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Is this a sexist slur?

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Mugwump 



Joined: 28 Jul 2007
Location: Between London and Melbourne

PostPosted: Sat Jul 07, 2018 11:55 am
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^ It’s certainly the most allowable, and practised, form of discrimination against individuals in corporate life, as anyone who has seen enough selection processes knows. All those “diverse shortlists”.

One might design policy based on helping groups of people who share common circumstances, but ascribing intentionality to groups is a very aggressive thing to do. It’s usually about the struggle for power and advantage. It’s time we recognized that.

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Last edited by Mugwump on Sat Jul 07, 2018 11:59 am; edited 1 time in total
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David Libra

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Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda

PostPosted: Sat Jul 07, 2018 11:56 am
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Pies4shaw wrote:
No, it isn't - and the appeal to linguistic form in this case is pointless and stupid. "Men" is not a category of routine abuse or vilification in the way that "Aborigines" is. Why is that? Because "Men" actually, by and large, rule the planet but "Aborigines" are systematically subordinated and subjugated.

All political utterance is context-dependent and is actually incapable of being reduced to these sorts of simple formal comparisons.


I agree that context is crucial, and that it’s necessary to recognise power dynamics in these things. If that were the only point of difference, though, one could understand how someone acting in good faith could interpret Hanson-Young’s statement as a categorical slur, justified or otherwise, and put it in the same category as “reverse racism” and the like. But WPT’s argument here is that it is either clearly not a reference to all men – in terms of its syntax, I don’t think that’s true – or that, regardless, it is up to men to take offence or not, in an “if the cap fits” kind of way. In the case of the latter conclusion, I don’t think that’s an ideal approach to political discourse – I believe clarity of language is a desirable thing, and that ambiguous or manipulative language should be avoided, particularly when it can be interpreted as prejudicial against a certain group.

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Pies4shaw Leo

pies4shaw


Joined: 08 Oct 2007


PostPosted: Sat Jul 07, 2018 12:38 pm
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I think this is an unsophisticated way of approaching things. If I say “the nutter-right is taking over” and “Aborogines are taking over”, neither is literally true as a matter of fact. However, the former has semantic content, whereas the latter is just self-evidently stupid.

The way I know Hanson-Young wasn’t referring to “all” men (whatever that means) is because I knew, in context, that she didn’t mean me, or men like me. It is overwhelmingly true that when women are raped they are raped by men. It is also beyond obvious that not all men are rapists and that not all women are rape victims. So, saying “men need to stop raping women” or the like is a form of shorthand. It’s, no doubt, a very complex utterance but amongst the many meanings it did have, the one DL contended for was not available to anyone who has passed third grade.

“Men” are not, in our political discourse at this particular point in time, discernible as a “group” capable of being vilified in the way the last part of your post might be intended to suggest. Her language was loose - but we do all know what she meant, even - I guess - the wilfully ignorant who support stupid Right “causes”.
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stui magpie Gemini

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Joined: 03 May 2005
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 07, 2018 1:46 pm
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watt price tully wrote:
^ Here we go. The right wing boys chorus. Let's blame Sarah Hanson -Young for Leyonhom's behaviour. Really? For goodness sake.

Coming from the same if not similar chorus of those who blame feminism for the plight of men: she was asking for it perhaps? She made me do it. Haven't I seen that before recently?

Pathetic.


Really? Who's blaming her? Me? Mugwump?

I think you need a medium rare steak, clearly your mood and intelligence are suffering. Wink

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think positive Libra

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Joined: 30 Jun 2005
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 07, 2018 2:30 pm
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Surely this is all down to choosing to be offended. It just seems ludicrous. Far worse he said on the footy field
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Mugwump 



Joined: 28 Jul 2007
Location: Between London and Melbourne

PostPosted: Sat Jul 07, 2018 8:26 pm
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^ yep, a schoolteacher in a playground would sort it out quickly. But the national parliament cannot be held to the high standards of 12 year-olds. The venom sacs in a 12 year old aren’t developed enough.
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think positive Libra

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 07, 2018 8:29 pm
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Or they don’t know to get a lawyer!
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Wokko Pisces

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Joined: 04 Oct 2005


PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 7:52 pm
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Bernardi gives an insight into the cry bullying SHY.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-n7gF7lGAdQ
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Mugwump 



Joined: 28 Jul 2007
Location: Between London and Melbourne

PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 8:14 pm
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^ that’s what I have also been told by a mate who is a parliamentarian. She hands it out very freely, knowing perfectly well what she is doing, then plays identity politics victim when anyone takes it up to her. Well said, Cory.
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HAL 

Please don't shout at me - I can't help it.


Joined: 17 Mar 2003


PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 8:15 pm
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How do you know a class act he or she doubt a reputation could survive the ocean of slime that the Republican Party would pour on her if they thought I was a threat hands it out knowing well what she is doing then plays identity politics victim when anyone takes it her?
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David Libra

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Joined: 27 Jul 2003
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 12:31 am
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Eh. Cory “Common Sense Does Not Live Here” Bernardi is pretty much the king of bad takes, so I’ll take his assessments on parliamemtary behaviour with a grain of salt.
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Mugwump 



Joined: 28 Jul 2007
Location: Between London and Melbourne

PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 2:24 am
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David wrote:
Eh. Cory “Common Sense Does Not Live Here” Bernardi is pretty much the king of bad takes, so I’ll take his assessments on parliamemtary behaviour with a grain of salt.


I don’t know much about him, but prompted by your blanket dismissal I just spent half an hour reading several of his blogs. His “common sense” seems to consist of fairly orthodox conservative positions, which may be unfashionable, but are probably closer to what most people believe than your views. I was pleased to see someone advocating values that underpinned the relatively gentle and respectful society we used to have.

So do you mean you disagree with him, or has he genuinely really been off with the fairies somewhere ? Has he any record of unparliamentary behaviour?

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HAL 

Please don't shout at me - I can't help it.


Joined: 17 Mar 2003


PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 2:29 am
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I have heard that opinion, but I would like to know more before I form my own.
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ronrat 



Joined: 22 May 2006
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 8:20 am
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Basically both parties are largely irrelevant in the scheme of things and hopefully will disappear to duke it out in court without detracting from more important issues. They are both at fault. For a lot of things.
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David Libra

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Joined: 27 Jul 2003
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 8:29 am
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Mugwump wrote:
David wrote:
Eh. Cory “Common Sense Does Not Live Here” Bernardi is pretty much the king of bad takes, so I’ll take his assessments on parliamemtary behaviour with a grain of salt.


I don’t know much about him, but prompted by your blanket dismissal I just spent half an hour reading several of his blogs. His “common sense” seems to consist of fairly orthodox conservative positions, which may be unfashionable, but are probably closer to what most people believe than your views. I was pleased to see someone advocating values that underpinned the relatively gentle and respectful society we used to have.

So do you mean you disagree with him, or has he genuinely really been off with the fairies somewhere ? Has he any record of unparliamentary behaviour?


He strikes me as a self-righteous blowhard who is very happy to dish it out but doesn’t like to get it back in return. His comments that same-sex marriage would lead to people marrying their pets is just one example of his exquisite grip on reality in action. He also left the Liberal Party because Turnbull is too left-wing and a “warmist” to boot. The “interjections” that he accuses Hanson-Young of probably relate to her calling him and his ilk fascists for supporting Australia’s detention centres – the sort of thing that people like him think they have the moral high ground on.

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