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David 
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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On the contrary, I feel like that book might be an interesting (if unintentional) insight into the far-right mind. Its language (and concept) of swarms of foreigners overwhelming the West is very much of the kind used by Breitbart journalists and readers; no surprise, given how much the book seems to have influenced the thinking of Bannon (Breitbarts head honcho) on immigration. What seems core to the novel is its dehumanisation and primal fear of the other and these, after all, are the core ingredients of xenophobia. Many garden-variety Trumpistas may never have heard of the novel let alone read it, but I expect a lot of them would (at best) see an uncomfortable reflection of their own ideology therein if they ever chanced upon it.
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All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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HAL
Please don't shout at me - I can't help it.
Joined: 17 Mar 2003
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| Can you remember the website? seems core to the novel something. |
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Mugwump
Joined: 28 Jul 2007
Location: Between London and Melbourne
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| David wrote: | | On the contrary, I feel like that book might be an interesting (if unintentional) insight into the far-right mind. Its language (and concept) of swarms of foreigners overwhelming the West is very much of the kind used by Breitbart journalists and readers; no surprise, given how much the book seems to have influenced the thinking of Bannon (Breitbarts head honcho) on immigration. What seems core to the novel is its dehumanisation and primal fear of the other and these, after all, are the core ingredients of xenophobia. Many garden-variety Trumpistas may never have heard of the novel let alone read it, but I expect a lot of them would (at best) see an uncomfortable reflection of their own ideology therein if they ever chanced upon it. |
Oh, no doubt some people - and some Trumpistas - do indeed hold these rather pathological views. Despite the fervid inferences of some who disagree with him here, I dont see much evidence that Skids does. One should not confuse a general direction with a destination, when there are many destinations in that direction. Hell, even some Social Democrats arent filled with hate and dont erect gulags. 
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Two more flags before I die! |
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stui magpie 
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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| Pies4shaw wrote: | | stui magpie wrote: | | Pies4shaw wrote: | | Mugwump wrote: | | Pies4shaw wrote: | | Although you both raise interesting points, you each seem to have gone straight to the periphery. Why, since 1945, is it OK to write on here about black Africans as a "plague devouring" the "world"? I am actually embarrassed and ashamed that such rubbish is permitted to remain on Nick's. The Mods may as well let people use the "n" word, except that the "n" word is probably not (quite) as offensive as that post. Calling people from anywhere a "plague devouring" the "world" isn't a view. It isn't an opinion. It is just prejudice. |
I didnt read it as being about black Africans, partly because the people referenced in the article about Korea were not black, but Yemenis (and thus quite possibly genuine refugees). I assume that the plague Skids refers to is illegal migration, which is certainly a massive problem, whatever word one wishes to apply to it. It has fuelled the rise of Trump, Brexit, the recovery of far right politics in Germany and populist governments in Italy, Hungary and Poland inter alia. Enabled by a too-liberal interpretation of the concept of asylum, migration is pushing us back to an age a dangerous nationalism. Plague is a strong word where large numbers of alien people are concerned, but I presumed it was the common colloquial usage about the issue, rather than a literal one about the people. |
The oracle has subsequently clarified his position - it seems that he was describing Islam - and not just black Africans - as a plague devouring the world. So, it seems - if I understand his logic - that the reason for adding some vilification of Yemenis to a thread about vilifying Sudanese people is that they're each only a part of his wider plague devouring the world. I'm glad we've cleared that up.    |
If you had of watched even the first 30 seconds of the video he linked to, instead of making the rookie mistake of jumping at the headline, that would have been clear.
The video opens up with the statement that 500,000 people have signed a petition rejecting Muslim immigration into their country. Who are these white trash? Sth Korea.
Interestingly, the majority religion in Sth Sudan appears to be Christian, whereas it's Islam in Sudan. The tall African women bowling around Heidelberg in their batman suits are mostly somalian muslims, who seem to take a less rigorous approach that the Arab world, most of the women I see just cover the head not the face, and usually with a colourful scarf, not the drab black. |
Rookie mistake? Hardly. Have a read of Skids 2 posts again and tell me why his views arent simply prejudiced views unacceptable in a civilised discussion. Id ask him - but I fully accept that hes incapable of giving a reasoned response. |
I would say that having serious concerns about any large scale immigration of muslims into western society is not only not prejudiced, but eminently sensible and it would be far better if it we were able to have civilised conversations about it.
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Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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Pies4shaw 
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
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| You should speak to Skids about that, then. |
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Pies4shaw
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
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| Mugwump wrote: | ^ Well, that book sounds like it comes from the National Socialists book of the week offer, but since Skids has never mentioned it, and he writes about things that have actually happened rather than grotesque fantasies, and hes explained that the plague he was referring to was Islam, is it really fair to imply that he holds views like those of this book ?
It is possible to love ones own culture, and to dislike mass, unmanaged immigration without endorsing the KkK. Best to let peoples actual words define their views, rather than put books in their mouth. |
Skids was condemned by his own words. I merely expressed my reasonable disgust at his bile. If you dont want to accept the obvious, I cant be concerned about that. Life is too short to put up with mealy-mouthed apologists. |
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stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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| Pies4shaw wrote: | | You should speak to Skids about that, then. |
You're not up for a civilised conversation on the topic, or you don't consider the topic civilised?
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Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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Mugwump
Joined: 28 Jul 2007
Location: Between London and Melbourne
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| Pies4shaw wrote: | | Mugwump wrote: | ^ Well, that book sounds like it comes from the National Socialists book of the week offer, but since Skids has never mentioned it, and he writes about things that have actually happened rather than grotesque fantasies, and hes explained that the plague he was referring to was Islam, is it really fair to imply that he holds views like those of this book ?
It is possible to love ones own culture, and to dislike mass, unmanaged immigration without endorsing the KkK. Best to let peoples actual words define their views, rather than put books in their mouth. |
Skids was condemned by his own words. I merely expressed my reasonable disgust at his bile. If you dont want to accept the obvious, I cant be concerned about that. Life is too short to put up with mealy-mouthed apologists. |
He has stated clearly what he meant, which was a plausible explanation. You didnt look at the link he initially posted and made a false assumption as a result. Stamp your foot and insist on your own contested narrative about someone elses meaning all you like, it wont make it correct.
As for my being a mealy-mouthed apologist, your ad hominem reflex might need seeing to. A nasty streak is an ill camouflage for a bad argument.
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Two more flags before I die! |
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watt price tully 
Joined: 15 May 2007
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| Pies4shaw wrote: | | Mugwump wrote: | ^ Well, that book sounds like it comes from the National Socialists book of the week offer, but since Skids has never mentioned it, and he writes about things that have actually happened rather than grotesque fantasies, and hes explained that the plague he was referring to was Islam, is it really fair to imply that he holds views like those of this book ?
It is possible to love ones own culture, and to dislike mass, unmanaged immigration without endorsing the KkK. Best to let peoples actual words define their views, rather than put books in their mouth. |
Skids was condemned by his own words. I merely expressed my reasonable disgust at his bile. If you dont want to accept the obvious, I cant be concerned about that. Life is too short to put up with mealy-mouthed apologists. |
Look pal. In your Ivory Tower in North Melbourne you wouldn't have a clue about muslims in your neighbourhood.
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“I even went as far as becoming a Southern Baptist until I realised they didn’t keep ‘em under long enough” Kinky Friedman |
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watt price tully
Joined: 15 May 2007
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| Pies4shaw wrote: | | Mugwump wrote: | ^ Well, that book sounds like it comes from the National Socialists book of the week offer, but since Skids has never mentioned it, and he writes about things that have actually happened rather than grotesque fantasies, and hes explained that the plague he was referring to was Islam, is it really fair to imply that he holds views like those of this book ?
It is possible to love ones own culture, and to dislike mass, unmanaged immigration without endorsing the KkK. Best to let peoples actual words define their views, rather than put books in their mouth. |
Skids was condemned by his own words. I merely expressed my reasonable disgust at his bile. ........ |
Quite right. You are correct.
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“I even went as far as becoming a Southern Baptist until I realised they didn’t keep ‘em under long enough” Kinky Friedman |
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HAL
Please don't shout at me - I can't help it.
Joined: 17 Mar 2003
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| never mentioned it and he writes about things that happened rather than grotesque fantasies and hes explained that the plague I was referring to was Islam is it fair to imply that he holds views like those of this book is love ones own culture and to dislike mass unmanaged immigration without endorsing the KkK? love ones own culture and to dislike mass unmanaged immigration without endorsing the KkK is? |
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Pies4shaw
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
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| Mugwump wrote: | | Pies4shaw wrote: | | Mugwump wrote: | ^ Well, that book sounds like it comes from the National Socialists book of the week offer, but since Skids has never mentioned it, and he writes about things that have actually happened rather than grotesque fantasies, and hes explained that the plague he was referring to was Islam, is it really fair to imply that he holds views like those of this book ?
It is possible to love ones own culture, and to dislike mass, unmanaged immigration without endorsing the KkK. Best to let peoples actual words define their views, rather than put books in their mouth. |
Skids was condemned by his own words. I merely expressed my reasonable disgust at his bile. If you dont want to accept the obvious, I cant be concerned about that. Life is too short to put up with mealy-mouthed apologists. |
He has stated clearly what he meant, which was a plausible explanation. You didnt look at the link he initially posted and made a false assumption as a result. Stamp your foot and insist on your own contested narrative about someone elses meaning all you like, it wont make it correct.
As for my being a mealy-mouthed apologist, your ad hominem reflex might need seeing to. A nasty streak is an ill camouflage for a bad argument. |
Yes - and what he meant turned out to be worse than what I originally thought. Stop defending the indefensible. Skids position on such matters is shameful and disgusting. Your apologia, however, is worse. Moreover, it merely serves to demonstrate - quite clearly - how nasty, divisive, outrageous and unhinged your own views are once the surface is scratched. |
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HAL
Please don't shout at me - I can't help it.
Joined: 17 Mar 2003
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| What else is an ill camouflage for a bad argument ? |
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Mugwump
Joined: 28 Jul 2007
Location: Between London and Melbourne
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^ said what I needed to say. If you cannot disagree without personal invective, its best bypassed.
_________________
Two more flags before I die!
Last edited by Mugwump on Fri Jul 27, 2018 10:08 am; edited 1 time in total |
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HAL
Please don't shout at me - I can't help it.
Joined: 17 Mar 2003
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| How specifically do you make me bought into that conversation to upbraid us for failing to take up your interpretation of Skids post |
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