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HAL
Please don't shout at me - I can't help it.
Joined: 17 Mar 2003
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| I am sure he would like to hear that. |
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Piethagoras' Theorem 
the hypotenuse, is always a cakewalk
Joined: 29 May 2006
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he was good to train last week too
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Formally frankiboy and FrankieGoesToCollingwood. |
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swoop42 
Whatcha gonna do when he comes for you?
Joined: 02 Aug 2008
Location: The 18
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| E wrote: | | swoop42 wrote: | With players like Elliott, Moore, Fasolo and Aish returning from injury I think Varcoe is one who should make way in coming weeks
Varcoe will produce a couple of flashy moments per game or an occasional strong tackle that gets people excited but if you take a look at his stats it's an indication of a player who has been in decline for quite sometime.
Varcoe simply doesn't hit the scoreboard enough for a forward for mine and when he does is to inaccurate.
He has a total of 3.6 from 11 games this season, kicked 2.1 goals from 8 games in 2017 and 6.13 from 17 games in 2016.
Even in his first season when he was lauded he still only managed 10.10 from 22 games.
This is miles off his highs of 31.13 and 31.17 for Geelong in 2010/11.
Even his much vaunted tackle pressure has declined from an average of 4.05 in 2015 to 2.64 now.
This has also been mirrored with a decline in average possession from 17.18 in 2015 to now 12.73.
We have better options IMO. |
To think that we need Varcoe for his scoring is absurd. watch the game more carefully. Last thing we need is his scoring. He is no longer the player he used to be, but boy does he do some nice things in a game.
His pressure acts. His hitting packs front and center at just the right time. His sure hands in a contest. These skills set him apart from others on our team.
We have goal kickers. |
So you're going with the Blair defence. 
We had what 3 goal kickers against West Coast?
You can never have enough goal kickers to call upon and you never stop looking to replace an individual with a better talent within the same position.
Elliott and Fasolo offer more as forwards IMO and unlike Varcoe are in the prime period of a career.
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He's mad. He's bad. He's MaynHARD! |
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Albert Parker
Joined: 13 Dec 2012
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| Duff Soviet Union wrote: | | Dave The Man wrote: | Aish for Mayne
Elliot for Varcoe
Moore for Daicos?
Treloar for ? |
Unless we're playing Geelong, Greenwood. |
This. Daicos may be too slight against Richmond this week. North game him time and space and a lack of physicality. That changes against the Tigers.
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One team, one dream - the Pies and this year's premiership |
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Albert Parker
Joined: 13 Dec 2012
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| swoop42 wrote: | | E wrote: | | swoop42 wrote: | With players like Elliott, Moore, Fasolo and Aish returning from injury I think Varcoe is one who should make way in coming weeks
Varcoe will produce a couple of flashy moments per game or an occasional strong tackle that gets people excited but if you take a look at his stats it's an indication of a player who has been in decline for quite sometime.
Varcoe simply doesn't hit the scoreboard enough for a forward for mine and when he does is to inaccurate.
He has a total of 3.6 from 11 games this season, kicked 2.1 goals from 8 games in 2017 and 6.13 from 17 games in 2016.
Even in his first season when he was lauded he still only managed 10.10 from 22 games.
This is miles off his highs of 31.13 and 31.17 for Geelong in 2010/11.
Even his much vaunted tackle pressure has declined from an average of 4.05 in 2015 to 2.64 now.
This has also been mirrored with a decline in average possession from 17.18 in 2015 to now 12.73.
We have better options IMO. |
To think that we need Varcoe for his scoring is absurd. watch the game more carefully. Last thing we need is his scoring. He is no longer the player he used to be, but boy does he do some nice things in a game.
His pressure acts. His hitting packs front and center at just the right time. His sure hands in a contest. These skills set him apart from others on our team.
We have goal kickers. |
So you're going with the Blair defence.
We had what 3 goal kickers against West Coast?
You can never have enough goal kickers to call upon and you never stop looking to replace an individual with a better talent within the same position.
Elliott and Fasolo offer more as forwards IMO and unlike Varcoe are in the prime period of a career. |
Good perspective Swoop. Elliott offers better forward pressure than Fasolo and is the better option amongst these two options.
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One team, one dream - the Pies and this year's premiership |
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Albert Parker
Joined: 13 Dec 2012
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Moore said he will likely be available this week. Reasonable match up for Riewoldt although Howe may be able to get the job done on him. Not sure about Howe (86kg) body-to-body against Riewoldt (93kg) though. Jack's a smart footballer and will adapt his approach accordingly.
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One team, one dream - the Pies and this year's premiership |
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E
Joined: 05 May 2010
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| swoop42 wrote: | | E wrote: | | swoop42 wrote: | With players like Elliott, Moore, Fasolo and Aish returning from injury I think Varcoe is one who should make way in coming weeks
Varcoe will produce a couple of flashy moments per game or an occasional strong tackle that gets people excited but if you take a look at his stats it's an indication of a player who has been in decline for quite sometime.
Varcoe simply doesn't hit the scoreboard enough for a forward for mine and when he does is to inaccurate.
He has a total of 3.6 from 11 games this season, kicked 2.1 goals from 8 games in 2017 and 6.13 from 17 games in 2016.
Even in his first season when he was lauded he still only managed 10.10 from 22 games.
This is miles off his highs of 31.13 and 31.17 for Geelong in 2010/11.
Even his much vaunted tackle pressure has declined from an average of 4.05 in 2015 to 2.64 now.
This has also been mirrored with a decline in average possession from 17.18 in 2015 to now 12.73.
We have better options IMO. |
To think that we need Varcoe for his scoring is absurd. watch the game more carefully. Last thing we need is his scoring. He is no longer the player he used to be, but boy does he do some nice things in a game.
His pressure acts. His hitting packs front and center at just the right time. His sure hands in a contest. These skills set him apart from others on our team.
We have goal kickers. |
So you're going with the Blair defence.
We had what 3 goal kickers against West Coast?
You can never have enough goal kickers to call upon and you never stop looking to replace an individual with a better talent within the same position.
Elliott and Fasolo offer more as forwards IMO and unlike Varcoe are in the prime period of a career. |
No you are right. We should drop every player in the team who cant kick more goals. Let's get rid of Howe for starters. He was a much better goal kicker when he was with Melbourne. Clearly he is in decline at this point in his career. Also, in the last few weeks (as he has had to take on a task of shutting down various beasts), his stats are Way down.
I mean seriously......
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Ohhh, the Premiership's a cakewalk ....... |
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MightyMagpie
Joined: 04 Jun 2013
Location: WA
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Per Jon Ralph
Tyson Goldsack back Round 21 in the VFL as long as he gets through two full weeks of training. Incredible really. 19 weeks post-ACL recovery right now.
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All We Can Be |
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swoop42
Whatcha gonna do when he comes for you?
Joined: 02 Aug 2008
Location: The 18
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| E wrote: | | swoop42 wrote: | | E wrote: | | swoop42 wrote: | With players like Elliott, Moore, Fasolo and Aish returning from injury I think Varcoe is one who should make way in coming weeks
Varcoe will produce a couple of flashy moments per game or an occasional strong tackle that gets people excited but if you take a look at his stats it's an indication of a player who has been in decline for quite sometime.
Varcoe simply doesn't hit the scoreboard enough for a forward for mine and when he does is to inaccurate.
He has a total of 3.6 from 11 games this season, kicked 2.1 goals from 8 games in 2017 and 6.13 from 17 games in 2016.
Even in his first season when he was lauded he still only managed 10.10 from 22 games.
This is miles off his highs of 31.13 and 31.17 for Geelong in 2010/11.
Even his much vaunted tackle pressure has declined from an average of 4.05 in 2015 to 2.64 now.
This has also been mirrored with a decline in average possession from 17.18 in 2015 to now 12.73.
We have better options IMO. |
To think that we need Varcoe for his scoring is absurd. watch the game more carefully. Last thing we need is his scoring. He is no longer the player he used to be, but boy does he do some nice things in a game.
His pressure acts. His hitting packs front and center at just the right time. His sure hands in a contest. These skills set him apart from others on our team.
We have goal kickers. |
So you're going with the Blair defence.
We had what 3 goal kickers against West Coast?
You can never have enough goal kickers to call upon and you never stop looking to replace an individual with a better talent within the same position.
Elliott and Fasolo offer more as forwards IMO and unlike Varcoe are in the prime period of a career. |
No you are right. We should drop every player in the team who cant kick more goals. Let's get rid of Howe for starters. He was a much better goal kicker when he was with Melbourne. Clearly he is in decline at this point in his career. Also, in the last few weeks (as he has had to take on a task of shutting down various beasts), his stats are Way down.
I mean seriously...... |
Howe isn't in the side as a forward. Neither is Pendlebury, Phillips and plenty of others.
Varcoe is and he is currently the weakest link.
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He's mad. He's bad. He's MaynHARD! |
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E
Joined: 05 May 2010
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| swoop42 wrote: | | E wrote: | | swoop42 wrote: | | E wrote: | | swoop42 wrote: | With players like Elliott, Moore, Fasolo and Aish returning from injury I think Varcoe is one who should make way in coming weeks
Varcoe will produce a couple of flashy moments per game or an occasional strong tackle that gets people excited but if you take a look at his stats it's an indication of a player who has been in decline for quite sometime.
Varcoe simply doesn't hit the scoreboard enough for a forward for mine and when he does is to inaccurate.
He has a total of 3.6 from 11 games this season, kicked 2.1 goals from 8 games in 2017 and 6.13 from 17 games in 2016.
Even in his first season when he was lauded he still only managed 10.10 from 22 games.
This is miles off his highs of 31.13 and 31.17 for Geelong in 2010/11.
Even his much vaunted tackle pressure has declined from an average of 4.05 in 2015 to 2.64 now.
This has also been mirrored with a decline in average possession from 17.18 in 2015 to now 12.73.
We have better options IMO. |
To think that we need Varcoe for his scoring is absurd. watch the game more carefully. Last thing we need is his scoring. He is no longer the player he used to be, but boy does he do some nice things in a game.
His pressure acts. His hitting packs front and center at just the right time. His sure hands in a contest. These skills set him apart from others on our team.
We have goal kickers. |
So you're going with the Blair defence.
We had what 3 goal kickers against West Coast?
You can never have enough goal kickers to call upon and you never stop looking to replace an individual with a better talent within the same position.
Elliott and Fasolo offer more as forwards IMO and unlike Varcoe are in the prime period of a career. |
No you are right. We should drop every player in the team who cant kick more goals. Let's get rid of Howe for starters. He was a much better goal kicker when he was with Melbourne. Clearly he is in decline at this point in his career. Also, in the last few weeks (as he has had to take on a task of shutting down various beasts), his stats are Way down.
I mean seriously...... |
Howe isn't in the side as a forward. Neither is Pendlebury, Phillips and plenty of others.
Varcoe is and he is currently the weakest link. |
I dont think you have paid enough attention to his role.
A great game by Varcoe is a game where there are about a half dozen times where you feel like he was a major contributor to a goal.
Like for example, when the ball is kicked to the high half forward about 80 out from goal and he hits the pack just as the ball is smothered and it juist happens to fall right into his lap, leading to the overlap and an easy goal opportunity.
Or like when there is a mayhem ball and his sure hands and speed help to turn a 50/50 ball into a pretty simple goal scoring chance about 2 possessions later.
This is the type of stuff DeGoey used to do ALL the time when we played him as a high half forward over the past 2 years and no one noticed (which is why everyone thought he was overrated until this season) because most fans dont look closely enough (especially the guys who judge players by a review of their career stat lines...... Its only when DeGoey was plonked opne out in the goal square that he starting kicking three to five a game.
In all seriousness mate. I agree he might not be the player he was. He might even be vulnerable to being replaced IF we get the right players back. But you are being lazy to say that the reason he should be dropped is his failure to kick goals. His role is to set up goals, not kick them. And he was really good on the weekend in that role.
Personally, i think Maurray, greenwood and Daicos are more vulnerable than Varcoe, but he is definitely one of the 7 guys on the team who arent assured a spot each week. Those 7 from this week are (in order from safest to most vulnerable):
Mihocek, Sier, Mayne, Varcoe, Greenwood, Daicos, Murray.
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Ohhh, the Premiership's a cakewalk ....... |
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qldmagpie67
Joined: 18 Dec 2008
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| Duff Soviet Union wrote: | I was just going to make a post about this:
I'd actually say Treloar is the one no doubt in if he's healthy. I'd say Elliot is pretty close and the op is forgetting Fasolo and Reid.
I'm assuming Wells and Goldsack are both done, regardless of the rumour mills / club spin.
I'd say one of Moore and Reid has to come back. Scharenberg has a spot in our 22, but he should *never* again be asked to stand a key forward. NEVER. He is probably the worst one on one defender in the entire comp, and basically an automatic shot on goal conceded if put in that situation. I lean towards Moore at the moment. The other alternative is one goes back, one goes forward, but I wouldn't do that, unless Cox is injured.
I think Elliot should come back. I'd say this would give JDG more time to play in the midfield, where I think he's at his best. He's a mid who goes forward, not a full time forward. I don't want to see Elliot and Fasolo playing together, that combo has never really worked, they're just too similar to each other.
So the question is who goes out:
Greenwood - To me, he should never get a game unless he's used as a tagger, which, for whatever reason, doesn't seem to happen much. He doesn't get much of the ball and he generally doesn't use it well. He's basically a very poor man's Taylor Adams.
Varcoe - Basically another low possession guy who doesn't use it very well. Right now, he's a guy with decent speed and defensive pressure who doesn't do much. Isn't this Jarryd Blair?
Daicos - certainly won't get dropped on yesterday's form, but can he keep doing that? Another low possession guy, but at least he uses it pretty well even if it is only over a shortish distance.
Sier - Only mentioning him on the "last man in / first out" theory, but I like him a lot and I think he's cemented a spot even if Treloar comes back. Big body, tackles well, uses it reasonably well although, again, he doesn't get much of it. I don't see a future star here, but he can be a good long term player.
Murray - I agree with AN Inkling here. He should stay in. I'd definitely play him over Appleby and Greenwood in the back 6. Yeah, he's frustrating, but his run and carry is needed in this team.
Mayne - I'm just about done with him. How many times yesterday did he get the ball in space and start running backwards? He slows our ball movement down whenever he touches it. I'd bring in Aish for him. Aish doesn't get it much, but something good normally happens when he does.
Mihocek - Hasn't quite locked up a best 22 spot yet, but he's close. Something good always happens when he gets the ball. I just wish he got it more than about 8 times a game. Still, he can take a mark and is a great kick and isn't too slow, so I'd play him over Reid / Moore as the second tall.
I'd say our 22 should look as follows come Finals time:
B: Murray Moore Langdon
HB: Scharenberg Howe Crisp
M: Treloar Pendlebury Phillips
HF: De Goey Mihocek Stephenson
F: Hoskin Elliot Cox Elliot
R: Grundy Sidebottom Adams
INT: Maynard Sier Aish Daicos
Edit: Left out Josh Thomas. He can replace Aish. |
Your comments about Scharenberg are completely wrong.
Your right on one front he isn't a key defender and shouldn't be on the oppositions biggest forward. That wasn't what he was drafted for
Champion data have him conceding 1.27 contested marks per game
That is the least of all our defenders who have played 10 or more games this season (the worst is Howe at 2.41 per game)
Champion data stats show this season he's been our second best defender for points gained just behind Dunn and just ahead of Howe and Crisp and miles in front of Maynard & Langdon.
His overall disposal by foot is ranked in the elite category and by hand above average. He averages the second least goals conceded per game behind Dunn (Dunn at 1.38 Scharenberg at 1.43 Crisp at 1.87 Appleby at 1.95 Howe at 2.15 Murray at 2.27 Maynard at 2.48 Langdon at 3.27 on players who have played 10 or more games * note Appleby was on 9 games but was close enough to include in the conversation)
He ranks in the elite levels for intercept marks, spoils, 1%ers and overall has been a standout performer this season asked to do jobs on players he's not suited to play on (like a few other players in our defence like Howe and Langdon as well)
When they sit down each week the match committee would have his name on the team sheet on pen each and every week hence whey he was given another contract extension
A lot of people forget he's played exactly 29 games thus far in his career which is just over 1 full completed season and considering the injuries he's over come he's upside is massive
I would love to see him finally get the chance to play on the 3rd or 4th ranked oppostion attacker and see how his footy smarts comes to the fore then |
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E
Joined: 05 May 2010
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| qldmagpie67 wrote: | | Duff Soviet Union wrote: | I was just going to make a post about this:
I'd actually say Treloar is the one no doubt in if he's healthy. I'd say Elliot is pretty close and the op is forgetting Fasolo and Reid.
I'm assuming Wells and Goldsack are both done, regardless of the rumour mills / club spin.
I'd say one of Moore and Reid has to come back. Scharenberg has a spot in our 22, but he should *never* again be asked to stand a key forward. NEVER. He is probably the worst one on one defender in the entire comp, and basically an automatic shot on goal conceded if put in that situation. I lean towards Moore at the moment. The other alternative is one goes back, one goes forward, but I wouldn't do that, unless Cox is injured.
I think Elliot should come back. I'd say this would give JDG more time to play in the midfield, where I think he's at his best. He's a mid who goes forward, not a full time forward. I don't want to see Elliot and Fasolo playing together, that combo has never really worked, they're just too similar to each other.
So the question is who goes out:
Greenwood - To me, he should never get a game unless he's used as a tagger, which, for whatever reason, doesn't seem to happen much. He doesn't get much of the ball and he generally doesn't use it well. He's basically a very poor man's Taylor Adams.
Varcoe - Basically another low possession guy who doesn't use it very well. Right now, he's a guy with decent speed and defensive pressure who doesn't do much. Isn't this Jarryd Blair?
Daicos - certainly won't get dropped on yesterday's form, but can he keep doing that? Another low possession guy, but at least he uses it pretty well even if it is only over a shortish distance.
Sier - Only mentioning him on the "last man in / first out" theory, but I like him a lot and I think he's cemented a spot even if Treloar comes back. Big body, tackles well, uses it reasonably well although, again, he doesn't get much of it. I don't see a future star here, but he can be a good long term player.
Murray - I agree with AN Inkling here. He should stay in. I'd definitely play him over Appleby and Greenwood in the back 6. Yeah, he's frustrating, but his run and carry is needed in this team.
Mayne - I'm just about done with him. How many times yesterday did he get the ball in space and start running backwards? He slows our ball movement down whenever he touches it. I'd bring in Aish for him. Aish doesn't get it much, but something good normally happens when he does.
Mihocek - Hasn't quite locked up a best 22 spot yet, but he's close. Something good always happens when he gets the ball. I just wish he got it more than about 8 times a game. Still, he can take a mark and is a great kick and isn't too slow, so I'd play him over Reid / Moore as the second tall.
I'd say our 22 should look as follows come Finals time:
B: Murray Moore Langdon
HB: Scharenberg Howe Crisp
M: Treloar Pendlebury Phillips
HF: De Goey Mihocek Stephenson
F: Hoskin Elliot Cox Elliot
R: Grundy Sidebottom Adams
INT: Maynard Sier Aish Daicos
Edit: Left out Josh Thomas. He can replace Aish. |
Your comments about Scharenberg are completely wrong.
Your right on one front he isn't a key defender and shouldn't be on the oppositions biggest forward. That wasn't what he was drafted for
Champion data have him conceding 1.27 contested marks per game
That is the least of all our defenders who have played 10 or more games this season (the worst is Howe at 2.41 per game)
Champion data stats show this season he's been our second best defender for points gained just behind Dunn and just ahead of Howe and Crisp and miles in front of Maynard & Langdon.
His overall disposal by foot is ranked in the elite category and by hand above average. He averages the second least goals conceded per game behind Dunn (Dunn at 1.38 Scharenberg at 1.43 Crisp at 1.87 Appleby at 1.95 Howe at 2.15 Murray at 2.27 Maynard at 2.48 Langdon at 3.27 on players who have played 10 or more games * note Appleby was on 9 games but was close enough to include in the conversation)
He ranks in the elite levels for intercept marks, spoils, 1%ers and overall has been a standout performer this season asked to do jobs on players he's not suited to play on (like a few other players in our defence like Howe and Langdon as well)
When they sit down each week the match committee would have his name on the team sheet on pen each and every week hence whey he was given another contract extension
A lot of people forget he's played exactly 29 games thus far in his career which is just over 1 full completed season and considering the injuries he's over come he's upside is massive
I would love to see him finally get the chance to play on the 3rd or 4th ranked oppostion attacker and see how his footy smarts comes to the fore then |
always love a guy who says "you are wrong" because of stats. Stats merely help to make or support a point. They aren't THE point. And they are usually misused by the person making the point. In any event, these are opinions and not FACTS!!! And i say this even though i think Scharenberg is already an elite defender and does just fine against bigger opponents week in week out. I can see how someone might disagree though. He get's beaten often enough as well and when he does he has occasionally looked hopelessly out pointed.
FWIW, Langdon is also written in ink!
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Ohhh, the Premiership's a cakewalk ....... |
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Johnno75
Joined: 07 Oct 2010
Location: Wantirna
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Treloar jogging laps at training. He could be back within 5 weeks.
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Human behavioural studies suggest people who use a lot of swear words tend to be more honest & trustworthy. |
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Raw Hammer
Joined: 11 Sep 2008
Location: The Gutter
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| Dave The Man wrote: | | Raw Hammer wrote: | | Varcoe is our only genuine front and centre player. He stays. |
Have not done much doing that Lately |
Front and centre doesn’t just relate to inside 50 crumbs and goals.
Front and centre is ANYWHERE on the park. He’s the only player who genuinely knows how to anticipate the fall of the ball at a marking contest.
It’s a thing of beauty to watch.
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Est. 2002 |
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Raw Hammer
Joined: 11 Sep 2008
Location: The Gutter
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The problem with Langdon is his slow as treacle bong-affected demeanour.
I watch him closely. He saunters along without a care in the world. He gives a handball and STOPS. I’ve watched the replay twice. Once he gives the ball off, he stands flat footed. All others are in a state of urgency, jogging on the spot to anticipate the next possession, looking to give a shepherd. Not Langdon. See ball, jump ill-advised into a pack, perhaps gather ball, give ball off after an eternity, put team mate under pressure, stop, job done.
He’s no doubt MORE than capable. His final 5 minutes vs Adelaide last year when we have up a 50 point lead were supreme.
But something innate is missing. Some competitive gene or want to be involved at every opportunity is missing. I don’t know what it is I now believe what we get now is what we’ll always get.but there are laconical players, and the there’s Langdon.
He can be MORE than what he is right now, but he has to want to be. Has he got it in him? I’m not so sure. I really hope he wants to take the next step cos he’s capable.
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Est. 2002 |
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