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Post Match. Pies rout Roos - All comments please.

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didick 



Joined: 17 Jun 2009
Location: Brisbane

PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2018 9:00 am
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^Na, I remember vividly Langdon's slow motion amble across our defensive 50 arc and gold-plating a pass to a North player. I was holding back mentioning it here, cos I just can't see this argument going anywhere productive...
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Pies4shaw 



Joined: 08 Oct 2007


PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2018 9:05 am
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didick wrote:
^Na, I remember vividly Langdon's slow motion amble across our defensive 50 arc and gold-plating a pass to a North player. I was holding back mentioning it here, cos I just can't see this argument going anywhere productive...

Magnificent switch of play that resultted in a chest-mark to Jack Crisp.
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tbaker 



Joined: 02 Jul 2018
Location: Q19 Southern Stand MCG

PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2018 11:00 am
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Pies4shaw wrote:
It's possible for there to be a diversity of opinions - but not about the Future Captain.

Watch the game again - first bounce, North gets the centre clearance, ball bombed long, Brown has Howe done cold, Langdon into the hole in front of him - scoring chance gone, Collingwood defend. Then, if you watch the rest of the first quarter you will see that Langdon cleans up 5 of their first 8 inside 50s, sets up our second goal with a magnificent kick into the corridor, sets up another scoring chance (which Mayne squanders) and by the time his man finally gets a kick, it's on the North half-back flank and they trail by 6 goals with the game over.

Watched the replay, and stand by my comments - Langdon was ok but not great (which is not a slur on his game as some are taking it as) - just that there were greater players out there on the day. It was a great team performance with all contributing and all responsible in part for the great win.

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drew1602 Aquarius



Joined: 03 Mar 2003
Location: Northcote Victoria

PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2018 6:26 pm
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The only thing that takes the gloss off thumping the Roos is that you cant tell when their supporters start leaving early....Takes all the fun of waiving goodbye away...
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bally12 Aquarius



Joined: 30 Sep 2010


PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2018 11:34 pm
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This might not be popular on here, but I think the margin flattered us a bit. North burned some opportunities 20m out dead in front that could have seen them get an early lead.
After that we kicked 6 or 7 straight which is not going to happen most times, let's be realistic.
Thought our midfield did great in applying enormous pressure and tackling to prevent North from getting clean ball into their 50, where our defence was clearly undersized.
Ultimately our team defence of Shaz, Howe, Crisp, Langdon, Maynard did really well to stand up to their bigger opponents.

Some player highlights, in my view:

JDG - best on ground. This kid is awesome.

Pendles- another top game from. Some of his early possessions didn't go the usual way, but overall just a general for us.

Grundy - gives us added grunt in the midfield. He's decision making has improved markedly. He used to panic under pressure and hand the ball over, but now he's more composed and finds the right option. I love how he challenges the opposition ruckman with his work ethic. It's like he grinds them down.

Adams - interesting kicking. Yes i know...Adams works his guts out all over the ground, but his kiocking...why oh why can't our coaches fix his ball drop.

Murray - this one is a hard one..He's a bit of a turnover merchant, but I also love his dash and willingness to take the game on and cause chaos down the ground. I can't trust him in the side at the moment. Hope he proves me wrong.

Mayne - well done Mayney, you earned your spot. Late in the 4th quarter when fatigued he chased hard back, and you could see he was still covering the ground at a good clip. He's not explosive but you can definitely see evidence of his improved repeat running. Also he's generally a good decision maker...kind of weird but gives me a sense of confidence that he'll do the right thing when he has the ball.

Varcs - hits the packs at top pace. Love him. Harshly judged last week by many on his 1st game back. Sometimes I get the feeling he tries too hard to be the team player, when he should be more hungry for goals.
Phillips - good disposal, generally finds someone, gut running. Very important.

Thomas - cool under pressure and again contributed on the scoreboard. Generally uses the ball well.

Daicos - tracking nicely. I'd give him a week's break soon. Under pressure near the end, he swings to his left and hits a 25m worm burner to someone on defensive 50. Wow...there's a taste of things to come.

Moore - I think his hairstyle is weighing on his hammy. In all seriousness, we need him to come good. He gave us a glimpse last week of what he could be at CHB.

WHE - important again. Great mark for his size.

Sier - very happy with this kid so far.

Maynard - apart from that clarnger where he was too lazy to bend over to mark the ball, he's doing good. Can be trusted in the contest now, and his kicking has improved a lot.

Mason - important structurally for us.

Mihocek - said it before, he gives us something different in the forward line. Hoping he keeps improving. Going 2 quarters without a touch was a bit of low point, but then popped up for his 4th goal after that.

Sometimes little things that may seem trivial, stick in your mind from a match from time to time. This happened near the end when Shaz intercepted a handball at half forward flank and actually RAN FORWARD in open play and hit Jordy lace out with a 30m bullet. What a change from the stop/start/sideways safe kicks he does in the backline. If Shaz can improve his running over the next preseason, we really are going places.
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Geek 



Joined: 06 Apr 2006
Location: Glenroy

PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2018 12:02 am
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MightyMagpie wrote:
K wrote:
Cam wrote:
...
"He was actually crook last night and was crook during the game so it was a fair response from him and showed some real toughness so we rapt with his ability to handle that challenge; the psychological challenge and then the physical challenge of not being at 100% but still go out and do his job. That's a contribution to team".

I reckon that's Bucks' free hit right there. That message is for another player.

Message for whom?!


Hammy is a bit different to the runs ...


I just read that as Daicos having been told to put in more on the team work front earlier in the week. He's responded with 7 tackles - maybe run a bit harder and got to better positions more often
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Geek 



Joined: 06 Apr 2006
Location: Glenroy

PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2018 12:15 am
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K wrote:
September Zeros wrote:
AN_Inkling wrote:
... it's just not factual to say his disposal was awful. The way he plays, there will be mistakes, especially as he's developing but the positive, today, as with most of the year outweighed the negative.
...

I love murrays pace and I love his willingness to take the game on and I want him to excel but please .....

You can have 90% disposal efficiency but still cause the screw up that costs you the game. Murray today had several telling screw ups which against sides like Richmond won't be gotten away with.

Murray today in the 1st and 2nd helped keep north In it almost on his own.

He absolutely needs to fix some of his decision making and its absolutely factual to say that some of his disposal was appalling ( kick to Maynard in the goal square anyone)
...

Yes, Murray has had kicking & decision-making problems in the VFL, too. And the Murray-Maynard fiasco was not due to taking the game on. At the other end of the scale, the WHE mark made good his bad kick. Maybe if it's an ordinary player rather than WHE, the kick is just marked by one of the two defenders in front.


Ok... So that play was where Murray was running off half back, only to have Howe miss him with the pass. Murray's doubled back to gather the ball, immediately has to fend off a tackle, sprints forward, baulks Ziebel, then kicks it 50+ metres off his right foot, hanging it above the defenders' heads for the forward to come over the top.

It was actually brilliant play with a well chosen and executed kick at pace and off his non-preferred. Definitely not his worst effort.
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watt price tully Scorpio



Joined: 15 May 2007


PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2018 1:09 am
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Murray is great I reckon. His pace and unpredictability causes stress; more for the opposition than us but in overall terms he's a postive in my view.

I think I once compared him to a pinball in a pinball machine: spinning, turning, colliding, kinetic energy then the flipper is used and he is propelled forward, all the while you're still not in control of were it will result but by golly he is moving and the pinball machine has a few tilts.

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Mugwump 



Joined: 28 Jul 2007
Location: Between London and Melbourne

PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2018 3:58 am
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^ good analogy, WPT, but Geez the ball goes down the gutter a lot more than youd wish. I agree that the positives outweigh the negatives. I was impressed that he kept taking risks despite being dropped. The kid has some character.
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lanstro 



Joined: 04 Apr 2010


PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2018 11:46 am
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I didn't think Murray deserved to be back given how poor he was before he got dropped, but he was alright on the weekend. The big turnover that led to a goal was as much Maynard's fault as his. He got caught once by Daw but that happens if you're expecting him to break lines, and it was in a non-dangerous spot. His disposal was otherwise no worse than other defenders'.

Random thought - has Shaz ever played wing/forward? He seems way too small to man key forwards and gives away panicked free kicks against them regularly, and probably not fast enough for smalls. He's a great intercept player but so's Howe, and our other defenders are no slouches in that department either. So I'm not sure defence is where we necessarily want him. His strengths are his ability to read the flight of the ball, and hitting a target under pressure. I reckon he'd be decent at marking when the ball is kicked to his advantage. Maybe we should give him a go as a half forward flanker sometime.
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MightyMagpie 



Joined: 04 Jun 2013
Location: WA

PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2018 12:05 pm
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Not sure if this is an update or a backpeddle, but ...

Per Tony Sheahan

UPDATE; Magpie Steele Sidebottom had successful surgery last night to realign bone in face.

Sidebottom confident he can recover in time to play Richmond

#AFLPiesvTigers

Per Mark Stevens

Steele Sidebottom not on track at Coll, club still 100 percent adamant he plays v Tigers ... @7NewsMelbourne

and

No sign of Mason Cox on track at Coll either, following scans on Sunday and Monday. Club allaying any concerns going into Tigers blockbuster ... @7NewsMelbourne

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AN_Inkling 



Joined: 06 Oct 2007


PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2018 3:45 pm
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Mugwump wrote:
^ good analogy, WPT, but Geez the ball goes down the gutter a lot more than youd wish. I agree that the positives outweigh the negatives. I was impressed that he kept taking risks despite being dropped. The kid has some character.

Not picking on you, your post was just the last. Seeing a lot of posters decrying Murray's poor kicking in this game. It's simply not the case. He made a couple of mistakes but was overall one of our better users. I'm not saying he doesn't have an issue, but when attacking and outside of our defensive 50m I have confidence in him to do something productive. Under pressure, close to goal, I'm less confident. But that goes for just about anyone kicking inboard, we've seen many mistakes from Howe, Langdon, Maynard, Crisp in this situation.

What he does have is good power off both feet. Thankfully he mostly uses that power and doesn't go in for too many tricky short passes as I'm less confident n his ability with those.

Anyway, I have just rewatched the game and here is a rundown of Murray's first half touches (only 7 touches and 1 kick in the 2nd half so no need to go through that). Errors in red (resulting in 1.1) for those who don't care about the rest Very Happy. Green for plays which resulted in a score.

Now he made other mistakes in the game, just focusing on his kicking here and it was fine. Overall his first half was excellent, definitely in my votes to that point, much quieter in the second half though.

1st Quarter
14:16 regulation short pass to Cox in the centre. A little lower than you'd like. Cox almost holds it but eventually lets it slip, could almost have been paid
12:55 receives from the Howe kick in at defensive 40. Makes a 30m pass to the chest of Cox who marks
11:09 bad short kick from Howe misses Murray, putting him under pressure in the centre square. Murray goes back, retrieves the ball, breaks a tackle and kicks a 50m ball (on his wrong side) to around 25 out; WHE marks and goals
09:53 marks from an Adams kick. Short 20m pass from just inside defensive 50 finds Pendlebury
05:19 receives a handball from Crisp after Roos kick in. From near the boundary 70m out, kicks off balance under pressure long on his left. Marked by Mihocek 40m out who misses the goal
02:29 receives from Scharenberg deep in defence. From the boundary kicks long down the line. Mihocek hands to it but doesn't hold the mark. Collingwood subsequently awarded a free
02:08 from the above free. Daicos kicks backwards to Murray 30m out defensive 50. kicks a short 20m pass to Maynard, on the full but low; Maynard drops it and results in a goal to Roos.
00:34 Sier handballs to Murray in the centre square. Murray makes the 25m pass to Mayne who marks

2nd Quarter
11:29 under pressure, 25m defensive 50. long clearing kick around the body on his wrong side (right). off hands 65m out. We eventually win the ball
10:20 centre square, marks from Scharenberg short pass. kicks long to around 20m out. off hands
07:48 under pressure 20m out. clearing snap on the left, straight to the Roos. shot at goal: miss
04:52 Murray wins the ball on the wing under pressure. Kicks short but too high for Greenwood. Falls for Langdon
04:43 receives the handball from Pendlebury, dashes away on the wing. Long left foot kick to the 50. off hands, taken by Thomas who sets up a Cox goal
03:15 Scharenberg handballs to Murray in the centre square. tucks it under his arm, runs inboard and kicks a left footer to the 50. a bit of a skewed up and under. 2 on 2 contest, marked by the Roos.
02:29 receives a handball from Sidey 80m from goal. runs forward and handballs to Daicos
01:09 Murray retrieves after Daicos is smothered. long forward handball to JDG. kicks forward resulting in a mark and goal to WHE
00:10 Daicos kicks backwards to Murray on the wing. Kicks 45m inboard and backwards to Howe who marks

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Last edited by AN_Inkling on Tue Jul 24, 2018 4:25 pm; edited 1 time in total
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AN_Inkling 



Joined: 06 Oct 2007


PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2018 3:49 pm
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The first half tally:
15 kicks 2 handballs

1 poor kick under defensive pressure directly to the Roos.
1 poor kick under pressure that missed its target but fortuitously fell our way
1 iffy kick to Maynard which he dropped and resulted in a North goal

12 kicks that were perfectly fine. Five entries into our 50, for a result of 2.1

I like that he is was able to get more ball outside of defensive 50 than in, inside: 6, outside: 11.

I'd have more concerns about his disposal in a game where we are pinned in our defensive third more - ie. probably against Richmond. But, here's the risk reward: this is also the best time to have a line breaker who can potentially get you out of that situation.

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September Zeros 



Joined: 04 Oct 2012
Location: Behind you

PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2018 4:15 pm
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It's a good opinion piece inkling giving us your thoughts on how plays panned out but that's all it is. You tried to leave out bias but you could write something very similar with more negative spin and you could write it about of number of games exploring his recent work in the VFL . There's more to it than Saturday's game,

Plus you may be focusing on disposal...

But you left out getting pinged in the middle for holding the ball by Majak after trying to do too much and his wonderful tackle on his own team mate in Shaz deep in his own defensive 50 for which he also got pinged for holding the ball - it also resulted in a shot on goal.

He had some very costly turn overs by foot AND by decision making that could have resulted in three to four goals being scored all at his own hand. He's just lucky they missed a couple. I simply don't care how many hit the mark, I care about the cost of the ones that don't.

I don't want to tear the guy down I actually like him in the side.

But context is critical and he was making a fine contribution to keeping north in it in the first half. With emphasis on the word contribution.

He's got some work to do it's as simple as that. Deserves a shot against the Tigers though and deserves to get some games under his belt so we can see what he can do.

No one is selling the guy down the river, just needs to fix some things and he could be a very exciting player.

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Last edited by September Zeros on Tue Jul 24, 2018 4:41 pm; edited 3 times in total
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David Libra

Rose with a violent heart


Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: où surréal côtoie

PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2018 4:16 pm
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AN_Inkling wrote:
Mugwump wrote:
^ good analogy, WPT, but Geez the ball goes down the gutter a lot more than youd wish. I agree that the positives outweigh the negatives. I was impressed that he kept taking risks despite being dropped. The kid has some character.

Not picking on you, your post was just the last. Seeing a lot of posters decrying Murray's poor kicking in this game. It's simply not the case. He made a couple of mistakes but was overall one of our better users. I'm not saying he doesn't have an issue, but when attacking and outside of our defensive 50m I have confidence in him to do something productive. Under pressure, close to goal, I'm less confident. But that goes for just about anyone kicking inboard, we've seen many mistakes from Howe, Langdon, Maynard, Crisp in this situation.

What he does have is good power off both feet. Thankfully he mostly uses that power and doesn't go in for too many tricky short passes as I'm less confident n his ability with those.

Anyway, I have just rewatched the game and here is a rundown of Murray's first half touches (only 7 touches and 1 kick in the 2nd half so no need to go through that). Errors in red (resulting in 1.1) for those who don't care about the rest Very Happy. Green for plays which resulted in a score.

Now he made other mistakes in the game, just focusing on his kicking here and it was fine. Overall his first half was excellent, definitely in my votes to that point, much quieter in the second half though.

1st Quarter
14:16 regulation short pass to Cox in the centre. A little lower than you'd like. Cox almost holds it but eventually lets it slip, could almost have been paid
12:55 receives from the Howe kick in at defensive 40. Makes a 30m pass to the chest of Cox who marks
11:09 bad short kick from Howe misses Murray, putting him under pressure in the centre square. Murray goes back, retrieves the ball, breaks a tackle and kicks a 50m ball (on his wrong side) to around 25 out; WHE marks and goals
09:53 marks from an Adams kick. Short 20m pass from just inside defensive 50 finds Pendlebury
05:19 receives a handball from Crisp after Roos kick in. From near the boundary 70m out, kicks off balance under pressure long on his left. Marked by Mihocek 40m out who misses the goal
02:29 receives from Scharenberg deep in defence. From the boundary kicks long down the line. Mihocek hands to it but doesn't hold the mark. Collingwood subsequently awarded a free
02:08 from the above free. Daicos kicks backwards to Murray 30m out defensive 50. kicks a short 20m pass to Maynard, on the full but low; Maynard drops it and results in a goal to Roos.
00:34 Sier handballs to Murray in the centre square. Murray makes the 25m pass to Mayne who marks

2nd Quarter
11:29 under pressure, 25m defensive 50. long clearing kick around the body on his wrong side (right). off hands 65m out. We eventually win the ball
10:20 centre square, marks from Scharenberg short pass. kicks long to around 20m out. off hands
07:48 under pressure 20m out. clearing snap on the left, straight to the Roos. shot at goal: miss
04:52 Murray wins the ball on the wing under pressure. Kicks short but too high for Greenwood. Falls for Langdon
04:43 receives the handball from Pendlebury, dashes away on the wing. Long left foot kick to the 50. off hands, taken by Thomas who sets up a Cox goal
03:15 Scharenberg handballs to Murray in the centre square. tucks it under his arm, runs inboard and kicks a left footer to the 50. a bit of a skewed up and under. 2 on 2 contest, marked by the Roos.
02:29 receives a handball from Sidey 80m from goal. runs forward and handballs to Daicos
01:09 Murray retrieves after Daicos is smothered. long forward handball to JDG. kicks forward resulting in a mark and goal to WHE
00:10 Daicos kicks backwards to Murray on the wing. Kicks 45m inboard and backwards to Howe who marks


This is amazing work, Inkling. Obviously most supporters can't be bothered to go back and watch a player's performance in such fine detail, but this really goes to show how inaccurate people's post-game impressions can be, and how they so often only see what they want or expect to see.

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