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Angels or Demons?

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masoncox 



Joined: 31 Aug 2015


PostPosted: Wed Feb 28, 2018 6:55 pm
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I have talked to numerous kids who have been invited down to my local TAC club only to be turfed out again for trival matters.
I have seen it time after time. The recruiters from the local TAC clubs are demigods. They spend their time culling. And it is the kids from crap backgrounds or the immature kids who get the kick up the arse time after time.
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K 



Joined: 09 Sep 2011


PostPosted: Wed Feb 28, 2018 7:06 pm
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Pies2016 wrote:
...
Funnnily enough, there is a school of thought (excuse pun ) amongst some clubs recruiters that the private schools control over future draft prospects is having a negative impact on their preparation into the AFL.
Nothing has been proven and itís all anecdotal but there is a growing correlation between soft tissue injuries that occur with kids that come from schools as opposed to those donít.
A couple private schools have become notorious for ď fostering ď draft picks that end up having delayed starts to their careers because of reoccurring soft tissue injuries.

It makes sense to me. Schools are there to educate first, just as TAC clubs are there to prepare kids for the AFL.


This is very interesting. Actually, the words "soft-tissue injuries" made me wonder immediately what school Freeman came from. (I know he was a Sandy boy in the TAC.) I searched and found the answer (Haileybury) in an article very relevant to the broader discussion here.

https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/afl-draftees-at-top-of-private-school-class-20131130-2yio6.html

Quote:
...
The private schoolboy footballer also was seen as a largely irrelevant minority. Two decades ago, the schools that played the first official game of Australian rules football, Scotch and Melbourne Grammar, produced very little in the way of AFL footballers. They might fill boardrooms and law firms, but the elite private schools, particularly those known by the misnomer of the ''Associated Public Schools (APS)'', weren't footy factories.
...

But money, as they say, changes everything. Today, for a variety of reasons that warrant highlighting, the private school footballer occupies an ever-increasing proportion of the AFL players.
...

What's caused this private school proliferation? One possible explanation - not easily verified or disproved - is that the demographics of those who ''make it'' have taken a turn towards the affluent. An indisputable reason is that these schools are recruiting kids from all sorts of backgrounds to improve their performance and brand in football. Yet another is that, due to their coaching, facilities and resources, a number of private schools have become attractive destinations for the football-focused family.
...

A sizeable number of middle-aged ex-footballers made sufficient money to become private school parents. Their sons are littered throughout the elite schools - as are the ex-players and coaches who work for these heavily-resourced, high fee schools.
...

More worrisome is the possibility that football is trending towards affluence.
Dan Richardson doesn't think this is too great a concern. ''The right talent will still find its way through.''


The whole article is worth a read. I think the point about where former footballers send their sons is an important one.
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HAL 

Please don't shout at me - I can't help it.


Joined: 17 Mar 2003


PostPosted: Wed Feb 28, 2018 7:09 pm
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To me too.
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K 



Joined: 09 Sep 2011


PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2018 3:25 pm
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Pies2016 wrote:
...
Funnnily enough, there is a school of thought (excuse pun ) amongst some clubs recruiters that the private schools control over future draft prospects is having a negative impact on their preparation into the AFL.
Nothing has been proven and itís all anecdotal but there is a growing correlation between soft tissue injuries that occur with kids that come from schools as opposed to those donít.
A couple private schools have become notorious for ď fostering ď draft picks that end up having delayed starts to their careers because of reoccurring soft tissue injuries.

It makes sense to me. Schools are there to educate first, just as TAC clubs are there to prepare kids for the AFL.


All very interesting. It makes one wonder if they're simply overtraining them with loads their bodies aren't ready for. Do those particular notorious schools have ex-AFL players on their staff?
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Pies2016 



Joined: 12 Sep 2014


PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2018 4:37 pm
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Arghh. Completely stuffed D P.

Last edited by Pies2016 on Thu Mar 01, 2018 4:48 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Pies2016 



Joined: 12 Sep 2014


PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2018 4:44 pm
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Pies2016 wrote:
^^^

K, Iím not up to speed with the people leading these schools sports programs.
I deliberately used the word ď anecdotal ď because there is no concrete proof to go with that correlation.
The other train of thought on this subject is that the kids having had to prioritise the APS system first, still put their hand up to play TAC as well. This can be two games in a week and the body simply canít train at all in between these games. They look match ready from the intensity but not match hardened from the core training required. ( big difference )
Recruiters follow the APS programs a lot more closely these days because more elite talent private school kids are playing less TAC than public school kids.
Nathan Murphy ( Brighton grammar and also high end cricket commitments ) played very little at the Dragons but he made an impact every time he was available.
The recruiters biggest challenge is to try to cross reference an APS performance against a TAC performance. Clearly itís easier for an elite talent to play consistently well for his school than it is for his TAC club.
Thatís why both the kids and the recruiters want thesecelite juniors to have as much exposure at TAC level as possible.
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stui magpie 

suge min pikk


Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: Where ever i go, there I am

PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2018 5:37 pm
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K wrote:
Pies2016 wrote:
...
Funnnily enough, there is a school of thought (excuse pun ) amongst some clubs recruiters that the private schools control over future draft prospects is having a negative impact on their preparation into the AFL.
Nothing has been proven and itís all anecdotal but there is a growing correlation between soft tissue injuries that occur with kids that come from schools as opposed to those donít.
A couple private schools have become notorious for ď fostering ď draft picks that end up having delayed starts to their careers because of reoccurring soft tissue injuries.

It makes sense to me. Schools are there to educate first, just as TAC clubs are there to prepare kids for the AFL.


All very interesting. It makes one wonder if they're simply overtraining them with loads their bodies aren't ready for. Do those particular notorious schools have ex-AFL players on their staff?


I'd guess the reverse. They're undertrained without the skill that the TAC clubs have and as soon as they hit their first AFL preseason, their bodies can't handle it.

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K 



Joined: 09 Sep 2011


PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2018 6:00 pm
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^^^
Interesting take, Stui. I wondered about overtraining, because the backdrop to this is the question whether they're getting an advantage in draft terms. I can imagine overtraining giving a short-term boost that gets them over the line in the draft stakes, but comes at a cost later. Undertraining would seem to me to harm their draft prospects.

Also, some of these schools employ ex-AFL players (e.g. M. Lloyd), who might possibly just encourage a light version of AFL training, which might simply not be light enough.
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E 



Joined: 05 May 2010


PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2018 12:13 am
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stui magpie wrote:
K wrote:
Pies2016 wrote:
...
Funnnily enough, there is a school of thought (excuse pun ) amongst some clubs recruiters that the private schools control over future draft prospects is having a negative impact on their preparation into the AFL.
Nothing has been proven and itís all anecdotal but there is a growing correlation between soft tissue injuries that occur with kids that come from schools as opposed to those donít.
A couple private schools have become notorious for ď fostering ď draft picks that end up having delayed starts to their careers because of reoccurring soft tissue injuries.

It makes sense to me. Schools are there to educate first, just as TAC clubs are there to prepare kids for the AFL.


All very interesting. It makes one wonder if they're simply overtraining them with loads their bodies aren't ready for. Do those particular notorious schools have ex-AFL players on their staff?


I'd guess the reverse. They're undertrained without the skill that the TAC clubs have and as soon as they hit their first AFL preseason, their bodies can't handle it.


correct. training excessively without a solid base is the sure fire way to destroy hamstrings.

The correlation between fatigue and occurrence of injury is basically understood now. Just as the likelihood of stress goes up exponentially at full exertion compared to 80% exertion.

If you get a nutcase training program put in palace at your club and you train a 17 yo kid (who is really fast and was just drafted in the top 10, lets say) at the same level as a mature player with 8 AFL pre-seasons under his belt, that 17 yo is in danger of injury from fatigue. I would worry that kid might rip his hammy off the bone if he goes for one of those high speed full exertion runs.

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K 



Joined: 09 Sep 2011


PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2018 1:51 am
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E wrote:
...
If you get a nutcase training program put in palace at your club and you train a 17 yo kid (who is really fast and was just drafted in the top 10, lets say) at the same level as a mature player with 8 AFL pre-seasons under his belt, that 17 yo is in danger of injury from fatigue. I would worry that kid might rip his hammy off the bone if he goes for one of those high speed full exertion runs.

I wonder what E is referring to here?

E-sop's fable: the D, E, and F tiles are lined up on the Scrabble rack. The E tile whispers to the F tile: "I'm with you, F."
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Vexillology 



Joined: 18 Dec 2017
Location: varies from moment to moment

PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2018 2:33 am
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K - "The extreme form, sports scholarships, was basically unheard of up to the 80s and probably even in the 90s."

Nup. Been going on a lot longer than that. Our 1st 18 in the late sixties had four kids in it on scholarships and I can assure you it wasn't for their academic brilliance. Two of them played VFL u/19s during school holidays.

We still got absolutely shellaced by Assumption.
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K 



Joined: 09 Sep 2011


PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2018 2:45 am
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^^^
I see. What school was that?
Yes, Assumption were a machine (and maybe still are).
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E 



Joined: 05 May 2010


PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2018 8:36 am
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K wrote:
E wrote:
...
If you get a nutcase training program put in palace at your club and you train a 17 yo kid (who is really fast and was just drafted in the top 10, lets say) at the same level as a mature player with 8 AFL pre-seasons under his belt, that 17 yo is in danger of injury from fatigue. I would worry that kid might rip his hammy off the bone if he goes for one of those high speed full exertion runs.

I wonder what E is referring to here?

E-sop's fable: the D, E, and F tiles are lined up on the Scrabble rack. The E tile whispers to the F tile: "I'm with you, F."


What E means is that the injury usually occurs around the time of the fatigue (and over-training). Whether he was under trained or over trained in his prior life, i think its pretty clear his body wasn't ready for the training he got when he arrived at Collingwood and not enough care was taken to make sure that was discovered. Where was the individualized training program with careful monitoring and incremental development. These guys were our future. Didn't we owe them at least that much. didn't we owe them at least a first year to progress slowly before we threw them to the wolves. they were our ferrari's. Poor guy is now a lemon!

Of course it could have just been dumb luck. The kid could have had an issue that was just waiting for AFL exertion to reveal itself!

But Nathan Buckley is himself a cautionary tale. He worked too hard without listening to his body and wasted the second half of his career because he tore his hamstring whenever he got over fatigued and then tried full exertion. The 2007 prelim was the perfect example. the guy had to go above and beyond to help us get back into the game and then tore is hamstring in the last gasps of the game from that effort.

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joffa corfe 

PREMIERS 2010


Joined: 13 Nov 2003


PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 7:31 am
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The fault may lay in Junior football itself..

14, 15, 16 Year old boys being treated like 8 year olds is not a healthy football education.

The whole system needs a change

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K 



Joined: 09 Sep 2011


PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 3:12 pm
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joffa corfe wrote:
The fault may lay in Junior football itself..

14, 15, 16 Year old boys being treated like 8 year olds is not a healthy football education.

The whole system needs a change

Please be more expansive, Joffa!
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