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Proof that draft lottery wont solve tanking issue!

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E 



Joined: 05 May 2010


PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2018 4:48 am
Post subject: Proof that draft lottery wont solve tanking issue!Reply with quote

Proof that a lottery system doesn't guaranty no tanking. NBA just broadened the lottery so that last place in the regular season guarantees you only no worse than 6th pick (there are 5 lottery selections, up from 4 previously).

you need an owner who is so rich that he doesn't care if he gets fined for admitting his team tanks!

https://www.si.com/nba/2018/02/26/nba-draft-2018-tanking-lottery-odds-bulls-knicks-lakers-kings

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BucksIsFutureCoach 



Joined: 12 Feb 2007


PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2018 6:56 am
Post subject: Reply with quote

Best idea came from within the AFL a couple of years ago. Something like, with 5 rounds to go they redo the draw with the bottom 6 sides playing each other. The side that wins the most of those games gets the prized number one draft pick working down to the sixth poorly performed team during those games.
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Craigmac 



Joined: 22 May 2017


PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2018 8:00 am
Post subject: Draft positionReply with quote

Another option is all clubs play each other in the first 17 rounds and the draft position is based on the ladder at that point, regardless of what happens in the last 5 rounds.

More clubs still live for the top 8 at that point which minimises tanking. Then teams may battle harder not to finish last.
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5 from the wing on debut 



Joined: 27 May 2016


PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2018 8:15 am
Post subject: Reply with quote

BucksIsFutureCoach wrote:
Best idea came from within the AFL a couple of years ago. Something like, with 5 rounds to go they redo the draw with the bottom 6 sides playing each other. The side that wins the most of those games gets the prized number one draft pick working down to the sixth poorly performed team during those games.


How will it help the competition if the 13th best team receives pick 1 and the basket case 18th team receives pick 6?

How will that stop teams that believe they may miss the 8 from dropping a few games to ensure that they commence the last 5 rounds in the bottom 6?

There is no perfect solution as whatever the rules are there will be a way to manipulate it.
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stui magpie 

suge min pikk


Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: Where ever i go, there I am

PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2018 9:18 am
Post subject: Reply with quote

It's an interesting perception (myth?) that a high draft pick can be the saviour of a team.

In practice, it doesn't play out. When was the last time a premiership team got the flag by bottoming out and scoring high draft picks?

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WhyPhilWhy? 



Joined: 09 Oct 2001
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2018 10:04 am
Post subject: Reply with quote

Its a fair point - which high draft picks particularly contributed to the Grand Final wins of the Dogs or the Tiges?
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barrackers 



Joined: 20 Apr 2017


PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2018 11:43 am
Post subject: Reply with quote

Nothing will eliminate the chance tanking completely however the best way to reduce tanking is to determine draft picks using results from more than one season. Without much thought Id use the past 3 seasons.
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Pebbles Rocks 



Joined: 28 Sep 2008
Location: Collingwood

PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2018 11:46 am
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The tanking conversation is about the most boring one that gets rolled out each year and yes i am aware of the irony that I am commenting on it.

Firstly, there is 30 teams in the NBA not 18.
Secondly (and more importantly), the taking debate was redundant when the AFL removed automatic rights to priority picks. Everyone knows there is little difference between picks 1-5 in the wash up. However a second pick in the top 1 or 2 is massive. That as essentially gone.

Can we pleeeeease stop waffling about tanking. It aint happening.

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Pebbles Rocks 



Joined: 28 Sep 2008
Location: Collingwood

PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2018 11:46 am
Post subject: Reply with quote

double post
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E 



Joined: 05 May 2010


PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2018 12:38 pm
Post subject: Reply with quote

stui magpie wrote:
It's an interesting perception (myth?) that a high draft pick can be the saviour of a team.

In practice, it doesn't play out. When was the last time a premiership team got the flag by bottoming out and scoring high draft picks?


Didn't Hawthorn tank one year and snag Lance Franklin, Jarryd Roughead and Jordan Lewis from the first 7 picks in the draft and then win a flag 3 years later? those three players turned out to be quite helpful in that effort i would have thought. especially since they did it in a year where there were only about 8 quality players in the entire draft (and one of them was a father/son)!

If Melbourne become as good as they appear capable of becoming, i'm pretty sure the top draft picks will help.

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Last edited by E on Tue Feb 27, 2018 12:53 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Woods Of Ypres 



Joined: 27 May 2003
Location: Yugoslavia

PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2018 12:42 pm
Post subject: Reply with quote

you cant compare NBA to AFL

AFL you have 18 players on field
NBA 5 players

A young gun NBA player can be the cornerstone piece for many years.

NBA teams have more incentive to tank than AFL teams

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Geek 



Joined: 06 Apr 2006
Location: Glenroy

PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2018 12:47 pm
Post subject: Reply with quote

WhyPhilWhy? wrote:
Its a fair point - which high draft picks particularly contributed to the Grand Final wins of the Dogs or the Tiges?


I don't remember too much of the games but their squads contained:

Bont (Pick 4), Macrae (6), Stringer (5) and Boyd (1). A couple of them did well but it was also down on the day to JJ, Picken and Dahlhaus who were all rookies.

The bulldogs also scored Libba, Wallis (injured) and Hunter incredibly cheaply through father son. Prior to their flag they finished: 15th (2012), 15th and 14th before coming back into the 8 in 2015. They were a clear example of hwat you can achieve when you go to the well, don't **** around between 9th and 12th and proceed to nail every pick. Even when they lost Ward, they made up for it by drafting Jack Macrae.

On grand final day, those top ranked players may have been a bit hit and miss, but their finals series would have been huge.

Richmond are an interesting one. Straight off the bat, I can see Vlaustin, Cockchin and Chopsticks from the top 5. Vlaustin opened terribly on the day but worked his way back into it and Cockchin is a deadset liar for saying all those years ago that he was going to retire if Richmond won the flag. Dusty was huge all year and through September.

They also had some former top 10s in Caddy and Prestia but didn't have to tank for them as they were traded in.

They won their flag after the following run: 12th (2012), 5th, 8th, 5th, 13th. So clearly they didn't get their by tanking. Looking closer now I see that even Vlaustin went at #9 anyway.

Don't get me wrong. I'm a fan of tanking to a degree. You need that top echelon of talent. We might have had 7 rookies in our premiership team, but we also had Dids, Thomas, Pendles, Ball and even old Leroy as top 5 picks.

My feeling is that if you are going to the well, go hard. Hit it for 3 years and get the **** out.
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E 



Joined: 05 May 2010


PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2018 12:48 pm
Post subject: Reply with quote

Pebbles Rocks wrote:
The tanking conversation is about the most boring one that gets rolled out each year and yes i am aware of the irony that I am commenting on it.

Firstly, there is 30 teams in the NBA not 18.
Secondly (and more importantly), the taking debate was redundant when the AFL removed automatic rights to priority picks. Everyone knows there is little difference between picks 1-5 in the wash up. However a second pick in the top 1 or 2 is massive. That as essentially gone.

Can we pleeeeease stop waffling about tanking. It aint happening.


You make one great point and 1 stupid point.

The great point is that tanking really isnt relevant anymore now that priority picks are gone.

The stupid point is suggesting that its the fact that there are 30 teams is the reason why its more important in the NBA. The real reason is that there are only 5 players on the court at any time, and if you can draft a star in one of the positions, you literally are half way to building a strong team. its that much of a game changer. case in point, LeBron James can be paired with any 12 players you like and his team is going to be good.

by contrast, they don't really worry about tanking in the NBFL and there are 32 teams in the NFL. The only teams that tank are teams that need a quarterback in years where there is a gun quarterback hitting the market. That is the only position that can be game changing in the NFL. And the NFL turns a blind eye because teams that need a quarterback, really need a quarterback.

My reason for sharing this story isnt because the tanking debate is interesting, its just that we have had debates over the years where people tried to bring in a lottery (some people here have proposed different forms of lotteries). I just wanted to let them see that even lotteries dont stop the behavior.

This year is going to be amazing in the NBA. There are like 2-3 generational type of players coming through this year and 8 teams with 18-19 wins. Its going to be a TANK FEST!!!! the knicks are trying to tak but they had a good start to the season and so are stuck on 24. None of these teams are likely to win again this season unless they play each other and then watch out.!

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stui magpie 

suge min pikk


Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: Where ever i go, there I am

PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2018 1:34 pm
Post subject: Reply with quote

E wrote:
stui magpie wrote:
It's an interesting perception (myth?) that a high draft pick can be the saviour of a team.

In practice, it doesn't play out. When was the last time a premiership team got the flag by bottoming out and scoring high draft picks?


Didn't Hawthorn tank one year and snag Lance Franklin, Jarryd Roughead and Jordan Lewis from the first 7 picks in the draft and then win a flag 3 years later? those three players turned out to be quite helpful in that effort i would have thought. especially since they did it in a year where there were only about 8 quality players in the entire draft (and one of them was a father/son)!

If Melbourne become as good as they appear capable of becoming, i'm pretty sure the top draft picks will help.


On the other hand, St kilda has Reiwoldt, Kosi, Goddard, got to GF's but no flag.

Carlton had Murphy, Gibbs and Kruezer all no 1 picks and traded away a pick 4 in Kennedy to get Judd and remained shit

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K 



Joined: 09 Sep 2011


PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2018 3:14 pm
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When there are divisions and the constant threat of relegation, there presumably is no tanking.
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