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HAL
Please don't shout at me - I can't help it.
Joined: 17 Mar 2003
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| Does a judge makes a decision that? |
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Wokko 
Come and take it.
Joined: 04 Oct 2005
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If he had just obeyed our nightmarish Orwellian laws he would have been fine!
I'm fine with living in a society where I can get snatched and hastily sentenced to prison.
Just because something is the law doesn't make it right. |
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David 
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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I’m not sure I understand the purpose of the media gag order here – if there’s no potential of prejudicing a jury, what purpose does it serve other than to protect the courts from scrutiny?
_________________
All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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Pi 
Joined: 13 Feb 2006
Location: SA
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| Pies4shaw wrote: | | Pi wrote: | | It might well be legal but it’s not a good look for the legal system in the UK, the judge in this case and quite a few other non-related cases has liberally used the gag order legislation, probably excessively and without any real independent oversight. The speed at which it happened makes it all look like a kangaroo court, even for someone on a suspended sentence. |
Who would you fancy to provide the “independent oversight”? When a judge makes a decision that is inappropriate, the recourse is by way of what we call an appeal. |
For a start the judge making the decision was also a witness and a plaintiff, (he can been seen looking at the live stream from a window) he probably directed the prosecution and arrest and then puts a gag order on it all.
At the very least a different judge should have been appointed to hear the case.
Everything that's happened here undermines the legal system in the worst possible way.
let me simplify it for you;
Imagine hitting the back of a car and then the person you hit calls the police and then you go to court and the judge is the same guy you hit and you get convicted all on he same day.
_________________
Pi = Infinite = Collingwood = Always
Floreat Pica |
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thesoretoothsayer
Joined: 26 Apr 2017
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| David wrote: | | I’m not sure I understand the purpose of the media gag order here – if there’s no potential of prejudicing a jury, what purpose does it serve other than to protect the courts from scrutiny? |
In his livestream Robinson was filming the accused and identifying them as perps. I suppose the gag order is to stop the jury from gaining knowledge of the video.
I watched it last night. Nothing much happens.
It would've been best if the police simply ignored Robinson. |
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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| Thanks both – understand a lot better now why the gag order was placed and why he received the sentence. Clearly a professional troublemaker with little respect for legal process. I didn’t shed any tears for Hinch when he got jailed either. |
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stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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| David wrote: | | Thanks both – understand a lot better now why the gag order was placed and why he received the sentence. Clearly a professional troublemaker with little respect for legal process. |
But he's right wing and antil-fundamentalist Islam, which separates him from all the left wing professional trouble makers.
I had no idea who this guy was until now. Done a little reading up on him, his soccer fanaticism does paint him as a bit of a dill, but then he is english (even though of Irish parents), but his stance on radical Islam seems eminently sensible.
I'm still not quite sure what has actually happened to him. He was arrested, I can see that, there's a gag order apparently in place until the trial of the alleged pedophile ring is finished, so it would seem he's being held in remand. He surely can't have been tried and sentenced that quickly, that would be a massive breach of natural justice.
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Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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thesoretoothsayer
Joined: 26 Apr 2017
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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| stui magpie wrote: | | David wrote: | | Thanks both – understand a lot better now why the gag order was placed and why he received the sentence. Clearly a professional troublemaker with little respect for legal process. |
But he's right wing and antil-fundamentalist Islam, which separates him from all the left wing professional trouble makers.
I had no idea who this guy was until now. Done a little reading up on him, his soccer fanaticism does paint him as a bit of a dill, but then he is english (even though of Irish parents), but his stance on radical Islam seems eminently sensible.
I'm still not quite sure what has actually happened to him. He was arrested, I can see that, there's a gag order apparently in place until the trial of the alleged pedophile ring is finished, so it would seem he's being held in remand. He surely can't have been tried and sentenced that quickly, that would be a massive breach of natural justice. |
It seems he had already been convicted with a suspended sentence for doing the exact same thing – so, as with any such case, breaking the conditions led the sentence to be automatically imposed (whereas ‘breaching the peace’ was the reason for the initial arrest, I’m guessing that what he got ultimately done for was contempt of court). That’s my impression, anyway.
https://www.quora.com/Can-the-police-arrest-you-for-one-thing-and-charge-you-for-another-without-re-arresting-you-UK
_________________
All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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| David wrote: | | stui magpie wrote: | | David wrote: | | Thanks both – understand a lot better now why the gag order was placed and why he received the sentence. Clearly a professional troublemaker with little respect for legal process. |
But he's right wing and antil-fundamentalist Islam, which separates him from all the left wing professional trouble makers.
I had no idea who this guy was until now. Done a little reading up on him, his soccer fanaticism does paint him as a bit of a dill, but then he is english (even though of Irish parents), but his stance on radical Islam seems eminently sensible.
I'm still not quite sure what has actually happened to him. He was arrested, I can see that, there's a gag order apparently in place until the trial of the alleged pedophile ring is finished, so it would seem he's being held in remand. He surely can't have been tried and sentenced that quickly, that would be a massive breach of natural justice. |
It seems he had already been convicted with a suspended sentence for doing the exact same thing – so, as with any such case, breaking the conditions led the sentence to be automatically imposed (whereas ‘breaching the peace’ was the reason for the initial arrest, I’m guessing that what he got ultimately done for was contempt of court). That’s my impression, anyway.
https://www.quora.com/Can-the-police-arrest-you-for-one-thing-and-charge-you-for-another-without-re-arresting-you-UK |
But being arrested isn't the same as being convicted. They surely can't apply the suspended sentence based on him being arrested, you'd think someone must first be tried and found guilty? It may justify him being held in remand rather than being bailed, but he cannot have been sentenced without a trial.
_________________
Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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Pies4shaw 
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
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| David wrote: | | Thanks both – understand a lot better now why the gag order was placed and why he received the sentence. Clearly a professional troublemaker with little respect for legal process. I didn’t shed any tears for Hinch when he got jailed either. |
It's important to appreciate that the suppression order continues only until the end of the criminal trial he was said to be prejudicing. The trial is ongoing but it will end soon enough. It isn't as if the decision has Cabinet confidentiality and we won't know anything more about it for 30 years. It will be able to be fully reported on in the short term, just not immediately.
It isn't a "gag order" to protect the decision that has been made. It is a suppression order to prevent second-hand reporting of what he was doing to interfere with a current trial. It is, of course, a blunt instrument but the apprehended risk seems to have been that if he wasn't shut down immediately and the media wasn't very temporarily prevented from reporting why, there is a probability that the defence in the "grooming" trial would seek a stay of proceedings on the basis that this idiot's "reporting" has denied the defendants the right to fair trial. At least one previous "grooming" trial prosecution (Rochdale) is said to have almost collapsed because the courts didn't move fast enough to protect the probity of their process.
This is what is done in our legal system to ensure that the accused is given a fair trial, whoever they are and whatever they are accused of doing. |
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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| stui magpie wrote: | | But being arrested isn't the same as being convicted. They surely can't apply the suspended sentence based on him being arrested, you'd think someone must first be tried and found guilty? It may justify him being held in remand rather than being bailed, but he cannot have been sentenced without a trial. |
I read here that he’d already received a court hearing (not sure how reliable the source is):
http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2018/05/the-strange-case-of-tommy-robinson.php
_________________
All watched over by machines of loving grace
Last edited by David on Tue May 29, 2018 7:43 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Pies4shaw
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
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| stui magpie wrote: | | David wrote: | | stui magpie wrote: | | David wrote: | | Thanks both – understand a lot better now why the gag order was placed and why he received the sentence. Clearly a professional troublemaker with little respect for legal process. |
But he's right wing and antil-fundamentalist Islam, which separates him from all the left wing professional trouble makers.
I had no idea who this guy was until now. Done a little reading up on him, his soccer fanaticism does paint him as a bit of a dill, but then he is english (even though of Irish parents), but his stance on radical Islam seems eminently sensible.
I'm still not quite sure what has actually happened to him. He was arrested, I can see that, there's a gag order apparently in place until the trial of the alleged pedophile ring is finished, so it would seem he's being held in remand. He surely can't have been tried and sentenced that quickly, that would be a massive breach of natural justice. |
It seems he had already been convicted with a suspended sentence for doing the exact same thing – so, as with any such case, breaking the conditions led the sentence to be automatically imposed (whereas ‘breaching the peace’ was the reason for the initial arrest, I’m guessing that what he got ultimately done for was contempt of court). That’s my impression, anyway.
https://www.quora.com/Can-the-police-arrest-you-for-one-thing-and-charge-you-for-another-without-re-arresting-you-UK |
But being arrested isn't the same as being convicted. They surely can't apply the suspended sentence based on him being arrested, you'd think someone must first be tried and found guilty? It may justify him being held in remand rather than being bailed, but he cannot have been sentenced without a trial. |
He has been jailed for contempt of court, it seems. See:
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2018/05/26/right-wing-activist-tommy-robinson-reportedly-jailed-after-filming-outside-child-grooming-trial.html
Dealing with a possible contempt is something that always happens summarily when the concern is an interference with present criminal proceedings. Sometimes, the consideration of an alleged criminal contempt (eg, for breach of an undertaking to a court to do something or not to do something) can be deferred and tried in the ordinary way. An apprehended risk of prejudice to a current legal proceeding is a matter of a different order and must be dealt with urgently. The judge in this case might be right. He might be wrong.
But it isn't part of a conspiracy. |
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stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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I'm not into conspiracy theories, but thanks for the explanation.
I find it hard to believe that a judge (of whatever title) can just hand out contempt of court sentences of longer than a short period (the reported 13 months is hardly a short period) without due process.
_________________
Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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thesoretoothsayer
Joined: 26 Apr 2017
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| Quote: | | But it isn't part of a conspiracy. |
Maybe not on the judiciary's side.
The police are another matter.
Robinson seems to get a lot of police attention:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uVOGpdAz7Lk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PjhWnEYVgso
It isn't hard to imagine that they were looking for any excuse to arrest him (whether warranted or not) because they knew he had a suspended sentence hanging over his head.
He, of course, was stupid enough to give them the opportunity. |
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