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Where’s the improvement going to come from this year?

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qldmagpie67 



Joined: 18 Dec 2008


PostPosted: Sun Mar 04, 2018 9:50 pm
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[quote="RudeBoy"]We already have a bunch of A grade players in Pendles, Grundy, Treloar, Adams, Sidey, Elliott and Howe, as well as a group of players expected to step up to the next level in De Doey, Maynard, Hoskin-Elliott, Langdon and Moore. In addition, we have a group of promising youngsters who still need a couple of years to develop in Daicos, Kirby, McLarty, Murphy and Stephenson.

Question marks still remain over Aish and Scharenberg, but at least they both enter this season in the best shape they've had at the Pies.

As far as I can see the only 'list cloggers' we have now are Blair (who has given us great service), Smith, Oxley and Mayne.

So imo, we have reason to be optimistic about the year and years ahead. However, I actually think that our success in 2018 depends crucially on the performance of one player.......Mason Cox. If he can forge a good partnership with Grundy and contribute 2-3 goals each week, then we can finish in the top 5. However, if he fails to more consistently hold his marks, and struggles to make an impact on the scoreboard, then we could fall down the ladder as low as 16th. It's that simple. By deciding to move Moore to defence, we have put all our eggs in one basket imo. If Cox delivers, then so too will Collingwood, but if he flops, then so too will our team. So I'm not sure whether to be excited or terrified at what awaits us this year. One thing's for certain....we can't afford to commence the season without De Goey in our team.[/quote]

All due respect Rude but Pendles is our only true A grader week in week out.
Others have good games or patches in games and we praise them through the roof and build them up.
Truth is we find ourselves in a decent size hole (performance wise) due to this very fact.
We have to many players who look good in patches but more often than not its doesn't lead to consistent performances every quarter of every game.
We have about 12 players who if they can reach a high level of consistency makes us a much better team.
Trelaor is one who's best is damn good but he has so many brain fart's with disposal it undoes all the good work. Sidey is another who can make the impossible seem easy but then miss a kick to a open team mate 15m away.
There not on there own but it highlights why we can go form world beaters to wooden spoon favourites in a quarter.
Until we get consistent performances from at least 16 players every week across 4 quarters we are going to keep seeing these same results we have seen over the past 4 years.
Improvement must come from all players or we are simply treading water again.
It was only a trial game and yes we were missing a fair chunk of our best 22 but that shouldn't stop those selected from having a real crack at every contest.
If the coach continues to play players out of position or not play them in a position that suits there skill set then we are well and truly up that river in the barb wire canoe
Finally the biggest issue I see is we have to many players with slight frames who are to easily pushed out of contests or muscled out
From there we have lost the contest and are on the back foot until the next stoppage when we get to reset but most of the time that is after a opposition goal.
I hope I'm wrong but from the training reports from the ever reliable Warburton Lad and the training day I saw it it appears nothing we worked on in the preseason has sunk into the playing group.
We get to the bye and our finals chances are gone by then I would expect the coach to stand down and the club to really chase a big name coach who can maximise the talent within the squad
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Seth 



Joined: 15 Nov 2000
Location: In the study!

PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2018 6:05 am
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Interesting to see GC Suns. There is some improvement there already under new coach. We've missed an opportunity there I feel. The jungle drums will be beating by round 10. 2018 aint gonna be pretty.
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K 



Joined: 09 Sep 2011


PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2018 7:09 am
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qldmagpie67 wrote:
...
All due respect Rude but Pendles is our only true A grader week in week out.
Others have good games or patches in games and we praise them through the roof and build them up.
Truth is we find ourselves in a decent size hole (performance wise) due to this very fact.
...

Let us hope he still is an A-grader week in week out. 30 is not so old, right?
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Flashman 



Joined: 11 Aug 2007


PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2018 9:54 am
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5 from the wing on debut wrote:
Skids wrote:
5 from the wing on debut wrote:
RudeBoy wrote:
We already have a bunch of A grade players in Pendles, Grundy, Treloar, Adams, Sidey, Elliott and Howe, as well as a group of players expected to step up to the next level in De Doey, Maynard, Hoskin-Elliott, Langdon and Moore. In addition, we have a group of promising youngsters who still need a couple of years to develop in Daicos, Kirby, McLarty, Murphy and Stephenson.

Question marks still remain over Aish and Scharenberg, but at least they both enter this season in the best shape they've had at the Pies.

As far as I can see the only 'list cloggers' we have now are Blair (who has given us great service), Smith, Oxley and Mayne.

So imo, we have reason to be optimistic about the year and years ahead. However, I actually think that our success in 2018 depends crucially on the performance of one player.......Mason Cox. If he can forge a good partnership with Grundy and contribute 2-3 goals each week, then we can finish in the top 5. However, if he fails to more consistently hold his marks, and struggles to make an impact on the scoreboard, then we could fall down the ladder as low as 16th. It's that simple. By deciding to move Moore to defence, we have put all our eggs in one basket imo. If Cox delivers, then so too will Collingwood, but if he flops, then so too will our team. So I'm not sure whether to be excited or terrified at what awaits us this year. One thing's for certain....we can't afford to commence the season without De Goey in our team.


I am quite analytic when I watch us play. I try not to let emotion cloud my judgement. I would be ecstatic if we finished top 5 but I can't see it happening though. If we scrape into the 8 it will be a great result with the list and coach we have and will probably mean that our better players have managed plenty of games. We don't have much depth compared to many other clubs so injuries will hit us hard.

Even though it was only a practice match I didn't like what I saw from two of our most senior players, Pendles and Reid. Neither have ever been quick, but they both looked very slow. In the last few games Pendles played last year he was caught with the ball more than I had ever seen him caught before and it happened again against the Giants. They are super important for us and I really hope they can turn it around.

I was otherwise very disappointed by what I saw against the Giants. It wasn't the result as such, but the way that they went about it. The ball movement and skills were not at an acceptable AFL level. To me, that's a big concern, and the fact that it was only a practice match was irrelevant.


In our only pre-season match in 1990, The filth beat us by 27 points.

They finished the season 8th... we won the Flag.

There's your pre-season game relevance right there Wink


Can you please explain to me how, when the real season commences, and when the pressure and speed increases, that Phillips, Crisp and Adams will actually be able to kick the ball to a team mate, when they are unable to do it in a practice match?

Also the totally non-functioning forward line that has been a serious problem for the past 4 seasons, looked to be functioning worse than ever yet again in the JLT game.

We were a few personnel down but surely the coaches have designed a system and structures that make a reliance on a couple of players not necessary factoring in injuries, poor form etc. That definitely wasn't evident on Thursday night, it was the old move the ball around slowly up field and bomb it long into a heavily congested forward line for it to be rebounded out and sling-shotted back up the other end to an open opposition forward line.

Maybe we were playing a bit of poker with GWS and not showing our hand the other night but it is of definite concern once again.
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Skids Cancer



Joined: 11 Sep 2007
Location: Joined 3/6/02 ... aka Assassin member #175

PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2018 11:57 am
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I think you hit the nail on the head in your last sentence Flashman (although I didn't see the game).

I remember one year in u16's, we had everyones measure except for one side. They went the season undefeated.
We practiced a set play at trainning late in the season, we were gaurenteed to play in the second semi against this mob, but our coach didn't want us to use the play in that game, we didn't and they beat us by 40 odd points.
We smashed Swan View in the prelim and met Cloverdale for the 4th time that season in the GF.
Long story short, we executed our game plan to perfection and beat them by 9 points in the GF Cool

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5 from the wing on debut 



Joined: 27 May 2016


PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2018 12:13 pm
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Skids wrote:
I think you hit the nail on the head in your last sentence Flashman (although I didn't see the game).

I remember one year in u16's, we had everyones measure except for one side. They went the season undefeated.
We practiced a set play at trainning late in the season, we were gaurenteed to play in the second semi against this mob, but our coach didn't want us to use the play in that game, we didn't and they beat us by 40 odd points.
We smashed Swan View in the prelim and met Cloverdale for the 4th time that season in the GF.
Long story short, we executed our game plan to perfection and beat them by 9 points in the GF Cool


I see what you are getting at.

It's a clever ruse by Buckley to tell his players to continually turn the ball over for 4 years so that the first time we play GWS in the 2018 season we can surprise them with our elite kicking skills.

Now that you have mentioned it, it's so obvious I don't know why I didn't see it coming.
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69 years a MAGPIE Libra



Joined: 12 Oct 2015
Location: Hong Kong

PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2018 12:28 pm
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I have optimism for the season, said that many times previously on many threads. JLT was not good but who was missing - Treloar, Howe, Moore, Wells, JDG, Aishe, Elliott, Fas, Shaz at least. GWS missing a few but not as many. Saints basically full strength get beat up, Dons strong side get beat up, others the same. Cats missing 7 top players and the headlines are "wekened cats". Us, we get verbally belted by everyone. Lets look again after the doggies this week.
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Skids Cancer



Joined: 11 Sep 2007
Location: Joined 3/6/02 ... aka Assassin member #175

PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2018 12:37 pm
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5 from the wing on debut wrote:
Skids wrote:
I think you hit the nail on the head in your last sentence Flashman (although I didn't see the game).

I remember one year in u16's, we had everyones measure except for one side. They went the season undefeated.
We practiced a set play at trainning late in the season, we were gaurenteed to play in the second semi against this mob, but our coach didn't want us to use the play in that game, we didn't and they beat us by 40 odd points.
We smashed Swan View in the prelim and met Cloverdale for the 4th time that season in the GF.
Long story short, we executed our game plan to perfection and beat them by 9 points in the GF Cool


I see what you are getting at.

It's a clever ruse by Buckley to tell his players to continually turn the ball over for 4 years so that the first time we play GWS in the 2018 season we can surprise them with our elite kicking skills.

Now that you have mentioned it, it's so obvious I don't know why I didn't see it coming.


Sad statement really Arrow .... you don't see what I'm getting at at all, your wit (or lack of) is amazing. Wink

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5 from the wing on debut 



Joined: 27 May 2016


PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2018 1:36 pm
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Skids wrote:
5 from the wing on debut wrote:
Skids wrote:
I think you hit the nail on the head in your last sentence Flashman (although I didn't see the game).

I remember one year in u16's, we had everyones measure except for one side. They went the season undefeated.
We practiced a set play at trainning late in the season, we were gaurenteed to play in the second semi against this mob, but our coach didn't want us to use the play in that game, we didn't and they beat us by 40 odd points.
We smashed Swan View in the prelim and met Cloverdale for the 4th time that season in the GF.
Long story short, we executed our game plan to perfection and beat them by 9 points in the GF Cool


I see what you are getting at.

It's a clever ruse by Buckley to tell his players to continually turn the ball over for 4 years so that the first time we play GWS in the 2018 season we can surprise them with our elite kicking skills.

Now that you have mentioned it, it's so obvious I don't know why I didn't see it coming.


Sad statement really Arrow .... you don't see what I'm getting at at all, your wit (or lack of) is amazing. Wink


No, I understood what you said, even before you said it, because other posters had already made that point about 20 times. You must not have seen them.

Everyone understands that it was a practice match and the real stuff will be played differently with more intensity and different set ups. It's the same in every sport, just look at Warne/Hick the first series they were opposed to each other for one of the most prominent examples. Hick hammered him in the county game, Warne let him be selected for the first test then destroyed him.

A different game plan won't make our team kick better, or make better decisions though. Warne was hiding his skill. Our players weren't.
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3rd degree Aries



Joined: 22 Jun 2004
Location: John Wren's tote

PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2018 2:43 pm
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69 years a MAGPIE wrote:
I have optimism for the season, said that many times previously on many threads. JLT was not good but who was missing - Treloar, Howe, Moore, Wells, JDG, Aishe, Elliott, Fas, Shaz at least. GWS missing a few but not as many. Saints basically full strength get beat up, Dons strong side get beat up, others the same. Cats missing 7 top players and the headlines are "wekened cats". Us, we get verbally belted by everyone. Lets look again after the doggies this week.



I agree with that , and our Womens team nearly roll the top side and we are looked upon has having no finals hope? Wink there is one final in women's footy the GF , however the filth's side have lost 3 in a row but barely mentioned.

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RudeBoy 



Joined: 28 Nov 2005


PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 10:20 am
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I think improvement will come this year from an overall growth in confidence and experience. The players who I especially think will step up include Grundy, Aish, Maynard, Moore, De Goey, Langdon, Elliott, Hoskin-Elliott as well as our new boy in Stephenson.
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npalm 



Joined: 01 May 2005


PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 12:17 pm
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^^ The greatest potential area for this current list to improve its performance is confidence. Both individual and team confidence.
If we can have a bit of luck early in the season and get off to a 4-2 start in the first 6 games then I can see us building some self-belief and going on to rack up 12-14 wins for the season.

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piedys Taurus

Heeeeeeere's Dyso!!!


Joined: 04 Sep 2003
Location: Burleigh Heads, Gold Coast

PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2018 4:36 pm
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Pies4shaw wrote:
I think the improvement this year is going to come from Carlton.


With that many former first round picks assembled on their list, surely improvement will have to follow eventually!?

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swoop42 Virgo

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Joined: 02 Aug 2008
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2018 9:40 pm
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You'd have thought Broomhead might have been well suited for a role as that small quick tackling forward that is all the rage in the modern game.

Unfortunately whether it be non development in that role, talent level or his still slight frame he hasn't made it his own.

Given he was taken in the same draft as Grundy if he can't become a regular in the 22 this year hard to see why he'll be retained.

Actually we have a real need for some quality crumbers or high intensity small forwards in our side but looking at our list you wonder if anyone can become these.

Elliott - Our best forward currently and certainly owns a position based on goal kicking talent alone. Is quick and athletic but is much more a marking small forward than a natural crumber. His career tackle average of 3.16 is reasonable. For comparison Betts 3.16, Fantasia 3.06, Greene 3.16, Rioli 4.57, Gray 3.33

Fasolo - Kicked 29.29 last season which is the best of his career. However like Elliott is much more a mark and goal player so offers no real point of difference. Not as quick or athletic as Jamie but he's crafty and uses what he has well. His career tackle average is less at 2.52.

Blair - Spent more time as a midfielder at the beginning of his career and kicked a career high 26 goals in 2011 and gathered 455 disposals in 2012. His first 3 seasons were actually good. With the game getting increasingly quicker and bigger midfielders more in vogue Blair saw his midfield time decrease in recent seasons so his possession count from 2013 to 2016 was around the 100 mark less than his career high of 2012. His goal kicking output from 2012 to 2016 has largely been maintained around the 15 goal range. 2017 was certainly his worst result in terms of disposal average. His tackle count average for a small forward is good at 4.70 but lack of speed means a lot would be gained in congestion and not when the opposition is on the offensive. Blair is what he is and no one ever questions his endeavour but he's really a natural midfielder trying to be forward.

C. Brown and J. Daicos - Both 178cm, lightly framed at present and they possess only standard leg speed. To similar? When you're undersized and not genuinely quick you have to be pretty special in a lot of other areas. If genes count for anything though then Daicos and Brown stand a very good chance. To early to make any calls about them but they'll need to rely on tenacity and game smarts rather than outstanding athletic ability. If we're looking for quick tackling machines up forward then it's hard to see them filling that role though both could yet be useful at the foot of Cox and Reid.

Kirby - Has the speed, the power and the balance between ground and marking ability we are looking for. Unfortunately has poor endurance and how much that holds him back from adding to his 1 game AFL career is the question. He's exactly a type we need more of.

Aish - Highly rated junior talent who since his excellent first season hasn't really progressed. While not quick has reasonable running capacity but to often IMO can't find enough clear space on the outside. Is the faster pace of the AFL the difference between the young Aish of the SANFL carving it up and now? Aish has neat foot skills but it's his marking that has been the one highlight of his time at Collingwood so giving him a role across half forward is worth a try though he'll be yet another mark and goal type.

Sidebottom - He is easily the most natural forward crumber we have but unfortunately he's also one of our best midfielders. One of the smartest footballers around and could be a 50 goal a season forward if we wished him to be. He'll remain a midfielder first but I do hope we see him spending more time forward this season and as the years progress.

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E 



Joined: 05 May 2010


PostPosted: Thu Mar 29, 2018 1:45 am
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what if there isn't a place where improvement will come from?
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