Nick's Collingwood Bulletin Board Forum Index
 The RulesThe Rules FAQFAQ
   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   CalendarCalendar   SearchSearch 
Log inLog in RegisterRegister
 
Deaths from Domestic Violence

Users browsing this topic:0 Registered, 0 Hidden and 0 Guests
Registered Users: None

Post new topic   Reply to topic    Nick's Collingwood Bulletin Board Forum Index -> Victoria Park Tavern
 
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Pies4shaw Leo

pies4shaw


Joined: 08 Oct 2007


PostPosted: Sat Jul 14, 2018 2:30 pm
Post subject: Reply with quote

Stop it, roar - you're interfering with the Rhetoric Of Misplaced Angst.
Back to top  
View user's profile Send private message  
roar 



Joined: 01 Sep 2004


PostPosted: Sat Jul 14, 2018 2:50 pm
Post subject: Reply with quote

I understand that it's hard for blokes to now have to act respectfully or speak up against appalling behaviour just because the lib movement has allowed women to get all uppity.
_________________
kill for collingwood!
Back to top  
View user's profile Send private message  
stui magpie Gemini

Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.


Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto

PostPosted: Sat Jul 14, 2018 7:59 pm
Post subject: Reply with quote

think positive wrote:
stui magpie wrote:
^

I'm not that sure it's that simple. I've posted before about the chemical difference, but I'm starting to think it's more of a personality thing.

In hindsight, I knew 2 men who both bashed their wives when I was a kid. I didn't know then, I found out later. Much later in one case and I was surprised particularly in the latter case as my parents were friends with him and I liked him.

As a hypothesis, I think these men were missing something. A feeling of control of their lives, self esteem issues, pick a number of similar things. Being the bid dominant man at home, putting the missus and kids back in their box with a smack, was their way of boosting their own self esteem and regaining control, despite knowing that what they were doing was wrong. Basically about control and power. It's related to the why people bully others scenario.

Side note, I went to primary school with one of the sons and high school with the other. The former joined the navy at 15 as an apprentice chef and committed suicide in his 40's. His dad committed suicide in his 60's. The other pursued a footy career for a while, then was a diver with the police, then "died suddenly" in his late 40's early 50's, around the same age his dad died of a heart attack


were these guys smaller - much smaller than their wives?

why were you surprised? back in the day my dad was popular, because he signed up for stuff, and put on an act, it wasnt until my younger sister made aussie and olympic teams that his true bully boy ways became some what obvious in public. and she is 8 years younger than me. No one knew.

and what if you did know? what would you or your parents have done? this question fascinates me, i guess i waited for a white knight for a long time, and then saved myself when it wasnt coming.

my dad is a little over 6 foot, he was always a big powerful man, easy 100-110 all his adult life (id say he is about 150 now). my mum was just 5'4" and about 55kg dripping wet. i dont know too many women with partners with such a difference in weight/strength/size the other way around. Is it Men dont hit women that stops them defending themselves these men?

And what could my mum possibly have done to defend herself? legally, before he killed her first? how many women die because the cops cant take action until its too $£$%^%%$ late?

when i was 16 i had a mad passionate 2 years with a guy only slightly bigger than me, but a lot stronger, I thought he was my forever. so did everyone else. he gave me a black eye, hed never even looked at me funny before then, i walked that day. never looked back. but things were different even then, than in my parents and your parents day.


Interesting questions. I asked my mum about the bloke I was surprised about.

He was about 5'7", red headed builder. His mrs was around (from memory) 5'6" and slim. I was as tall as both at 12, but he seemed bigger.

I asked mum if she knew he hit his mrs and she said probably. She never saw anything but had heard the gossip, but she liked him and felt sorry for him (she couldn't explain why)

My parents used to hang out with them a bit, going over for dinner etc. I didn't know the kids as they went to the local Catholic school and I went to the public school so that made it a bit awkward.

Mum said that after he died of a heart attack, she raised the kids then pissed off to QLD for a while, but went back to Toc for a while years later. Mum bumped into her in the supermarket and they had a good chat, with her reminiscing over the old days. Mum said she never said a bad thing about him, even then decades after his death.

Get a psychologist to figure that out, I can't.

_________________
Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down.
Back to top  
View user's profile Send private message  
HAL 

Please don't shout at me - I can't help it.


Joined: 17 Mar 2003


PostPosted: Sat Jul 14, 2018 8:02 pm
Post subject: Reply with quote

My mental algorithm selected that as the best response to your statement.
Back to top  
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website  
Mugwump 



Joined: 28 Jul 2007
Location: Between London and Melbourne

PostPosted: Sat Jul 14, 2018 8:09 pm
Post subject: Reply with quote

roar wrote:
I understand that it's hard for blokes to now have to act respectfully or speak up against appalling behaviour just because the lib movement has allowed women to get all uppity.


It’s not hard at all. The very great majority of men do. Indeed,they did so before women got “uppity” and they do so now. Just as most women behaved well towards men, and a few were devious and nihilistic. What point are you trying to make ?

_________________
Two more flags before I die!
Back to top  
View user's profile Send private message  
think positive Libra

Side By Side


Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere

PostPosted: Sat Jul 14, 2018 8:52 pm
Post subject: Reply with quote

David wrote:
think positive wrote:
Skids wrote:
Yeah, it really is a man's world...

85% of homeless... are men did they all leave a marriage behind? and since this is obviously its all womens fault, did she kick him out, for no reason of course, every time? how much does mental illness or PTSD have to do with this stat?

76% of suicides . ....are men how much of this have to do with real men dont cry or show emotion?

70% of murder victims .... are men means jack shit without the stats of sex of the killer. im guessing the higher percentage are male??


92% of workplace deaths .... are men not surprising considering the low percentage of women in "dangerous"jobs compared to men.

97% of war deaths .... are men not sure how you get equal numbers of women signing up

14% of men get custody after a divorce. how many want custody? more importantly how many have shared custody?



While those questions may be relevant rebuttals to someone claiming widespread male victimisation at the hands of women, I don’t think they detract from the point that, in certain areas, men seem to be faring badly. Whatever the agenda of some who bring such statistics up, I think that, rather than trying to find ways to dismiss them, we ought to be taking them seriously.


im not dismissing the claims at all, they are serious questions, not rebuttals. why so defensive?

_________________
You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either!
Back to top  
View user's profile Send private message  
think positive Libra

Side By Side


Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere

PostPosted: Sat Jul 14, 2018 8:55 pm
Post subject: Reply with quote

stui magpie wrote:


Interesting questions. I asked my mum about the bloke I was surprised about.

He was about 5'7", red headed builder. His mrs was around (from memory) 5'6" and slim. I was as tall as both at 12, but he seemed bigger.

I asked mum if she knew he hit his mrs and she said probably. She never saw anything but had heard the gossip, but she liked him and felt sorry for him (she couldn't explain why)

My parents used to hang out with them a bit, going over for dinner etc. I didn't know the kids as they went to the local Catholic school and I went to the public school so that made it a bit awkward.

Mum said that after he died of a heart attack, she raised the kids then pissed off to QLD for a while, but went back to Toc for a while years later. Mum bumped into her in the supermarket and they had a good chat, with her reminiscing over the old days. Mum said she never said a bad thing about him, even then decades after his death.

Get a psychologist to figure that out, I can't.

thankyou for answering so clearly and fully.

I think back them it was just the way, you dont complain or air your dirty laundry. I cant imagine my mum ever telling a stranger what had happened to her, and She never really ran him down to us, even after she left. He did and still does, but i really dont give him the chance now, i just cut him short and leave or say bye and hang up! i dont care how old he is, there is never any excuse for his behaviour or attitude. Im only sorry it took me so long to be this strong.

_________________
You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either!
Back to top  
View user's profile Send private message  
stui magpie Gemini

Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.


Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto

PostPosted: Sat Jul 14, 2018 9:14 pm
Post subject: Reply with quote

think positive wrote:
stui magpie wrote:


Interesting questions. I asked my mum about the bloke I was surprised about.

He was about 5'7", red headed builder. His mrs was around (from memory) 5'6" and slim. I was as tall as both at 12, but he seemed bigger.

I asked mum if she knew he hit his mrs and she said probably. She never saw anything but had heard the gossip, but she liked him and felt sorry for him (she couldn't explain why)

My parents used to hang out with them a bit, going over for dinner etc. I didn't know the kids as they went to the local Catholic school and I went to the public school so that made it a bit awkward.

Mum said that after he died of a heart attack, she raised the kids then pissed off to QLD for a while, but went back to Toc for a while years later. Mum bumped into her in the supermarket and they had a good chat, with her reminiscing over the old days. Mum said she never said a bad thing about him, even then decades after his death.

Get a psychologist to figure that out, I can't.

thankyou for answering so clearly and fully.

I think back them it was just the way, you dont complain or air your dirty laundry. I cant imagine my mum ever telling a stranger what had happened to her, and She never really ran him down to us, even after she left. He did and still does, but i really dont give him the chance now, i just cut him short and leave or say bye and hang up! i dont care how old he is, there is never any excuse for his behaviour or attitude. Im only sorry it took me so long to be this strong.


Cheers

She followed up with a couple more theories after she took time to think.

In this case, she reckons it started after the partnership he had with another bloke broke up and he was reduced to doing odd jobs and drank too much, all of which was after they used to hang out.

The other would be really unpopular. To make some context, she grew up in the bush. Small country towns where people were more status conscious than in feudal England. She also had a dad who never raised a hand to her (or her mother) but would tear apart anyone who said anything bad about her. (no joke. The man was built like a chimp and nearly as strong. One bloke made a blue remark about his daughter in the pub one night and he belted shit out of him and the blokes who tried to stop him. This would have been in the early 60's)

She trusted men and found women to be bitches and can cite numerous examples of women who, if they got belted by their husband, in her mind they bought it on themselves with their behaviour.

I put the counter argument to her about the men who go to work, cop shit all day and take their frustration out on the mrs at night and she did agree. There's also just the fkn bullies like your dad.

_________________
Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down.
Back to top  
View user's profile Send private message  
think positive Libra

Side By Side


Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere

PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2018 12:42 am
Post subject: Reply with quote

the only thing i disagree with is the brought it on themselves, no one deserves to be punched up by their spouse, or anyone else for that matter. and yes he has always been a bully! i agree.
_________________
You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either!
Back to top  
View user's profile Send private message  
David Libra

I dare you to try


Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda

PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2018 2:00 am
Post subject: Reply with quote

think positive wrote:
David wrote:
think positive wrote:
Skids wrote:
Yeah, it really is a man's world...

85% of homeless... are men did they all leave a marriage behind? and since this is obviously its all womens fault, did she kick him out, for no reason of course, every time? how much does mental illness or PTSD have to do with this stat?

76% of suicides . ....are men how much of this have to do with real men dont cry or show emotion?

70% of murder victims .... are men means jack shit without the stats of sex of the killer. im guessing the higher percentage are male??


92% of workplace deaths .... are men not surprising considering the low percentage of women in "dangerous"jobs compared to men.

97% of war deaths .... are men not sure how you get equal numbers of women signing up

14% of men get custody after a divorce. how many want custody? more importantly how many have shared custody?



While those questions may be relevant rebuttals to someone claiming widespread male victimisation at the hands of women, I don’t think they detract from the point that, in certain areas, men seem to be faring badly. Whatever the agenda of some who bring such statistics up, I think that, rather than trying to find ways to dismiss them, we ought to be taking them seriously.


im not dismissing the claims at all, they are serious questions, not rebuttals. why so defensive?


Tbh, that’s kind of how your responses seemed (defensive, I mean). For instance, if, say, 70% of murder victims are men (I haven’t checked the statistics myself, but it seems plausible), why does the gender of their (overwhelmingly male) killers matter? It doesn’t help the victims. And I think the question about homelessness was even more heartless – there was more than a hint of blaming people for their own situation there. It really did come across as a “yeah, but” exercise. I apologise if I misunderstood your intent.

As for suicides, I think you’re right – much of it is about men being socialised to be less emotionally open. But that is a way that men have it (relatively) bad, then, and something that needs to be addressed.

None of this means that men have it worse than women, or anything like that. Seriois structural oppression of women is real, and occurs in many facets of society – only a fool would deny that. But where I think statistics like these are important is that they remind us it’s not all a one-way street, and that while we’re trying to make society better for women (as we should), we shouldn’t forget the disadvantages faced by men, too. I feel like a lot of people pay lip service to that idea but don’t actually make it part of their political agenda in any meaningful way (a lot of that comes from old patriarchal ideas about men being able to take care of themselves and being wimps if they ask for help, and so on). And even bringing up this stuff can make men look like pathetic crybabies, so it’s kind of a vicious circle!

I’ll never forget when I was about 21 and got accosted by a charity solicitor outside Monash University looking for donations to tackle domestic violence against women. We got talking and I asked if his charity had any services for male victims of domestic violence – not because I was some fedora-wearing MRA in the making, but because I’d had a number of conversations with my (hardcore feminist) ex-girlfriend in which she’d talked about how important and under-discussed the problem of domestic violence against men is, and I was too naive to understand how taboo that was. I may as well have been talking about chemtrails or unicorns. The guy literally laughed in my face.

I read stories in the news now of gay men who are treated horribly by their partners, sons who are beaten by their fathers (as I was) and, yes, the odd man who gets violently mistreated by his female partner – all real suffering by real people who don’t deserve it – and I think, to that guy, a domestic violence advocate of all people, and to so many others, this was all just a big joke, something worth sneering at. I’m not asking people to back down one jot from their feminist advocacy, but let’s make sure we’re doing something to address those attitudes. Because that approach of downplaying violence against men and other forms of suffering only perpetuates the broader problem of men not seeking help, not realising that they need it, feeling ashamed for being vulnerable. Breaking down that stigma would be a great step forward.
Back to top  
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail MSN Messenger  
think positive Libra

Side By Side


Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere

PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2018 8:56 am
Post subject: Reply with quote

Fair enough, I can see how I came across that way. I’d really like skids to answer as he does this every time something like this is posted. Do his comments re work place deaths and war add anything here? it’s not helpful. My feeling is every man woman and child should be free from abuse.

Yes my of course this is all women’s fault comment came across as smart arse but it’s also true. My mum left my dad. Can you blame her? They split the cash equally. (Not willingly on his part). She didn’t waste money ever, and he blew all of his and lives pension to pension. His situation is of his own making. There is also a hell of a lot of dead beat dads out there not helping to pay to raise their children. Of course the opposite is also true in smaller numbers. Still not helpful.

The majority of men are bigger, stronger, can do more damage, that’s a fact. In society majority rules, in any situation, if there is a problem with something you try and do the fix that will help the most first. Or the most at risk. And sadly, that’s women. How many women leave the family home in the dead of night or when hubby walks out the door to work and sneaks off with the kids because they are afraid they won’t make it if he knows? How many men?

To fix the problem completely we need to start a lot earlier. Stop the cycle.

Caring about x a lot doesn’t mean you dismiss y. Rants like the one above remind me of Seinfeld, “not that there’s anything wrong with that” comment. Political correctness. Ugh. Assumptions. Ugh. Just fix the problem for everyone.

_________________
You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either!
Back to top  
View user's profile Send private message  
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Nick's Collingwood Bulletin Board Forum Index -> Victoria Park Tavern All times are GMT + 11 Hours

Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4
Page 4 of 4   

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum



Privacy Policy

Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group