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thesoretoothsayer
Joined: 26 Apr 2017
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| Given that alcohol ruins more lives than gambling, I'm assuming the club will divest itself of all hotel licenses and also ban the sale of alcohol at Collingwood events. After all, that would be even more community-minded than getting rid of pokies. Wouldn't it? |
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David 
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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Alcohol has a social and personal benefit (as well as its many serious costs). Cars help make us more efficient with our time and help get us places, but also cause a lot of deaths and injuries. Pokies achieve ... what, exactly?
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All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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thesoretoothsayer
Joined: 26 Apr 2017
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I don't play the pokies (nor do I like them) but I'd guess:
-a form of entertainment.
-a thrill of winning.
-a warm, safe place for people of a certain age to congregate and make friends.
So, like alcohol, both good and bad.
And, given alcohols links to violence (especially DV), maybe less bad.
As such, if we're going down the "football club as moral agent" road then I can't see how we can call for the elimination of one and not the other. |
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Albert Parker
Joined: 13 Dec 2012
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^if we divest the pubs with pokies, what do we have remaining with respect to licensed premises?
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One team, one dream - the Pies and this year's premiership |
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Pies2016
Joined: 12 Sep 2014
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| thesoretoothsayer wrote: | I don't play the pokies (nor do I like them) but I'd guess:
-a form of entertainment.
-a thrill of winning.
-a warm, safe place for people of a certain age to congregate and make friends.
So, like alcohol, both good and bad.
And, given alcohols links to violence (especially DV), maybe less bad.
As such, if we're going down the "football club as moral agent" road then I can't see how we can call for the elimination of one and not the other. |
It might yet be a case of be careful what you wish for.
Most suburban clubs are witnessing an explosion of new registrations and nearly all of them are young girls wanting to give the game a go.
Providing the right environmental needs for young female players in a male dominated environment is causing some headaches at suburban club level, albeit the revenue is a god send.
A club has to provide a “ safe “ environment for all its players and that obviously extends into the club rooms.
I don’t have the answers but it’s an issue. Imagine if the councils could provide enough grounds for the girls to play on .... but that’s a different story. |
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stui magpie 
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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^
How are the club rooms an issue?
I would have thought you have 1 set per oval and only one game at a time, so it's just a matter of being able to provide a space to get changed without prying eyes?
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Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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masoncox
masoncox
Joined: 31 Aug 2015
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| thesoretoothsayer wrote: | I don't play the pokies (nor do I like them) but I'd guess:
-a form of entertainment.
-a thrill of winning.
-a warm, safe place for people of a certain age to congregate and make friends.
So, like alcohol, both good and bad.
And, given alcohols links to violence (especially DV), maybe less bad.
As such, if we're going down the "football club as moral agent" road then I can't see how we can call for the elimination of one and not the other. |
The puritians think that banning every vice will lead to an ideal life.
Yeah, pull the other one.
When they banned alcohol in the 20's in the USA the consumption of alcohol went up!!!
All the gangsters and mafia made a killing on illegal booze.
Same now with drugs and smokes.
Banning only benefits the drug runners.
Booze kills more people than most things.
So why does collingwood support the consumption of alcohol?
Why, because too many people like me like it too much.
Getting rid of two gambling venues will not do one thing to stop gambling.
If they were really devoted to this idea.
They would not onsell the licences to another venue!
Why don't they put their money where their mouth is.
Bloody hypocrites.
Last edited by masoncox on Wed Jul 18, 2018 7:00 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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HAL
Please don't shout at me - I can't help it.
Joined: 17 Mar 2003
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| Are you kidding? Pull your own the other one. |
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Mugwump
Joined: 28 Jul 2007
Location: Between London and Melbourne
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| thesoretoothsayer wrote: | I don't play the pokies (nor do I like them) but I'd guess:
-a form of entertainment.
-a thrill of winning.
-a warm, safe place for people of a certain age to congregate and make friends.
So, like alcohol, both good and bad.
And, given alcohols links to violence (especially DV), maybe less bad.
As such, if we're going down the "football club as moral agent" road then I can't see how we can call for the elimination of one and not the other. |
Probably, on balance, alcohol is indeed worse. But you cannot ban it, as it is too deeply embedded in the culture, and too easy to make at home. The US experience showed that. Poker machines are not that embedded, they cannot be made at home, and thus they can be banned very effectively. The government should stop this hypertax on the poor and weak and their families. It’s great that Collingwood has chosen to do so.
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Two more flags before I die! |
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Pies2016
Joined: 12 Sep 2014
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| stui magpie wrote: | ^
How are the club rooms an issue?
I would have thought you have 1 set per oval and only one game at a time, so it's just a matter of being able to provide a space to get changed without prying eyes? |
Stu, I’m mindful of going even further off topic.
Club room “ construction “ isnt a major issue. And I should clarify that my reference to “ young women “ in my post also means women over 18 who generally play later the day. I made my post on the back of T S comment on banning alcohol. Alcohol consumption at clubs where women now play footy is a talking point at committee level within most suburban clubs.
I’m not saying you won’t be able get a beer at your local club on the weekend but clubs are now catering for a new demographic and like most things, it comes with its challenges. None of these challenges can’t be solved but they are conversations that haven’t been had before. |
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BBHS 
bbhs
Joined: 30 Jun 2004
Location: Bellarine
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| stui magpie wrote: | ^
With due respect, IMO if they were intelligent they wouldn't have done it. |
Been through with a couple of close friends, one a lawyer the other financial adviser. Intelligence and gambling addiction are bizarre as they would show great intelligence up until they started pushing that button.
Last edited by BBHS on Thu Jul 19, 2018 10:02 am; edited 1 time in total |
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stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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| Pies2016 wrote: | | stui magpie wrote: | ^
How are the club rooms an issue?
I would have thought you have 1 set per oval and only one game at a time, so it's just a matter of being able to provide a space to get changed without prying eyes? |
Stu, I’m mindful of going even further off topic.
Club room “ construction “ isnt a major issue. And I should clarify that my reference to “ young women “ in my post also means women over 18 who generally play later the day. I made my post on the back of T S comment on banning alcohol. Alcohol consumption at clubs where women now play footy is a talking point at committee level within most suburban clubs.
I’m not saying you won’t be able get a beer at your local club on the weekend but clubs are now catering for a new demographic and like most things, it comes with its challenges. None of these challenges can’t be solved but they are conversations that haven’t been had before. |
Cheers for that. I can see it would be a cultural change and an issue, but conversations that probably need to be had.
_________________
Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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| BBHS wrote: | | stui magpie wrote: | ^
With due respect, IMO if they were intelligent they wouldn't have done it. |
Been through with a couple of close friends, one a lawyer the other financial advisor. Intelligence and gambling addition are bizarre as they would show great intelligence up until they started pushing that button. |
Again, cheers for that. I don't get it personally, I play them very occasionally but get bored quite quickly unless I'm in Vegas getting "free" drinks while playing 1c and 1 line at a time.
_________________
Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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qldmagpie67
Joined: 18 Dec 2008
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I'm not anti gambling quite the opposite actually I enjoy punt on sports horses and the occasional trip to the casino. The wife enjoys the flutter on the pokies but it's rare.
Unfortunately there are too many in all communities who suffer from addiction
Be it gambling drinking drugs
I've seen both sides of the argument where people's lives have been ruined by gambling and also how the revenue raised from gambling can fund great community projects and support junior sport
The only issue I have is how do you protect people from themselves ?
I had a good mate who got hooked on gambling
Horses pokies casino you name it he did it. Cost him his house marriage job and many friends. Now this was a hard working guy who volunteered at his local footy club, was a Boy Scout leader, drove for meals on wheels 1 night a week. He still managed to find the time to gamble and this was all pre online gambling.
He finally hit rock bottom and sort help. Spent months an months going to counselling and they said he just had an addictive personality
Years later he said I don't play pokies bet on horses go to casinos which was great. But what he failed to tell everyone he was I massive debt again because his new vice was lotto tickets and scratch-it tickets another legalised form of gambling run by the government
He spent hundreds of dollars a week buying lotto tickets chasing that 1 big fix alas it never happens
Now people say lotto tickets and alike are harmless. It's not true they can be as addictive as any
So how do government's legislate to protect a minority against themselves without punishing the majority who can show the restraint ?
With online gambling now people don't even need to go to there local pub or club they can hide behind a screen and ruin there lives in privacy.
The club made a decision and that's fine but the programs that revenu funded will have to be found elsewhere or those programs scrapped or downsized
There's only so much money you can gouge from members so how does the club plan on finding the extra income streams ?
That's a question I would like the club to tell us members |
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Albert Parker
Joined: 13 Dec 2012
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Richmond's membership has moved above ours on the back of a premiership. If we return to the upper echelons of the ladder, increased membership and merchandise sales will quickly replace this 'lost' revenue.
In any case, on balance, I suspect we've not made so much on pokies venues. We wrote off quite a bit of money against our investments in the Beach Hotel (Albert Park) and the Diamond Creek Hotel. There was also adverse publicity from ownership of the Horse and Carriage because only about 1% of revenues were being pumped back into the community for sporting equipment and facilities etc. It was a bad experience.
Given also that
- there is a salary cap
- there is now a tax on off-field spend and we've curbed that accordingly
- we have very little debt as a club to repay
- our facilities for the players and members are amongst the best in the AFL and centrally located
there are fewer incentives to have the extra millions from this pokie revenue for use around the club.
As a membership-based organisation, we really aren't trying to make ever-greater profits. It's not like the members get greater dividends from doing so.
_________________
One team, one dream - the Pies and this year's premiership |
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