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Cruisinwithdids
Joined: 21 Sep 2016
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| Post subject: Re: The dark stain of the succession cannot be erased by rub |  |
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| Cam wrote: | Eddie & Co sacrificed a generation of winning upon the altar of the succession. We have never recovered. It is the defining mark of the post 2011 regime. It has torn at the very fabric of our support, of our black and white army. We are divided and downcast. Small things encourage us, but largely we are cynical. It feels like groundhog day.
When Nathan goes, so does the President, they both need to own this, and it shall be the blood of their sacrifice that will cleanse us. Enough is enough. |
Cam, I see your posts and I respect you. And I know you're always as positive as you can be and bring me around sometimes. But the lows of tonight that I also feel tells me that MCGuire needs to go - and needs to step aside right now. Buckley is a failed coach given a lifeline by a silly, parochial mate. It's over for this regime. The quicker the better |
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Cam 
Nick's BB Member #166
Joined: 10 May 2002
Location: Springvale
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I know Dids. I've hoped n hoped. We need a clean start. Eddie will still be our Kennett, won't be able to avoid that...but we need a low key pres to follow n a new footy direction. It kills me to say that, I love both these leaders...but it isn't working and it hasn't worked.
_________________
Get back on top.
Last edited by Cam on Sun Mar 25, 2018 12:05 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Doc63
Joined: 06 May 2004
Location: Newport
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| Post subject: Re: The dark stain of the succession cannot be erased by rub | |
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| Cruisinwithdids wrote: | | Cam wrote: | Eddie & Co sacrificed a generation of winning upon the altar of the succession. We have never recovered. It is the defining mark of the post 2011 regime. It has torn at the very fabric of our support, of our black and white army. We are divided and downcast. Small things encourage us, but largely we are cynical. It feels like groundhog day.
When Nathan goes, so does the President, they both need to own this, and it shall be the blood of their sacrifice that will cleanse us. Enough is enough. |
Cam, I see your posts and I respect you. And I know you're always as positive as you can be and bring me around sometimes. But the lows of tonight that I also feel tells me that MCGuire needs to go - and needs to step aside right now. Buckley is a failed coach given a lifeline by a silly, parochial mate. It's over for this regime. The quicker the better |
Cant see either of them doing the right thing.
Only 43 games to go.
_________________
I hold a cup of wisdom, but there is nothing within. |
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duggieboy
Joined: 12 Jan 2005
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From what I saw on the box, looks about the same as last year.
I hate to say it but can only agree with Cam's post here. |
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1970
www.facebook.com/groups/knightsofabbotsford
Joined: 16 Mar 2009
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Big Dan
Joined: 12 Jun 2006
Location: The Outside World
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At the start, I thought the original succession plan is what we needed.
Last couple of years, I found myself starting to wonder if it was a mistake.
End of 2017, and now start of 2018 I firmly believe that had MM stayed, and then been replaced by an experienced coach this side would be in a far better place.
Going to be a long season........ |
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Jamesy
Joined: 28 Jan 2017
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| Cam wrote: | | I know Dids. I've hoped n hoped. We need a clean start. Eddie will still be our Kennett, won't be able to avoid that...but we need a low key pres to follow n a new footy direction. It kills me to say that, I love both these leaders...but it isn't working and it hasn't worked. |
In a nutshell.
Go the Pies! |
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PyreneesPie 
PyreneesPie
Joined: 22 Aug 2014
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| Cam wrote: | | I know Dids. I've hoped n hoped. We need a clean start. Eddie will still be our Kennett, won't be able to avoid that...but we need a low key pres to follow n a new footy direction. It kills me to say that, I love both these leaders...but it isn't working and it hasn't worked. |
Thank you Cam. You've managed to express the doubt that we all feel without resorting to character assassination. I don't understand why others can't say "Hey, they gave it their best shot, but it looks like it hasn't worked". Instead they resort to personally rubbishing two greats of our club, casting all sorts of vitriol in their direction. I just don't understand that. Why is it necessary?
Anyway, it could well be over, but we are just basing our suspicions on the first game of the season. We could yet still build some momentum.. On paper, it was a weaker side that was in tonight, although I grant that they did not play with the usual G and D.
This whole season will tell I believe and if we don't improve, although it will break my heart to see Eddie and Bucks leave, I'll agree that it's time for change. |
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Cam
Nick's BB Member #166
Joined: 10 May 2002
Location: Springvale
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We could just as well come out and beat the Giants... then get rolled by the Blues. That's the kind of situation we have.
_________________
Get back on top. |
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Redlight
Joined: 11 Jun 2009
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This whole thread is revisionist nonsense. It presumes that we're at we're at now because of the succession plan.
Bulltish.
The truth is that Malthouse was cooked, even his manager at the time was all in favour of the plan. After reneging, Malthouse went on to prove that he was done as a senior coach in a glorious stint at Carlton - have you forgotten that?
When Buckley was appointed he was the hottest property on the coaching market. It made sense to keep him at the Pies. Has it worked out? Well, it really doesn't look like it. Has the decision about Buckley ever been cut and dried? No. There's been far too many confounding factors to make a clear judgement easy.
This year is the litmus test.
If Buckley fails this year he should go. However McGuire should stay. His decision regarding the handover was well-based and logical. If Malthouse wasn't such a bitter old f$%^er it could've worked as per Roos at Sydney and Melbourne.
I understand the strong negative feelings about Buckley. The crap about McGuire is exactly that. Crap. |
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Cam
Nick's BB Member #166
Joined: 10 May 2002
Location: Springvale
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They should have backed themselves. Given Malthouse another year, let Buckley go to North for 5 years. Or Buckley should have remained assistant for another year and let MMs brigade take its natural course towards ending. IF he could coach then he could have come back and been the messiah, provided the interim coach after MMs poor health intervened was no good either.
But they didn't, they rushed in with a great idea at the time, and it didn't and hasn't worked. That's not revisionist. It had its chance. History is written to reflect what happened, not what we hoped would happen.
Ed has been everything to Collingwood, but 20 years is a long time as the person at the top. And as the Footy Show illuminates... its not the same place now as when he started. Fresh start.
_________________
Get back on top. |
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Cam
Nick's BB Member #166
Joined: 10 May 2002
Location: Springvale
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You can't always make things how you want them to be. They are what they are, it is what it is. And unless this whole thing somehow turns around, more and more people will not show up, silently now, with less fight than before.
_________________
Get back on top. |
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themonk
Joined: 02 Mar 2004
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We are a passionate but simple club.
In 1990 we finally won a flag, a short time later we sacked the coach and rushed in a former capatain in fear that he may coach elsewhere. As a club we steadily declined.
In 2010 we won another flag, this time we wasted no time in pushing out another coach to again block any move a former captain had to coach elsewhere.
Somthing about insanity, doing the same thing and expecting a different result?
It's as if the club is run by public servants, ready to appease the romantic appettite of the masses and ignore the basic objective of why we are in this game, success. |
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Redlight
Joined: 11 Jun 2009
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| Cam wrote: | They should have backed themselves. Given Malthouse another year, let Buckley go to North for 5 years. Or Buckley should have remained assistant for another year and let MMs brigade take its natural course towards ending. IF he could coach then he could have come back and been the messiah, provided the interim coach after MMs poor health intervened was no good either.
But they didn't, they rushed in with a great idea at the time, and it didn't and hasn't worked. That's not revisionist. It had its chance. History is written to reflect what happened, not what we hoped would happen.
Ed has been everything to Collingwood, but 20 years is a long time as the person at the top. And as the Footy Show illuminates... its not the same place now as when he started. Fresh start. |
It is revisionist in the sense that it ignores much of what actually happened at the time. Malthouse had a further crack at coaching and failed abjectly. That absolutely justifies Ed's decision. Post the handover Ball, Reid, Toovey, McCaffer, Krakoeur, Johnson, Shaw, Tarrant, Jolly, Thomas and Didak missed significant amounts of footy, then many left/retired which has muddied the waters regarding Buckley's abilities as a coach.
Your initial post indicates that everything that has gone wrong is due to the succession plan. It's nonsense. The conclusion you've drawn is that Buckley and McGuire have to go. That's also nonsense.
If 2018 is a failure, then Buckley is almost certainly history. The connection to McGuire is tenuous at best. If we're to replace McGuire then we'll need to see a replacement that is demonstrably better.
Good luck with that. |
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Cam
Nick's BB Member #166
Joined: 10 May 2002
Location: Springvale
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No, i never said it was due to the succession plan. I said the succession plan had failed. I didn't list any of the myriad of reasons why. Just that it had. Am I wrong? It could have worked, but it didn't and hasn't.
And no, we don't need to see a replacement that is demonstrably better, in fact, it was a gamble when Ed first got the job. [Mind you, I did hear a story about that once, but I won't elaborate] We just need a clean sweep, that's my opinion on how these things normally play out after someone has been at the top so long. Normally 10 years is enough.
Given Walsh, Balme, Swann, Pert, Allan etc etc there are many reasons that I am not going to list. There has been many great achievements, but you can go on one or two terms too many.
The Ws and Ls are what history records.
_________________
Get back on top. |
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