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The ball tampering saga

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K 



Joined: 09 Sep 2011


PostPosted: Sun Mar 25, 2018 7:37 pm
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Yes, that was the first name that came to mind, actually. (I'm a bit biased towards TP.) Has he captained anything before, though?

By a process of elimination, there really wasn't anyone else.
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Donny Aries

Formerly known as MAGFAN8.


Joined: 04 Aug 2002
Location: Toonumbar NSW Australia

PostPosted: Sun Mar 25, 2018 7:49 pm
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George Bailey has captained Tasmania for so long, that I don't think Paine's captained much, at all, other than a stint at the helm with the BBL Hobart Hurricanes.
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Mugwump 



Joined: 28 Jul 2007
Location: Between London and Melbourne

PostPosted: Sun Mar 25, 2018 8:06 pm
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Things like this happen because of culture, and culture happens because of history. The history of Australian cricket has been sick, in my mind, for many many years. I think it goes back to the Chappells. And the culture is about Smith, but it’s about the board and the administration as well.

Cricket, for many years, was not like other games. It succeeded in believing, for a while, that it was a metaphor for a mode of life, and the idea that form mattered first, content second, and that any real success in life demanded graciousness as well as hard competition. It was often the place where boys learnt that tantrums were no way to react when life gives you out. Somewhere along the way, that changed, as our society coarsened and cheapened and came to believe that winning mattered more than dignity. In cricket, the Australians have for too long led the way in this - given a run for our money, of course, by others.

Anyway, Smith and everyone else who knew of the plot should resign and be suspended from the game for a good stretch. Then the ACB need to do the same. A year, perhaps, would do it. After that, there needs to be a resetting of what the Australian cricket team will stand for. Something like : “Games only make sense as devices for the discovery of skill and character. This is only possible if rules and ethics are at the heart of those who play them.”

Hopefully this may be a moment of renewal, not just another dive motel on the road to infamy.

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K 



Joined: 09 Sep 2011


PostPosted: Sun Mar 25, 2018 8:08 pm
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Actually, Bailey and Watson are two in the category of recently retired (or not, in Bailey's case!) Test batsmen who could have been flown in for T4 if there really were no captaincy options within the team, along with Adam V, who I mentioned in a previous post is already there for media purposes.

But TP seems fine to me. And if that had not been the case, they could also just have proceeded captain-less and have had all the bowlers decide by consultation with each other.
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K 



Joined: 09 Sep 2011


PostPosted: Sun Mar 25, 2018 8:16 pm
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Mugwump wrote:
Things like this happen because of culture, and culture happens because of history. The history of Australian cricket has been sick, in my mind, for many many years. I think it goes back to the Chappells. And the culture is about Smith, but it’s about the board and the administration as well.

...


The whole game, including the ICC and many of the national boards, is sick. This has not happened in a vacuum. I believe the disgraceful South African behaviour surrounding de Kock and the appeal of Rabada's punishment played a part in warping Smith's thinking. When you feel that justice has not been served, suddenly inner demons start whispering that the inexcusable is actually excusable and it's okay for you to 'even up' with your own choice of injustice.

Stokes and the ECB. Harbajan and the Indian Board. The trail goes on and on. How sad.
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Donny Aries

Formerly known as MAGFAN8.


Joined: 04 Aug 2002
Location: Toonumbar NSW Australia

PostPosted: Sun Mar 25, 2018 8:20 pm
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Scenarios:

1. The whole team, including reserve players and Lehmann stood down, at least for the 4th. Test.

2. Smith and Warner are obviously for the chop, as Smith admitted it was a decision of 'the leadership team'. Other than those 2, who else would be in the leadership team ? Lyon ? The rest are too inexperienced. So, possibly, Smith, Warner, Lehmann and one or two other players to be stood down. If Boof is found to be involved, he's gone, as Oz coach.

3. If the coach wasn't involved, the playing XI to cop it, leaving Handscomb and the reserve bowlers unscathed.

4. Just Smith, Warner and Bancroft to pay, with only those 3 to miss the 4th. Test. Future unknown.

There are more possibilities but it's becoming quite hypothetical to suggest further.

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K 



Joined: 09 Sep 2011


PostPosted: Sun Mar 25, 2018 8:34 pm
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We can only hope that the number of tainted players is small. Given that they've already pulled Renshaw et al. from the Shield teams, I think they should fly reinforcements in regardless of what their findings eventually are.
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Donny Aries

Formerly known as MAGFAN8.


Joined: 04 Aug 2002
Location: Toonumbar NSW Australia

PostPosted: Sun Mar 25, 2018 8:36 pm
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^ "Given that they've already pulled Renshaw et al. from the Shield teams,"

Renshaw's playing in the Shield final. Know something I don't, K ? Smile

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K 



Joined: 09 Sep 2011


PostPosted: Sun Mar 25, 2018 8:52 pm
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I just repeated what the (mainstream!) TV news said, without checking for confirmation from other sources. If they pulled them out mid-match, that would be astonishing (but when exactly does the fourth Test begin?). I'm curious now...
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Donny Aries

Formerly known as MAGFAN8.


Joined: 04 Aug 2002
Location: Toonumbar NSW Australia

PostPosted: Sun Mar 25, 2018 9:04 pm
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All I could find:

"It's understood no player from either side has been put on standby for the fourth Test side, but CA has pulled players out of domestic matches for the national side before, with playing conditions permitting substitutes on grounds of ‘national interest’.

Both Tasmania keeper Matthew Wade, who struck a gritty 108 across day two and three at Allan Border Field, and former Test opener Joe Burns said they hadn't even considered the possibility that players may be subbed out."

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Donny Aries

Formerly known as MAGFAN8.


Joined: 04 Aug 2002
Location: Toonumbar NSW Australia

PostPosted: Sun Mar 25, 2018 9:06 pm
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Fourth Test Wanderers, Johannesburg, March 30-April 3.

The SS final finishes on the 27th.

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K 



Joined: 09 Sep 2011


PostPosted: Sun Mar 25, 2018 9:12 pm
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Fairfax article with time stamp 4:58pm just says:
"But whether he or fellow opener Matt Renshaw (37) completes the match remains to be seen."
and
"With the fourth Test in Johannesburg beginning on Friday, if any players from the Shield final are to be flown over a decision will most likely need to be made before Tuesday, when the Shield final is due to finish."
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K 



Joined: 09 Sep 2011


PostPosted: Sun Mar 25, 2018 9:32 pm
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"It is believed that responsibility will rest with Smith and vice-captain David Warner, as well as Bancroft, the 25-year-old West Australian opening batsman who did the deed and was charged with ball tampering by the International Cricket Council.
Others seasoned members of the team who have been involved in the team’s leadership group at different stages – Mitchell Starc, Josh Hazlewood and Nathan Lyon – have privately denied any involvement in the plot and there has been dissatisfaction that they were effectively thrown under the bus and unfairly tainted." (Chris Barrett, 8:11pm)
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swoop42 Virgo

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Joined: 02 Aug 2008
Location: The 22

PostPosted: Sun Mar 25, 2018 10:29 pm
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I think people would be pretty naive to believe ball tampering in one form or another hasn't been attempted for decades from all sides.

Whether it be deliberately throwing the ball short of the keeper into a hard pitch, an "accidental" treading on the ball by shoe spikes, picking of the seam or having some form of lubricant placed in the hair or on the body that can aid the shining of one side.

I mean how many times over the years have we seen an Australian side on tour in England or Pakistan as an example succumb to generous amounts of swing from the home side.

Is that all down to atmospheric conditions or something more sinister?

While I don't condone what Australia has done it's not the first time ball tampering has been suspected and allegations made.

Why Australia chose to do it at all is shameful but why they did it so blatantly is mind boggling dumb.

Personally I believe a suspension and fine is adequate as the public shaming they'll have to carry for the rest of their careers will be the real penalty imposed.

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Last edited by swoop42 on Sun Mar 25, 2018 11:19 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Jezza Taurus



Joined: 06 Sep 2010
Location: Ponsford End

PostPosted: Sun Mar 25, 2018 11:10 pm
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The most shameful day in Australia's cricket history since the underarm incident with Trevor Chappell back in 1981.

It's a shame because I thought Smith was well on the way to being regarded as one of the all time greats of Australian cricket, but this fiasco will always be associated with him unfortunately and there's no way around that.

Seems as though there's a major power imbalance between the leadership group and players like Bancroft who are still going through the process of establishing their credentials at the top level. I wonder how complicit Bancroft was in this whole situation, so it raises further questions to his overall involvement and whether he pressured into doing this act or not.

I agree with Mugwump that a major culture shift has to take place if Australian cricket is to get it's act together, because our reputation has taken a battering amongst the cricketing fraternity all across the world.

A good first step that Smith and Warner have stepped down from their leadership positions. However, what comes next remains to be seen and the hypotheticals that Donny posted earlier raises more questions than answers so it will be interesting to see how it unfolds.

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