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Skids 
Quitting drinking will be one of the best choices you make in your life.
Joined: 11 Sep 2007
Location: Joined 3/6/02 . Member #175
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| eddiesmith wrote: | | We’ll wait and see if anything has changed. The one thing Buckley has been great at is getting these upset wins before getting flogged by a bottom side the next week |
Come on Eddie... see if anythings changed?? Please.
Have always been behind the great man and to see it come together the last few weeks is sensational. We should have beaten GWS.
There's no looking back now people... hold on, you're in for a ride and a half!
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Don't count the days, make the days count. |
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Mugwump
Joined: 28 Jul 2007
Location: Between London and Melbourne
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| eddiesmith wrote: | | We’ll wait and see if anything has changed. The one thing Buckley has been great at is getting these upset wins before getting flogged by a bottom side the next week |
This has been on my mind a fair bit as well, but I think we’ve looked different, these last two weeks. We’ve had against the odds wins before against (eg) Geelong, but they always seemed like manic pressure plus hanging on by fingertips. This was a domination through talent and confidence.
There is a caveat, in that Adelaide were without their key mids and Sloan was clearly carrying a hampering injury, so we should not get ahead of ourselves. But on its own terms, it was a breakthrough. We are rising, now, as a squad of talented footballers settles into one another and begins to believe. How far it can go, it’s too early to know, but we can now reasonably hope for the eight, at least.
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Mugwump
Joined: 28 Jul 2007
Location: Between London and Melbourne
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Dp
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Two more flags before I die! |
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MatthewBoydFanClub
Joined: 12 Feb 2007
Location: Elwood
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We couldn't beat a fit Sloane last night. We also couldn't beat the two invisible Crouch brothers who weren't out there last night. Unfortunately you can only beat the opposition that turned up on the night, but that's no excuse for the players and Buckley is planning to have them flogged at training on Monday for their sins.
Last edited by MatthewBoydFanClub on Sat Apr 14, 2018 10:08 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Pies4shaw 
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
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| RudeBoy wrote: | Mods - disappointed you merged my 'Congratulations to Nathan Buckley' with this one. [I get why you might do it, but I think on this occasion you are wrong].
Seriously after all the shit thrown at Bucks, our coach deserves to have a thread publicly congratulating him. Just my opinion anyway. |
Our team had a great win because its stars had great games all at once, on the back of one of the most dominant ruck performances in the history of the game. Sidey's and Grundy's performances were so brilliant that they even eclipsed fantastic performances by Pendlebury and Treloar (who, IMO, played his best ever game for the Club last night), performances that any other week in the last 20 years might have seen them get the 3 Brownlow votes. We have some genuinely fantastic players. We also field some very ordinary ones - but last night the fantastic players all clicked and ran away with the game. This was a triumph of their will and skill. Crediting that win to the Coach is like crediting Fabulous Phil's 1975 season to the Weed's coaching. Sometimes, brilliant players win games of football. We all hope that it will continue but let's not pretend that Grundy monstering a top ruckman and Sidey murdering Sloane was a triumph of the gameplan. |
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Collingwood Crackerjack
Joined: 28 Jul 2008
Location: Canberra
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| E wrote: | | Collingwood Crackerjack wrote: | | Mugwump wrote: | | PyreneesPie wrote: | | Mugwump wrote: | | [ fundamentally he has the right instincts even if he has made mistakes. |
Travis Cloke said in his recent interview that Bucks has an amazing football brain, equal to the best. Trav then added rather sheepishly that the trouble is he can make things too complicated, because "some of us footballers are pretty dumb". He said that with a smile. |
A wise man once said that a strategy you can’t execute is as bad as having no strategy at all, and ultimately it is up to the coach or leader to translate messages into terms that the average worker can understand. So finally, that too rests at Nathan's door. If that has been an issue in the past, maybe he is learning about that too.
I don’t want to suggest that Buckley has been a great coach. He has obviously had his flaws, and they were inevitable as he has learned from a low base under difficult conditions. I just think he has improved and he gets the best out of a flawed list at present. The good news is that the list is finally improving markedly, and so will his record as it does so. |
Or another way to put it is that the measure of ones mastery and understanding of a concept is how well one can communicate the concept to others, even if they don't think the same as you (or aren't as intelligent as you, to put it in more crude terms).
All well and good to have the best plans ever laid out, but the implementation ultimately rests with the buy-in and understanding of those at the coal face |
It appears there was some buy-in and understanding at the Coal Face wouldn't you say Crackerjack? |
Indeed!
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"The last thing he expected WAS THE FIRST THING HE GOT!!!!!"
© Collingwood Crackerjack, 1992 |
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E
Joined: 05 May 2010
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| Pies4shaw wrote: | | RudeBoy wrote: | Mods - disappointed you merged my 'Congratulations to Nathan Buckley' with this one. [I get why you might do it, but I think on this occasion you are wrong].
Seriously after all the shit thrown at Bucks, our coach deserves to have a thread publicly congratulating him. Just my opinion anyway. |
Our team had a great win because its stars had great games all at once, on the back of one of the most dominant ruck performances in the history of the game. Sidey's and Grundy's performances were so brilliant that they even eclipsed fantastic performances by Pendlebury and Treloar (who, IMO, played his best ever game for the Club last night), performances that any other week in the last 20 years might have seen them get the 3 Brownlow votes. We have some genuinely fantastic players. We also field some very ordinary ones - but last night the fantastic players all clicked and ran away with the game. This was a triumph of their will and skill. Crediting that win to the Coach is like crediting Fabulous Phil's 1975 season to the Weed's coaching. Sometimes, brilliant players win games of football. We all hope that it will continue but let's not pretend that Grundy monstering a top ruckman and Sidey murdering Sloane was a triumph of the gameplan. |
This is such an interesting perspective. I wasnt thinking of this as an explanation. I actually thought the strength of our game last night was that there were very few passengers (although Maynard is really struggling for form).
To explore this further, can you identify who the ordinary ones were last night? With Adams, Moore, Elliot and maybe Wells to come back, it would be good to know who you are referring to.
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Ohhh, the Premiership's a cakewalk ....... |
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Skids
Quitting drinking will be one of the best choices you make in your life.
Joined: 11 Sep 2007
Location: Joined 3/6/02 . Member #175
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| Pies4shaw wrote: | | RudeBoy wrote: | Mods - disappointed you merged my 'Congratulations to Nathan Buckley' with this one. [I get why you might do it, but I think on this occasion you are wrong].
Seriously after all the shit thrown at Bucks, our coach deserves to have a thread publicly congratulating him. Just my opinion anyway. |
Our team had a great win because its stars had great games all at once, on the back of one of the most dominant ruck performances in the history of the game. Sidey's and Grundy's performances were so brilliant that they even eclipsed fantastic performances by Pendlebury and Treloar (who, IMO, played his best ever game for the Club last night), performances that any other week in the last 20 years might have seen them get the 3 Brownlow votes. We have some genuinely fantastic players. We also field some very ordinary ones - but last night the fantastic players all clicked and ran away with the game. This was a triumph of their will and skill. Crediting that win to the Coach is like crediting Fabulous Phil's 1975 season to the Weed's coaching. Sometimes, brilliant players win games of football. We all hope that it will continue but let's not pretend that Grundy monstering a top ruckman and Sidey murdering Sloane was a triumph of the gameplan. |
Oh i get it, we need our good players to play shit ... then win, and then we can give the coach some credit.
That Adelaide team was the same one that touched Richmond up this seasom and most of them out there played in a GF last year.
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Don't count the days, make the days count. |
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RudeBoy
Joined: 28 Nov 2005
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| Pies4shaw wrote: | | RudeBoy wrote: | Mods - disappointed you merged my 'Congratulations to Nathan Buckley' with this one. [I get why you might do it, but I think on this occasion you are wrong].
Seriously after all the shit thrown at Bucks, our coach deserves to have a thread publicly congratulating him. Just my opinion anyway. |
Our team had a great win because its stars had great games all at once, on the back of one of the most dominant ruck performances in the history of the game. Sidey's and Grundy's performances were so brilliant that they even eclipsed fantastic performances by Pendlebury and Treloar (who, IMO, played his best ever game for the Club last night), performances that any other week in the last 20 years might have seen them get the 3 Brownlow votes. We have some genuinely fantastic players. We also field some very ordinary ones - but last night the fantastic players all clicked and ran away with the game. This was a triumph of their will and skill. Crediting that win to the Coach is like crediting Fabulous Phil's 1975 season to the Weed's coaching. Sometimes, brilliant players win games of football. We all hope that it will continue but let's not pretend that Grundy monstering a top ruckman and Sidey murdering Sloane was a triumph of the gameplan. |
You missed my point P4S. In my post I acknowledged the players, as everyone has, but said that we also should congratulate our coach. Remember earlier in the week most of us (including me) were hoping Bucks would drop Stephenson back to the VFL. Bucks had faith in the kid and he responded with 5 goals. It was also Bucks who had Pendles tagging Cripps last week and had Sidey tagging Sloane last night. These were both masterful coaching moves. Similarly, Bucks has shown faith in Cox, while many people, including many on Nicks, have been demanding he be dropped.
I would have thought all Pies fans should give credit where it's due and and congratulate Bucks on great coaching in 2018. |
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AN_Inkling
Joined: 06 Oct 2007
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I find some of the "rationalisations" of last night's win interesting, I see posters wanting to take into account missing or misfiring Adelaide players. Many of those same posters rarely afford our team that consideration, or more specifically our coach, who has routintely been put in more difficult situations than Adelaide faced last night in terms of player availability - and that includes last night by the way.
In each of the last three weeks we have played as a well coached team. We have been organised, difficult to play against and have seen specific plans which worked a treat - nullifying Cripps, Sloane, Cameron and, against the Giants, turning the loss of our entire forward line into almost an advantage by rotating players through, engineering an open and mobile front third.
Any criticism of Buckley is worthless if we can't also recognise when he gets it right.
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Well done boys! |
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swoop42 
Whatcha gonna do when he comes for you?
Joined: 02 Aug 2008
Location: The 18
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How is tagging the opposition's best midfielder around the stoppages a masterful coaching move?
I would have thought it was bloody obvious option for all coaches in every game played and it's a pity it wasn't enacted against Mitchell.
Buckley might be coaching well but to me it's evidence that he's finally arrived at the standard we naively hoped he could deliver from day 1 and a standard more experienced assistant coaches can often deliver from the outset.
He may yet be seen as a great coach in the future but he hasn't always been one and it's rewriting history to suggest it.
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He's mad. He's bad. He's MaynHARD! |
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Pies4shaw
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
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| AN_Inkling wrote: | I find some of the "rationalisations" of last night's win interesting, I see posters wanting to take into account missing or misfiring Adelaide players. Many of those same posters rarely afford our team that consideration, or more specifically our coach, who has routintely been put in more difficult situations than Adelaide faced last night in terms of player availability - and that includes last night by the way.
In each of the last three weeks we have played as a well coached team. We have been organised, difficult to play against and have seen specific plans which worked a treat - nullifying Cripps, Sloane, Cameron and, against the Giants, turning the loss of our entire forward line into almost an advantage by rotating players through, engineering an open and mobile front third.
Any criticism of Buckley is worthless if we can't also recognise when he gets it right. |
You beat what you play against. That's the task. It isn't a handicap - Richmond didn't get half a premiership because Adelaide didn't have all their important players on the park. So it is with last night. We were missing some high-quality players, so were they. That doesn't stop it being a win for the ages. |
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RudeBoy
Joined: 28 Nov 2005
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| swoop42 wrote: | How is tagging the opposition's best midfielder around the stoppages a masterful coaching move?
I would have thought it was bloody obvious option for all coaches in every game played and it's a pity it wasn't enacted against Mitchell.
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Using players like Greenwood, Crisp, or Adams as taggers, is not masterful coaching, but using Pendles and Sidey is masterful. In fact, I can't recall either of them being used in this fashion ever before. |
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AN_Inkling
Joined: 06 Oct 2007
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| swoop42 wrote: | How is tagging the opposition's best midfielder around the stoppages a masterful coaching move?
I would have thought it was bloody obvious option for all coaches in every game played and it's a pity it wasn't enacted against Mitchell.
Buckley might be coaching well but to me it's evidence that he's finally arrived at the standard we naively hoped he could deliver from day 1 and a standard more experienced assistant coaches can often deliver from the outset.
He may yet be seen as a great coach in the future but he hasn't always been one and it's rewriting history to suggest it. |
What is masterful then? Was it restructuring our forward line with our first 7 options missing? Or our defence with only one tall defender available?
It's easy to downplay any coaching moves as obvious. If it really was that simple, Sloane, Cripps and Cameron would be shutdown every game. It's well enough to want to do something, to do if effectively is another.
The coach cops the criticism when we play poorly and Bucks certainly has had that. For that to mean anything he also deserves to be given credit when we go well. We played well above expectation against the Giants and the Crows, some of the credit has to go to the coach for such elevated performances. And it's a standard well above what we'd have expected from any coach. This is not to say that Bucks is the best coach in the comp, but if we produced performances like that every week then he would be.
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Well done boys! |
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Pies4shaw
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
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| RudeBoy wrote: | | Pies4shaw wrote: | | RudeBoy wrote: | Mods - disappointed you merged my 'Congratulations to Nathan Buckley' with this one. [I get why you might do it, but I think on this occasion you are wrong].
Seriously after all the shit thrown at Bucks, our coach deserves to have a thread publicly congratulating him. Just my opinion anyway. |
Our team had a great win because its stars had great games all at once, on the back of one of the most dominant ruck performances in the history of the game. Sidey's and Grundy's performances were so brilliant that they even eclipsed fantastic performances by Pendlebury and Treloar (who, IMO, played his best ever game for the Club last night), performances that any other week in the last 20 years might have seen them get the 3 Brownlow votes. We have some genuinely fantastic players. We also field some very ordinary ones - but last night the fantastic players all clicked and ran away with the game. This was a triumph of their will and skill. Crediting that win to the Coach is like crediting Fabulous Phil's 1975 season to the Weed's coaching. Sometimes, brilliant players win games of football. We all hope that it will continue but let's not pretend that Grundy monstering a top ruckman and Sidey murdering Sloane was a triumph of the gameplan. |
You missed my point P4S. In my post I acknowledged the players, as everyone has, but said that we also should congratulate our coach. Remember earlier in the week most of us (including me) were hoping Bucks would drop Stephenson back to the VFL. Bucks had faith in the kid and he responded with 5 goals. It was also Bucks who had Pendles tagging Cripps last week and had Sidey tagging Sloane last night. These were both masterful coaching moves. Similarly, Bucks has shown faith in Cox, while many people, including many on Nicks, have been demanding he be dropped.
I would have thought all Pies fans should give credit where it's due and and congratulate Bucks on great coaching in 2018. |
It depends, doesn't it, on whether the coaching is "great" or merely not so inept that it is getting in the way of the good players doing their best? So far, we've had a good win, a win against genuinely dreadful opposition and two losses, one sort of creditable (if you want to believe in the tooth fairy) and one not. In two games (GWS and Adelaide) our effort has been good throughout the game. In the other two, our efforts were spasmodic. Nobody enjoys Collingwood beating Carlton more than I do but, let's face it, we played 45 minutes of good footy and then sat on the splice (that's not a harsh view - it's the one Buckley adopted in his public comment after the match).
Someone has to close Sloane down. Normally, Adams or Greenwood would get him, I suppose, but they were injured. Treloar can't tag and Brown still has his "L" plates on. It isn't the first time this season that Sidey's been asked to tag (he tagged Mitchell, with - shall we say - less success in round 1) - it's just the first time it's worked. It's probably better than watching him play Sidey in the backline or as a defensive wingman for 50 games in a row but it's not "great".
My position is quite clear - I didn't dismiss Buckley's coaching lightly - he'd been at it for three and a half years before I decided, reluctantly, that he didn't then seem to have a clue. Similarly, the fact that the team won well last night isn't going to change my thinking overnight. Teams have good games and bad games and one's appraisal of the team's progress shouldn't be made by reference to what's just happened but rather by reference to what seems to be happening over a period of time. Buckley is a great of the Club (he wasn't allowed to wear Barry Price's number for nothing) and I'd love to see him succeed on the big stage. Nevertheless, I will continue to want him replaced as coach until I see a body of evidence establishing that he knows what he's doing. At the moment, what I see is that we murdered Adelaide in the midfield on the back of 4 performances (Sidey, Grundey, Pendey and Trelley) all worthy of 3 Brownlow votes. In a very limited sense of "good", it's good that Grundy was rucking, rather than playing FF and that Sidebottom and Pendlebury were in the midfield rather than on the half-back flank but I'm not sure that required any special insight.
Perhaps it's all building to something. I certainly hope it is - but we are way short of knowing, yet, whether anything much has changed. |
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