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lihei 
Joined: 07 Sep 2003
Location: One-Eyed Hill
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| RudeBoy wrote: | ...However, if we lose to the scum in round 3, then all hell will break loose.  |
Agreed. This is when the pressure comes right on.
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VOTE NO. Cancel the Cancel Culture. |
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5 from the wing on debut
Joined: 27 May 2016
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| Post subject: Re: What has plucked our club | |
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| RudeBoy wrote: | Putting the coaching position aside - as we all have firm positions on that issue - there are two factors which have ruined our chances of success imo.
1. The disastrous throwing away of highly prized draft picks on Scharenberg, Freeman and effectively Aish. We should have set ourselves up with two gun players, like we did the year we drafted Pendles and Daisy.
2. The recruitment of Gubby Allan over the top of Neil Balme, and the lying to Balme that Allan would not be taking his job, was an absolute disgrace. This was when the rot set in, and it led to the ridiculous recruitment of Mayne and Wells on big dosh, fully stretching our salary cap, making it impossible to recruit a top player.
and perhaps
3. The trading of 2 first round draft picks for Treloar looks to have been way over the odds. We paid too much.
These are absolutely disastrous events, which have ruined any chance of medium term success imo.
The bottom line now is that our list is very average. We don't have a single STAR of the game. I fear that even Pendles is almost finished. Unless Elliott, De Goey, Hoskin-Elliott, Treloar, Moore and Grundy all take a huge leap up in performance, we will finish bottom 4. To save our season (even to win 10 games) four of those players need to become great players. On the basis of round one, I can't see that happening.  |
What we saw in round one was just more of the same.
Why have you changed your mind?
A week ago you said that we would finish top 5. |
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K
Joined: 09 Sep 2011
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| ^ I think a week ago Rudey was relying on Mase to kick 50 goals and now he does not believe that's going to happen. |
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RudeBoy
Joined: 28 Nov 2005
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| K wrote: | | ^ I think a week ago Rudey was relying on Mase to kick 50 goals and now he does not believe that's going to happen. |
Actually, I've consistently said that our fortunes this season depend on Cox, as we don't seem to have other key forward options. If Cox comes good and finds some form, mainly by beginning to hold his marks, then we can still have a successful season. If he proves to be a failed experiment, then we will finish closer to the bottom than the top of the ladder. It's fair to say that after watching Saturday night's embarrassing comedy routine provided by Cox, my confidence in him has certainly taken a battering.
The point of my OP, however, is that we should be in a much stronger position, but for some horrendous blunders made by our footy department and President in recent years.
As I said however, if our 'young guns' in Elliott, Treloar, Adams, De Goey, Grundy, Moore and Hoskin-Elliott can all perform to their potential then we can still be a top side. If not, then we are definitely phucked!  |
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K
Joined: 09 Sep 2011
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| RudeBoy wrote: | ...
The point of my OP, however, is that we should be in a much stronger position, but for some horrendous blunders made by our footy department and President in recent years.
... |
Yes, in the end, it really does go back to the President (who, with the board & admin, is ultimately responsible for the makeup of the footy department). |
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5 from the wing on debut
Joined: 27 May 2016
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| RudeBoy wrote: | | K wrote: | | ^ I think a week ago Rudey was relying on Mase to kick 50 goals and now he does not believe that's going to happen. |
Actually, I've consistently said that our fortunes this season depend on Cox, as we don't seem to have other key forward options. If Cox comes good and finds some form, mainly by beginning to hold his marks, then we can still have a successful season. If he proves to be a failed experiment, then we will finish closer to the bottom than the top of the ladder. It's fair to say that after watching Saturday night's embarrassing comedy routine provided by Cox, my confidence in him has certainly taken a battering.
The point of my OP, however, is that we should be in a much stronger position, but for some horrendous blunders made by our footy department and President in recent years.
As I said however, if our 'young guns' in Elliott, Treloar, Adams, De Goey, Grundy, Moore and Hoskin-Elliott can all perform to their potential then we can still be a top side. If not, then we are definitely phucked! |
I knew it would eventually happen.
You have finally joined the rest of us on the dark side. |
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RudeBoy
Joined: 28 Nov 2005
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| 5 from the wing on debut wrote: | | RudeBoy wrote: | | K wrote: | | ^ I think a week ago Rudey was relying on Mase to kick 50 goals and now he does not believe that's going to happen. |
Actually, I've consistently said that our fortunes this season depend on Cox, as we don't seem to have other key forward options. If Cox comes good and finds some form, mainly by beginning to hold his marks, then we can still have a successful season. If he proves to be a failed experiment, then we will finish closer to the bottom than the top of the ladder. It's fair to say that after watching Saturday night's embarrassing comedy routine provided by Cox, my confidence in him has certainly taken a battering.
The point of my OP, however, is that we should be in a much stronger position, but for some horrendous blunders made by our footy department and President in recent years.
As I said however, if our 'young guns' in Elliott, Treloar, Adams, De Goey, Grundy, Moore and Hoskin-Elliott can all perform to their potential then we can still be a top side. If not, then we are definitely phucked! |
I knew it would eventually happen.
You have finally joined the rest of us on the dark side. |
But I'm still standing with Bucks. He's been our rock of Gibraltar, working with an incompetent and at times completely dysfunctional football department.  |
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Magpietothemax 
magpietothemax
Joined: 28 Apr 2013
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| RudeBoy wrote: | [quote="5 from the wing on debut"
As I said however, if our 'young guns' in Elliott, Treloar, Adams, De Goey, Grundy, Moore and Hoskin-Elliott can all perform to their potential then we can still be a top side. If not, then we are definitely phucked! |
I knew it would eventually happen.
You have finally joined the rest of us on the dark side.[/quote]
But I'm still standing with Bucks. He's been our rock of Gibraltar, working with an incompetent and at times completely dysfunctional football department. [/quote]
How is Bucks separable from the recruitment of Mayne and Wells? There is no doubt in my mind whatseover that Bucks agreed with both.
It is impossible to defend the position that somehow Bucks is not a part of our current position, in every way.
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Free Julian Assange!!
Ice in the veins |
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foreigner 
Joined: 10 May 2004
Location: Brisbane, QLD
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| RudeBoy wrote: |
But I'm still standing with Bucks. He's been our rock of Gibraltar, working with an incompetent and at times completely dysfunctional football department. |
The team lacks confidence, they play like headless chicken when put under pressure. I'm worried about the new kids too as they will lose whatever confidence they have and fall into the rot of the current team culture.
We have seen glimpses of what the team can do, but those are few and far apart. At least, we should have seen some improvement or even consistency to show that this game plan is working. We can't adapt fast enough to a pressure situation to stop a rot, there's no one to show leadership when the odds are against us. A successful coach should be able to get the best out of his charges.
Tell me how it isn't the responsibility of the coach to inspire and instill confidence in the team, to play like at team and to play for each other - none of which are happening now.
Bar Grundy, show me one player who has developed under this coach. We can still hide our heads in the sand, but I can't see this getting any better.
As much as I love Buckley, I don't think he cuts it as a coach and someone who can inspire the players. We have heard things will change, it will get better, this year will be different - I can't see any evidence of this even into the 7th year.
At least give us something to look forward to, some hope, a player we can celebrate even in a loss - we have none of this.
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Pies Forever |
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AN_Inkling
Joined: 06 Oct 2007
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| die4pies wrote: | Once again go back to 2010.
How many rookie listed players were in that premiership winning team?
I'll help you:
Nick Maxwell - Captain of the 2010 premiership elevated in 2002
Heritier Lumumba - 2004
Alan Toovey - 2005
Sharrod Wellingham - 2006
Brent Macaffer - 2006
Jarryd Blair - 2008
One quarter of the 2010 premiership team were "undraftable" players and snuck onto the list through last chance back door.
So how important is the draft? Really. |
Extremely important.
Those players round out a team, but it was the introduction of Thomas, Pendlebury along with N.Brown, Reid, Didak, Ball, Jolly etc that made us a top team.
Top players from early in the draft are essential. Then when you get bargains at later pics (Maxwell, Obrien, Wellingham...), get lucky with father/sons (Cloke, Shaw) you have a great team.
Nowadays the absolute top end talent mostly comes from earlier in the draft. If you're able to source it from later or from academy or father/son picks, that's when you can quickly get ahead of the game. This used to be easier of course with the more generous systems of the past.
Losing out on Scharenberg and Freeman has been a massive blow to our development. A Bontempelli instead of Scharenberg would have transformed our team. A fit Freeman with his elite pace would have filled an enormous need.
They were the only top picks we had for a few years and really needed to be home runs. The fact they have not been has set us back years and badly affected the shape of our rebuild. It really is sufficient reason on its own for our period of stagnation, add in injuries to key players and we couldn't have done much better than we have.
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Well done boys! |
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ronrat
Joined: 22 May 2006
Location: Thailand
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FFS can we get over the Bont. For the millionth time. He was picked before we had a pick. Frankly, it is getting boring. We could have done with a line breaker like Ash McGrath. Wht didn't we get on the gear to get him.
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Annoying opposition supporters since 1967. |
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think positive 
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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| Magpietothemax wrote: | | RudeBoy wrote: | [quote="5 from the wing on debut"
As I said however, if our 'young guns' in Elliott, Treloar, Adams, De Goey, Grundy, Moore and Hoskin-Elliott can all perform to their potential then we can still be a top side. If not, then we are definitely phucked! |
I knew it would eventually happen.
You have finally joined the rest of us on the dark side. |
| Quote: | | But I'm still standing with Bucks. He's been our rock of Gibraltar, working with an incompetent and at times completely dysfunctional football department. |
| Quote: | How is Bucks separable from the recruitment of Mayne and Wells? There is no doubt in my mind whatseover that Bucks agreed with both.
It is impossible to defend the position that somehow Bucks is not a part of our current position, in every way. |
That’s what gets me, I don’t understand why everyone doesn’t see it this way. It’s not like someone throws a bunch of players at him and says that’s what ya got, win. He says what he wants/needs. And again again again, we bloody well needed a KPP! Both ends! And skills practice. We seem to have some players without natural ball awareness, (Pendles has it in spades) and also without natural skills (it’s beyond me why some are on the list in all honesty) and then the lack of height, the lack of muscle. When the ball bounced on Saturday my first remark was ‘**** look at the size of them compared to us!l
And yes I defend Blair endlessly, except that last game that was a shocker, but not just for him, but what he brings is desire, attitude, determination, never never quit. I’m not seeing that in some of our players. And that is what breaks my heart. something isnt right, the passion is not there, why did no one fight back to the bully tactics on Saturday? Not 1 player? Don’t tell me because they are professional. The very most professional athletes in the world occasionally loose their shit, Federer, Bolt, have all had their moments. Don’t $£$%^%%$ give me this vanilla shit. Show me you care. TRY. that’s why Blair plays this week.
I wouldn’t even care If Adams got 4 if he got some of his old mongrel back. It ain’t going to matter. All the shit over DeGoey and the clubs treatment of him! Yeah ok.
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You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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MatthewBoydFanClub
Joined: 12 Feb 2007
Location: Elwood
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| ronrat wrote: | | FFS can we get over the Bont. For the millionth time. He was picked before we had a pick. Frankly, it is getting boring. We could have done with a line breaker like Ash McGrath. Wht didn't we get on the gear to get him. |
McGrath wasn't available whereas Stephenson was and that's why we have one and not the other. The truth is that facts are more boring than inventing conspiracies to explain unpleasant realities about our fall down the ladder. Where I agree with you is that our current situation of losing to clubs we should beat, is totally unacceptable. Do we just sack everyone and start again, or should we analyse our deficiencies and work hard to fix them within the current setup. I prefer the latter approach. |
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Tanuki
Joined: 23 Apr 2016
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| Post subject: Re: What has plucked our club | |
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| RudeBoy wrote: | Putting the coaching position aside - as we all have firm positions on that issue - there are two factors which have ruined our chances of success imo.
1. The disastrous throwing away of highly prized draft picks on Scharenberg, Freeman and effectively Aish. We should have set ourselves up with two gun players, like we did the year we drafted Pendles and Daisy.
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Whilst I agree with most of what you say, and what you've posted on this site over the last 10 years that I've been perusing it, you're focus on, and obsession with Berg and Freeman is erratic.
They were both highly regarded and no one at the time questioned their respective draft positions, injuries alone have crueled them and us as a team. I'm sure most recruiters thought they were the equivalent of Pendles and Daisy in some way.
Anyway, pls excuse my spelling and grammar. Been a while since I've been on the forum and typing in here is hard. |
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Pies2016
Joined: 12 Sep 2014
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| Post subject: Re: What has plucked our club | |
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| Tanuki wrote: | | RudeBoy wrote: | Putting the coaching position aside - as we all have firm positions on that issue - there are two factors which have ruined our chances of success imo.
1. The disastrous throwing away of highly prized draft picks on Scharenberg, Freeman and effectively Aish. We should have set ourselves up with two gun players, like we did the year we drafted Pendles and Daisy.
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Whilst I agree with most of what you say, and what you've posted on this site over the last 10 years that I've been perusing it, you're focus on, and obsession with Berg and Freeman is erratic.
They were both highly regarded and no one at the time questioned their respective draft positions, injuries alone have crueled them and us as a team. I'm sure most recruiters thought they were the equivalent of Pendles and Daisy in some way.
Anyway, pls excuse my spelling and grammar. Been a while since I've been on the forum and typing in here is hard. |
I think that’s the key point. Nobody questioned their selection at the time.
Anyone who followed the draft knew the Bont was a mid field beast but he was gone by pick 6. Sharenberg was always going to be thereabouts.
He was never quick but his real strength was his versatility in the SA U18 comp. He played everywhere but in the ruck in his two years in the U18s nationals.
At pick nine, even the Dees said publicly it was a tough call between Salem and Freeman. We took Freeman next and no one questioned it.
It sucks that we will ( possibly ) look back and say it proved to be a waste of two top 10 picks but I don’t remember anyone saying that at the time of their selection.
As I have posted previously, my son played with Freeman at Dingley juniors and at the Dragons. He was explosively quick and to top it off, I don’t remember him missing a game through injury as a junior.
FWIW, I have seen lesser talented Dragon players than Freeman, go on to carve out decent AFL careers. In my opinion, he would have made it if not for that hamstring in his first preseason. |
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