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Should we eradicate cats in Australia?

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Should cats be eradicated from Australia?
Yes
52%
 52%  [ 10 ]
No
47%
 47%  [ 9 ]
Total Votes : 19

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K 



Joined: 09 Sep 2011


PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2018 11:22 pm
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luvdids wrote:
WTF has this thread become? ... This place is out of control.

Never fear: How cats endanger humans is still firmly on the agenda, even if the scenic route has been taken to get there.
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David Libra

Rose with a violent heart


Joined: 27 Jul 2003
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2018 12:07 am
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stui magpie wrote:
David wrote:
Slightly different meaning, I think engaging in the contemporary military jargon sense seems to mean shooting/killing (in the traditional sense it would mean something more like exchanging fire).

See definition 2 here:
https://www.militaryfactory.com/dictionary/military-terms-defined.asp?term_id=1901

And some more examples of the phenomenon here:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Distancing_language

Fair point on euthanasia, but Im quite serious when I say that we would do better not to tiptoe around the subject of death so much. And theres also a big difference between euphemisms designed to ease the pain of grieving people and euphemisms used to minimise the severity of an act. The latter obviously has a political dimension that the former lacks.


nice ninja editing there.

Without looking at your links, the term engage comes from the military jargon to engage the enemy in battle, which goes back to spears and swords days which makes your dislike of the term somewhat redundant.

back when two armies carrying swords would face each other across the plain, someone would give a signal and both sides would run forward and engage in battle. It pre dates shoot at each other by thousands of years.


Thats obviously where the term originates, but it has since developed a secondary, euphemistic meaning in the military. No point in arguing it further if you cant see it in any case, there are plenty of other examples to draw on that make the same point, which is why I added the Wikipedia link.

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K 



Joined: 09 Sep 2011


PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2018 3:19 am
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think positive wrote:
...
K yes all cats are supposed to be chipped and registered but its harder to police than dogs. The council go around house by house and check if a dog is there, most bark when someone knocks, harder to do with cats. Shutting down pet mills and stopping pet shops selling anything but rescue animals is a good start.

Now they need even stricter controls on breeders.

I think they should consider trying to track down the killers, i.e. which cat is responsible for a particular corpse. I don't know how easy this is, though. It could be expensive, but that can be accounted for in the fine for the responsible owner. If the cat drags the corpse home, it may be difficult. (I'm just thinking this, because apparently there have been cases of authorities tracking down poo to the responsible dog and dog owner...)
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K 



Joined: 09 Sep 2011


PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2018 3:57 pm
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David wrote:
Im against all such euphemisms. People should have the guts to stand behind their policies with clear language ...

Does your opposition to euphemisms include examples in this thread like "cats have complex personalities"?
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David Libra

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2018 9:46 pm
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No that might be an imprecise term, but I wouldnt consider it a euphemism.
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K 



Joined: 09 Sep 2011


PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2018 9:47 pm
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Ah, but for what is it really a substitute?

"Cats have selfish and violent personalities."
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David Libra

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2018 10:33 pm
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Ah, I see that was a joke. Sorry I missed it the first time!
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K 



Joined: 09 Sep 2011


PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2018 1:37 am
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K wrote:
... This is astonishing. A billion birds slaughtered by cats in less than 3 years.

stui magpie wrote:
^ Not to mention the numbers of reptiles, amphibians and small mammals

In the US, the CATastrophic carnage is even worse, apparently
"1.34.0 billion birds and 6.322.3 billion mammals annually":
https://www.nature.com/articles/ncomms2380.pdf

"Projects to manage free-ranging cats, such as Trap-Neuter-Return (TNR) colonies, are potentially harmful to wildlife populations, but are implemented across the United States without widespread public knowledge, consideration of scientific evidence or the environmental review processes typically required for actions with harmful environmental consequences."

"Threatened and endangered wildlife species on islands are most susceptible to the effects of cat predation, and this may also be true for vulnerable species in localized mainland areas because small numbers of fatalities could cause significant population declines. Threatened species in close proximity to cat coloniesincluding managed TNR coloniesface an especially high level of risk; therefore, cat colonies in such locations comprise a wildlife management priority. Claims that TNR colonies are effective in reducing cat populations, and, therefore, wildlife mortality, are not supported by peer-reviewed scientific studies."
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K 



Joined: 09 Sep 2011


PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2018 1:35 am
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swoop42 wrote:
...
This thread is proof enough that those who lean to the left are more likely to have a special place in there hearts for cats and those who lean right prefer dogs.
...

Actually, those with the strongest political leanings in the VPT seem to have either not posted here or posted sit-on-the-fence posts.


David wrote:
...
Anyway, seems like there might be some basis to the pet choicepolitics link:
http://time.com/8293/its-true-liberals-like-cats-more-than-conservatives-do/
https://www.psychologytoday.com/au/blog/canine-corner/201306/do-politics-matter-when-it-comes-loving-cats-or-dogs
http://demographicpartitions.org/dog-people-vs-cat-people-statistics/

I've noticed that AFL players are overwhelmingly dog people. My guess is the only ones with cats are those with a whole zoo of animals, including dogs (e.g. Cloke, Reid --- err..., these are examples of zoo owners, not zoo animals). I'd be very surprised if the AFL players as a group lean strongly right politically. Of course, you could claim there's some stronger link that overwhelms the pet-politics link among sportsmen.
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Mugwump 



Joined: 28 Jul 2007
Location: Between London and Melbourne

PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2018 3:54 am
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Id suspect AFL players would lean right, after correcting for the tendency of youth to lean left generally.

AFL players believe strongly in competition, they are aspirational, not-yet-wealthy high earners in a very meritocratic system, with a certain amount of hierarchy governing a lot of testosterone. Those all tend to drive toward the right, Id imagine.

The strong collaboration and self-sacrifice involved in putting team before self might suggest leftishness, but I doubt that is driven by altruism. Its more of a military-style ethic, Id imagine. No way to know, of course, unless there has been research on it.

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HAL 

Please don't shout at me - I can't help it.


Joined: 17 Mar 2003


PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2018 3:56 am
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Uh. What?
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think positive Libra

Side By Side


Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere

PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2018 9:44 am
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K wrote:
swoop42 wrote:
...
This thread is proof enough that those who lean to the left are more likely to have a special place in there hearts for cats and those who lean right prefer dogs.
...

Actually, those with the strongest political leanings in the VPT seem to have either not posted here or posted sit-on-the-fence posts.


David wrote:
...
Anyway, seems like there might be some basis to the pet choicepolitics link:
http://time.com/8293/its-true-liberals-like-cats-more-than-conservatives-do/
https://www.psychologytoday.com/au/blog/canine-corner/201306/do-politics-matter-when-it-comes-loving-cats-or-dogs
http://demographicpartitions.org/dog-people-vs-cat-people-statistics/

I've noticed that AFL players are overwhelmingly dog people. My guess is the only ones with cats are those with a whole zoo of animals, including dogs (e.g. Cloke, Reid --- err..., these are examples of zoo owners, not zoo animals). I'd be very surprised if the AFL players as a group lean strongly right politically. Of course, you could claim there's some stronger link that overwhelms the pet-politics link among sportsmen.


Maybe they are bird people

I had a bull terrier that used to sit on the kitchen windowsill and watch the world go by over the fence. Someone knocked on the door one day and said did you know there is a bull terrier on your windowsill? Gee, no I didnt notice a 25kg ball of muscle sitting there! Man She was the best dog! So sweet.

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K 



Joined: 09 Sep 2011


PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2018 4:42 pm
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Jamie's & JdG's dogs are gorgeous.
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K 



Joined: 09 Sep 2011


PostPosted: Thu Jul 26, 2018 7:30 pm
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Cats endanger this:



[Photo: Brent Cizek]
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Mugwump 



Joined: 28 Jul 2007
Location: Between London and Melbourne

PostPosted: Thu Jul 26, 2018 7:42 pm
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^ anything that breeds at that rate might need a predator.
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