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AN_Inkling
Joined: 06 Oct 2007
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| swoop42 wrote: | Sier missing just compounds the problem of no de Goey.
We're now two bulls down and with Brown added to the mix of Sidebottom, Adams, Thomas and Daicos just to small through the midfield IMO. |
Think this week it may be worth playing Greenwood in the middle as a tagger. Give us some extra strength.
The Tigers are small through the middle as well, but will be stronger.
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Magpietothemax 
magpietothemax
Joined: 28 Apr 2013
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| AN_Inkling wrote: | | Magpietothemax wrote: | | PyreneesPie wrote: | | Montagna on Fox Footy just suggested we need to minimize turnovers through Richmond pressure, by playing the kick and mark game ie Hawthorn style. Hmmmm, only trouble is Joey, we can't play that style - we're a pressure based team as well. |
Yeah, this suggestion is pretty much useless when we have never played in that manner., Hard to see how we could suddenly execute it effectively without ever having practised it before.
I read an article recently which pointed out that teams who had beaten Richmond this year without exception increased their normal kick to handball ratio. GWS did this two weeks ago. I think we need to instruct Murray, Phillips Crisp, Langdon to kick the ball forward wherever possible and limit the handball in the back half. Greenwood to tag Cotchin? I am thinking it through now, and loss of a big bodied midfielder in Sier might not be so devastating against Richmond, since they seem to readily concede clearances anyway. |
Sure we have. Remember against Sydney last year when we shocked them by playing this style?
I think he's wrong though. Slow ball movement doesn't work against their defence, you need to break the lines and put their defenders in one on one situations. They work well together but aren't that great individually. |
Yes I agree with that. I don't think you can beat Richmond with slow ball movement. That is probably why the kick to handball ratio of successful teams against Richmond has been on average higher than usual for that team. Losing JDG is huge, because he is the master of creating one on ones in our F50. But Cox should be able to spend most of his time Forward, given that he will not be necessary to assist the defence due to Richmond's small forward line. This will automatically take at least one of their defenders out. We should definitely think about how we can take advantage of this. I have a feeling that Rance would be uncomforatable in a one on one situation with Cox. If Richmond always send another defender to assist him against Cox, we need to have a clearly defined strategy of how our free forward can then impact.
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Last edited by Magpietothemax on Thu Jul 26, 2018 9:37 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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HAL
Please don't shout at me - I can't help it.
Joined: 17 Mar 2003
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| In any case, What is this "thinking"? |
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Mugwump
Joined: 28 Jul 2007
Location: Between London and Melbourne
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Well, it’s backs to the wall, but it’s far from hopeless. We still have our dangerous forward line of Stevo. WHE and Thomas, and the big x-factor that is Cox. Grundy, Sidebottom, Adams and Pendles are still the core of an elite midfield, and our back line has known its business all year. This is not Richmond vs Carlton. It’s Richmond vs Collingwood 2018. Bring it !!
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RudeBoy
Joined: 28 Nov 2005
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| It won't happen, but I'd be inclined to throw Maynard up forward, replacing De Goey. He's got the swagger, is good in the air, is tough, and loves to kick a goal. We've got experienced defenders in Varcoe and Greenwood to take his place down back. |
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AN_Inkling
Joined: 06 Oct 2007
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| RudeBoy wrote: | | It won't happen, but I'd be inclined to throw Maynard up forward, replacing De Goey. He's got the swagger, is good in the air, is tough, and loves to kick a goal. We've got experienced defenders in Varcoe and Greenwood to take his place down back. |
I don't think so. We have enough forwards. We've seen with other teams that breaking your usual structure to fill a hole just makes another hole. Maynard's been playing well down back and should stay there. We will probably see him get more midfield minutes though.
There's some chance we play Moore forward, but I don't think so. Getting him familiar with playing in defence is more important than beating Richmond. Could swing forward later in the game if needed.
I'd like to see him play a tagging role if he's fit enough, but I think we might see Greenwood take De Goey's place up forward. He was meant to play there last week until Moore withdrew.
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Piethagoras' Theorem
the hypotenuse, is always a cakewalk
Joined: 29 May 2006
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| PyreneesPie wrote: | | Montagna on Fox Footy just suggested we need to minimize turnovers through Richmond pressure, by playing the kick and mark game ie Hawthorn style. Hmmmm, only trouble is Joey, we can't play that style - we're a pressure based team as well. |
Montagna is clueless, that Hawthorn style has failed to beat Richmond in 5 of their last 8 encounters. Even when hawks were invincible between '12 and '15 the tiges managed to beat them 3 out of 4.
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Formally frankiboy and FrankieGoesToCollingwood. |
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Magpietothemax
magpietothemax
Joined: 28 Apr 2013
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| FrankieGoesToCollingwood wrote: | | PyreneesPie wrote: | | Montagna on Fox Footy just suggested we need to minimize turnovers through Richmond pressure, by playing the kick and mark game ie Hawthorn style. Hmmmm, only trouble is Joey, we can't play that style - we're a pressure based team as well. |
Montagna is clueless, that Hawthorn style has failed to beat Richmond in 5 of their last 8 encounters. Even when hawks were invincible between '12 and '15 the tiges managed to beat them 3 out of 4. |
Great observation Frankie. Already, even before they became a Premiership team, Richmond was Hawthorn's bogey team
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Magpietothemax
magpietothemax
Joined: 28 Apr 2013
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| FrankieGoesToCollingwood wrote: | | PyreneesPie wrote: | | Montagna on Fox Footy just suggested we need to minimize turnovers through Richmond pressure, by playing the kick and mark game ie Hawthorn style. Hmmmm, only trouble is Joey, we can't play that style - we're a pressure based team as well. |
Montagna is clueless, that Hawthorn style has failed to beat Richmond in 5 of their last 8 encounters. Even when hawks were invincible between '12 and '15 the tiges managed to beat them 3 out of 4. |
Great observation Frankie. Already, even before they became a Premiership team, Richmond was Hawthorn's bogey team
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Brown26
Joined: 14 Sep 2001
Location: Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
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I think we need a little of the Hawthorn unsociable football about us this week. So we're underdogs, so we've got our best 22 sitting in the Epworth emergency ward, so you've got 100'000 3 game members, we think you're s**t. We think you're soft. We're going to smash your pressure game plan into last year. The only September you're going to be thinking about is past glory.
Greenwood to tag Martin (not sure I love the idea but without DeGoey might be best plan) at least initially and the first 10 minutes after half time.
Moore to Rievoldt. Don't forget this allows Howe / Langdon / Shaz to get in the hole and give Moore a chop out - I think this works in our favour.
Get some mongrel into Grundy - needs to smash Nankervis if we're any chance.
Varcoe on Short - he's so important to their run from defence but Varcoe can match that.
Maynard on Rioli - this guy is a gun, sorry to say but Maynard will have to break him over 4 quarters.
I wouldn't swap anyone into the forward line to replace DeGoey but I'd tell Stephenson he has the JDG role up forward this week if required.
Either Cox or Miochek are very deep or very wide at any point - make Rance play one on one, don't let him do what McGovern did.
There's no substitute for good team pressure and team defence which is why I don't think you can change the game plan or take people out of their positions; we just need to be super accountable in a few key areas, reinforce our normal game plan and add two or maybe three maximum points of emphasis
1. tackle pressure
2. quick spread on defence
3. forward line efficiency (very important with DeGoey out)
Funnily enough I don't think JDG and Sier out are as bad as Cox out of the WCE game - especially structurally - and I still don't think we'll win but missing one or two extra mids / small forwards doesn't break the team. We'll put on a show I think and even losing "gallantly" we'll have the media pack in a frenzy for September glory 
GO PIES!
- Ben |
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Piethagoras' Theorem
the hypotenuse, is always a cakewalk
Joined: 29 May 2006
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| Magpietothemax wrote: | | FrankieGoesToCollingwood wrote: | | PyreneesPie wrote: | | Montagna on Fox Footy just suggested we need to minimize turnovers through Richmond pressure, by playing the kick and mark game ie Hawthorn style. Hmmmm, only trouble is Joey, we can't play that style - we're a pressure based team as well. |
Montagna is clueless, that Hawthorn style has failed to beat Richmond in 5 of their last 8 encounters. Even when hawks were invincible between '12 and '15 the tiges managed to beat them 3 out of 4. |
Great observation Frankie. Already, even before they became a Premiership team, Richmond was Hawthorn's bogey team |
cheers, it always baffled me how they had it over them. I suppose most teams have a bogey or two
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Formally frankiboy and FrankieGoesToCollingwood. |
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Magpietothemax
magpietothemax
Joined: 28 Apr 2013
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| Brown26 wrote: | I think we need a little of the Hawthorn unsociable football about us this week. So we're underdogs, so we've got our best 22 sitting in the Epworth emergency ward, so you've got 100'000 3 game members, we think you're s**t. We think you're soft. We're going to smash your pressure game plan into last year. The only September you're going to be thinking about is past glory.
Greenwood to tag Martin (not sure I love the idea but without DeGoey might be best plan) at least initially and the first 10 minutes after half time.
Moore to Rievoldt. Don't forget this allows Howe / Langdon / Shaz to get in the hole and give Moore a chop out - I think this works in our favour.
Get some mongrel into Grundy - needs to smash Nankervis if we're any chance.
Varcoe on Short - he's so important to their run from defence but Varcoe can match that.
Maynard on Rioli - this guy is a gun, sorry to say but Maynard will have to break him over 4 quarters.
I wouldn't swap anyone into the forward line to replace DeGoey but I'd tell Stephenson he has the JDG role up forward this week if required.
Either Cox or Miochek are very deep or very wide at any point - make Rance play one on one, don't let him do what McGovern did.
There's no substitute for good team pressure and team defence which is why I don't think you can change the game plan or take people out of their positions; we just need to be super accountable in a few key areas, reinforce our normal game plan and add two or maybe three maximum points of emphasis
1. tackle pressure
2. quick spread on defence
3. forward line efficiency (very important with DeGoey out)
Funnily enough I don't think JDG and Sier out are as bad as Cox out of the WCE game - especially structurally - and I still don't think we'll win but missing one or two extra mids / small forwards doesn't break the team. We'll put on a show I think and even losing "gallantly" we'll have the media pack in a frenzy for September glory
GO PIES!
- Ben |
Yeah, pretty comprehensive analysis. Absolutely agree that no changes (except Moore in) should be made to our defensive structure.
Quick spread on defence requires kicking. So our mids/forwards have to make sure they are running when our HB line kicks it out
Forward line efficiency. Yes. Question is: how to get it with JDG out? Must take advantage of Cox diverting two of their defenders. So a plan centreing on rapid delivery from HB to the midfield, and then a loose forward to take advantage of Rance and another guarding Cox. Should not be one guy, but WHE, Stevo, JT, Daics as well, all running hard and swarming back as soon as we gain possession in defence.
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stui magpie 
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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| RudeBoy wrote: | | It won't happen, but I'd be inclined to throw Maynard up forward, replacing De Goey. He's got the swagger, is good in the air, is tough, and loves to kick a goal. We've got experienced defenders in Varcoe and Greenwood to take his place down back. |
yeah, nah. Similar physical attributes doesn't equal knowing how to play as a forward. Maynard could play midfield, even forward flank at a pinch, but standing in the goal square 1 on 1, no chance
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Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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eddiesmith
Lets get ready to Rumble
Joined: 23 Nov 2004
Location: Lexus Centre
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| Without JDG, getting within 10 goals might be a bit far fetched, this could be a season ending demolition job |
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Magpietothemax
magpietothemax
Joined: 28 Apr 2013
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| eddiesmith wrote: | | Without JDG, getting within 10 goals might be a bit far fetched, this could be a season ending demolition job |
Thought that we would inevitably lose heavily, but have since thought it through. Loss of JDG in particular is massive, but Cox is able to play forward pretty much for the entire game, given that his presence in defence is not critical, because of Richmond's small forward line. So, Cox and Mihocek to create tall targets up forward which Richmond's defenders must cover. In Cox's case, they will probably double tag him. So this leaves one of our forwards free, We need to have a strategy in place to systematically capitalise on this. Loss of Sier is not so critical, since Richmond's midfield do not bust open with clearances. Playing Greenwood as a tagger if possible, will further dampen Richmond's energy at the centre bounce. The main thing I see that we have to change is to increase significantly the kick to handball ratio in the back half, in order to maximise the fast movement of the ball and limit turnovers in our defensive 50. Murray and Phillips were at times brilliant againt NM in their ripping delivery to the midfield. They should focus on that, and our mids need to synchronize with a pattern of less handball and more field kicking.
I don't think we can win, but if we come close, we will give them a hell of alot to be worried about, given that what we produce on Saturday will be only a pale shadow of what is possible.
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