact of losing players? let's win a flag & see who wants out?

The time is now!

May, yes we need him but he'll be free next year and we have little room to move via trade.


There are those amongst us that did not want him in the first place and are on the record as saying that.

He was a young gun but he's not any more. My concern was that the best of Lynch has come and gone and after a player has begun the injury/decline in output process over a couple of years it is very hard to turn that around. Lynch is in that category. Notwithstanding that he is likely to be a FA rather than a trade, he would have tied up a spot on the list, with a large chunk of the salary cap, for a lengthy period.


Richmond & Hawthorn must not know what they are doing?

Furthermore we have shown our hand in that we want him & whoever we want we should get.
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5 from the wing on debut 



Joined: 27 May 2016


PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2018 11:51 am
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themonk wrote:
5 from the wing on debut wrote:
themonk wrote:
All I'm sensing is people looking at softening the blow if Lynch rejects us.

Why on earth would we not want a key forward via free agency? a young gun that was a Pies fan.

Worried about the long term impact of losing players? let's win a flag & see who wants out?

The time is now!

May, yes we need him but he'll be free next year and we have little room to move via trade.


There are those amongst us that did not want him in the first place and are on the record as saying that.

He was a young gun but he's not any more. My concern was that the best of Lynch has come and gone and after a player has begun the injury/decline in output process over a couple of years it is very hard to turn that around. Lynch is in that category. Notwithstanding that he is likely to be a FA rather than a trade, he would have tied up a spot on the list, with a large chunk of the salary cap, for a lengthy period.


Richmond & Hawthorn must not know what they are doing?

Furthermore we have shown our hand in that we want him & whoever we want we should get.


Richmond & Hawthorn don't know what they are doing, they are speculating, as I am. And as you are. I could give you a very long list of trades that have gone wrong at every club. Clubs always have, and always will, done well on some trades and not so well on others. We could argue back and forth as to the value of Lynch but performance in the future is the only thing that will settle the issue.

I can't work out whether you are serious or not when you say "whoever we want we should get". I don't see how that proposition can be true. Why would that be the case? There are 17 teams apart from us. Lynch grew up a Pies supporter and he has rejected us if the media reports are correct.
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themonk 



Joined: 02 Mar 2004


PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2018 1:10 pm
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5 from the wing on debut wrote:
themonk wrote:
5 from the wing on debut wrote:
themonk wrote:
All I'm sensing is people looking at softening the blow if Lynch rejects us.

Why on earth would we not want a key forward via free agency? a young gun that was a Pies fan.

Worried about the long term impact of losing players? let's win a flag & see who wants out?

The time is now!

May, yes we need him but he'll be free next year and we have little room to move via trade.


There are those amongst us that did not want him in the first place and are on the record as saying that.

He was a young gun but he's not any more. My concern was that the best of Lynch has come and gone and after a player has begun the injury/decline in output process over a couple of years it is very hard to turn that around. Lynch is in that category. Notwithstanding that he is likely to be a FA rather than a trade, he would have tied up a spot on the list, with a large chunk of the salary cap, for a lengthy period.


Richmond & Hawthorn must not know what they are doing?

Furthermore we have shown our hand in that we want him & whoever we want we should get.


Richmond & Hawthorn don't know what they are doing, they are speculating, as I am. And as you are. I could give you a very long list of trades that have gone wrong at every club. Clubs always have, and always will, done well on some trades and not so well on others. We could argue back and forth as to the value of Lynch but performance in the future is the only thing that will settle the issue.

I can't work out whether you are serious or not when you say "whoever we want we should get". I don't see how that proposition can be true. Why would that be the case? There are 17 teams apart from us. Lynch grew up a Pies supporter and he has rejected us if the media reports are correct.


Yes I'm speculating, as is the media regarding Lynch's preference, however I hope we are a professional club that identified Lynch as a priority 12-18 months ago and if we are not able to entice and convince players to commit to us then we have some issues that need sorting out. Richmond like us were nothing 18 months ago.

Forget the other 17 clubs, we still are and have always been a huge club and all players should be tempted by any offer we make, in particular a former pies fan.
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5 from the wing on debut 



Joined: 27 May 2016


PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2018 1:25 pm
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themonk wrote:
5 from the wing on debut wrote:
themonk wrote:
5 from the wing on debut wrote:
themonk wrote:
All I'm sensing is people looking at softening the blow if Lynch rejects us.

Why on earth would we not want a key forward via free agency? a young gun that was a Pies fan.

Worried about the long term impact of losing players? let's win a flag & see who wants out?

The time is now!

May, yes we need him but he'll be free next year and we have little room to move via trade.


There are those amongst us that did not want him in the first place and are on the record as saying that.

He was a young gun but he's not any more. My concern was that the best of Lynch has come and gone and after a player has begun the injury/decline in output process over a couple of years it is very hard to turn that around. Lynch is in that category. Notwithstanding that he is likely to be a FA rather than a trade, he would have tied up a spot on the list, with a large chunk of the salary cap, for a lengthy period.


Richmond & Hawthorn must not know what they are doing?

Furthermore we have shown our hand in that we want him & whoever we want we should get.


Richmond & Hawthorn don't know what they are doing, they are speculating, as I am. And as you are. I could give you a very long list of trades that have gone wrong at every club. Clubs always have, and always will, done well on some trades and not so well on others. We could argue back and forth as to the value of Lynch but performance in the future is the only thing that will settle the issue.

I can't work out whether you are serious or not when you say "whoever we want we should get". I don't see how that proposition can be true. Why would that be the case? There are 17 teams apart from us. Lynch grew up a Pies supporter and he has rejected us if the media reports are correct.


Yes I'm speculating, as is the media regarding Lynch's preference, however I hope we are a professional club that identified Lynch as a priority 12-18 months ago and if we are not able to entice and convince players to commit to us then we have some issues that need sorting out. Richmond like us were nothing 18 months ago.

Forget the other 17 clubs, we still are and have always been a huge club and all players should be tempted by any offer we make, in particular a former pies fan.


Your last sentence was said in the spirit of a true Pies fan, but it was also what our board thought in the late 70's when Bernie Quinlan wanted to leave the Dogs and to play for Hafey. The result of that was that we, the powerhouse club, were not prepared to match the pittance that the almost insolvent Fitzroy offered him. I have mentioned this before and how our history may have been different had we been commercial in our dealings and not relied upon the belief that we were better than everyone else so players should want to play for us for less. I still can't fathom that that occurred. Put Quinlan into the 79, 80 and 81 GF teams and we may have won in 79 and 81.
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qldmagpie67 



Joined: 18 Dec 2008


PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2018 1:52 pm
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MightyMagpie wrote:
^^^ What QMP has raised is very similar to something I read online yesterday.

It is very close to the MLB model before the last or second last CBA. You would expect that the Players Association will be against the giving up of a pick/points because it is a restraint on the free agency they have been pushing for.

The new MLB CBA dropped the giving up of a pick aspect of signing a FA so clubs now just receive a "created" new pick in a supplemental round at the end of the first round (pretty similar, although without the various levels, to AFL).

FA compensation is part of the CBA so what the AFL want is irrelevant if they can't get the Players Association to agree.


MM I'm not sure where the person who told me got it from but it did seem partially logical and he was quite adamant his mail was good
Obviously nothing can happen without the AFLPA agreeing to it but the AFL can sweeten other pots to make it happen if need be
Sooner or later a player or group of players will challenge everything from the draft to free agency in court and the whole system will crash down as it is for all intents and purposes a restraint of trade.
The NRL have wanted a draft for years and the players have stopped it all times no matter how much money is offered up as a sweetener
The NRL system is a mess. A player can be contracted to your club and sign a new deal with another club during that season be paraded before the new clubs fans in his new uniform whilst still playing and being paid by his current club. It's a absolute farce really
Also if a club wants to move a player on they can without the players consent basically as login as the players contract is honoured.
The NRL system is a total disgrace but they have been running scared for years about a player backlash if they tried to bring in a draft or restrict player movement
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