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Angels or Demons?

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stui magpie 

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Joined: 03 May 2005
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2018 7:14 pm
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The interesting dynamic is that these kids are drafted straight out of high school, where they're generally amongst the biggest kids and are the school rock stars.

So many high draft picks just don't get there because once they hit AFL level they're suddenly not the big fish anymore and not all of them are willing to put the work and discipline in that matches their talent.

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masoncox 



Joined: 31 Aug 2015


PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2018 8:12 pm
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The best player I have ever seen was Gary Ablett senior.
He destroyed us on a number of occassions.
He once gave Mikey Gayfer 33 stitches to his head courtesy of a deliberate elbow.
He was a wayward child.
But he was the greatest ever to me.
I have seen kids whose talent would amaze you.
But they never make it.
What a friggin waste for us spectators.
And what do we watch....bloody Blair!!!!!!
The most boring player I have ever seen.
He may make 200 games soon.
God what a drainer.
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stui magpie 

dum nei, sakte ja


Joined: 03 May 2005
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2018 9:06 pm
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To say G Ablett Snr was a wayward child is an understatement.

He is also the best footballer I've ever seen play. There has never been a package of speed, strength and skill like that before or since and the sad thing is, no club would touch him with a bargepole these days.

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K 



Joined: 09 Sep 2011


PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2018 9:11 pm
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masoncox wrote:
K wrote:
masoncox wrote:
...
Maybe after the rookie draft we should have the demon draft.
Each club can get 2 extra picks for the wayward types. Would be fun and interesting

... With regards to the original "demon draft", who would be eligible to nominate? Would you need a DUI conviction?

That would be easy K.
It could be a point system.
Colour of skin, school attended whether public or private, your home address....wrong side of the tracks ...more points.
Easy peasy mate.
Oh yes if you are Sudanese....jump to the head of the queue.


But this is no longer a demon draft. It is a diversity draft. JDG would certainly not qualify for it. Nor would GA Sr.
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joffa corfe 

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Joined: 13 Nov 2003


PostPosted: Wed Feb 28, 2018 7:34 am
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masoncox wrote:
K wrote:
masoncox wrote:
...
Maybe after the rookie draft we should have the demon draft.
Each club can get 2 extra picks for the wayward types. Would be fun and interesting

This would be fun only if it refers to a draft in which the Pies can pick up Mr. Petracca at no cost... (I was trying to think of the second pick-up from such a draft but am unsure.)
With regards to the original "demon draft", who would be eligible to nominate? Would you need a DUI conviction?

That would be easy K.
It could be a point system.
Colour of skin, school attended whether public or private, your home address....wrong side of the tracks ...more points.
Easy peasy mate.
Oh yes if you are Sudanese....jump to the head of the queue.


Interesting topic

Pretty much spot on masoncox

The kid from a poor single parented family going to a public school is very much against the odds. sad as it maybe that's how it appears to be.

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joffa corfe 

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Joined: 13 Nov 2003


PostPosted: Wed Feb 28, 2018 7:34 am
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masoncox wrote:
K wrote:
masoncox wrote:
...
Maybe after the rookie draft we should have the demon draft.
Each club can get 2 extra picks for the wayward types. Would be fun and interesting

This would be fun only if it refers to a draft in which the Pies can pick up Mr. Petracca at no cost... (I was trying to think of the second pick-up from such a draft but am unsure.)
With regards to the original "demon draft", who would be eligible to nominate? Would you need a DUI conviction?

That would be easy K.
It could be a point system.
Colour of skin, school attended whether public or private, your home address....wrong side of the tracks ...more points.
Easy peasy mate.
Oh yes if you are Sudanese....jump to the head of the queue.


Interesting topic

Pretty much spot on masoncox

The kid from a poor single parented family going to a public school is very much against the odds. sad as it maybe that's how it appears to be.

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HAL 

Please don't shout at me - I can't help it.


Joined: 17 Mar 2003


PostPosted: Wed Feb 28, 2018 7:36 am
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joffa corfe wrote:
[quote="masoncox"][quote="K"][quote="masoncox"]...
[b]Maybe[/b] after the rookie draft [b] we should have the demon draft.[/b]
Each club can get 2 extra picks for the wayward types. Would be fun and interesting[/quote]
This would be fun only if it refers to a draft in which the Pies can pick up Mr. Petracca at no cost... (I was trying to think of the second pick-up from such a draft but am unsure.)
With regards to the original "demon draft", who would be eligible to nominate? Would you need a DUI conviction?[/quote]
That would be easy K.
It could be a point system.
Colour of skin, school attended whether public or private, your home address....wrong side of the tracks ...more points.
Easy peasy mate.
Oh yes if you are Sudanese....jump to the head of the queue.[/quote]

Interesting topic

Pretty much spot on masoncox

The kid from a poor single parented family going to a public school is very much against the odds. sad as it maybe that's how it appears to be.
OK What should I have said?
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joffa corfe 

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Joined: 13 Nov 2003


PostPosted: Wed Feb 28, 2018 7:37 am
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Maybe it's called elitism ?
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Pies2016 



Joined: 12 Sep 2014


PostPosted: Wed Feb 28, 2018 9:53 am
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The AFL have recently become aware that they are dragging the chain when it comes to registrations and participation of U18s in the outer south eastern suburbs. ( home of the Dandenong stingrays ) This is because of the high numbers of multicultural families. In response, the AFL have heavily beefed up their resources and communication with local councils in an attempt to find ways for kids from multicultural backgrounds to play the game.
Itís obviously a localised example but they are at least prepared to play their part in making the game available to all young members of the community.
Most kids will be given the access and the opportunity to play our great game. How they embrace that opportunity is up to them.

Personally, I donít blame any club for bypassing a perceived ď demon ď.
AFL Clubs are about winning games of footy and thatís pretty much it. They are ill equipped to act as day care centres or reprimand centres for wayward young men. From the glass half empty point of view, SOMETIMES the best thing to do for these ď wayward talents ď is to let them remain at a grass roots level. Itís likely they have some sort of comfort zone at a local level and the moment that is taken away from them, many donít adapt or handle change.

Every individual case would be different but there is just as much time spent by recruiters deciding why we shouldnít recruit a player as there is as to why we should.
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Boogie Knights 



Joined: 18 Sep 2015


PostPosted: Wed Feb 28, 2018 10:23 am
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Pies2016 wrote:


Every individual case would be different but there is just as much time spent by recruiters deciding why we shouldnít recruit a player as there is as to why we should.


This is the most accurate statement about recruitment I've read here. I've heard a number of recruitment managers speak on how they assess talent, and the general theme is that they identify talent first, this kid is a talent we would love to have, and then try to find reasons not to recruit them. If none can be found, he's top of the draft board and so on.
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masoncox 



Joined: 31 Aug 2015


PostPosted: Wed Feb 28, 2018 10:33 am
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The issue is not whether the "demons" are high risk.
It is about mechanisms that need to be put in place to make sure we as spectators are not dudded in seeing x factor players, of which the "demons" are over represented.
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Pies2016 



Joined: 12 Sep 2014


PostPosted: Wed Feb 28, 2018 11:44 am
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masoncox wrote:
The issue is not whether the "demons" are high risk.
It is about mechanisms that need to be put in place to make sure we as spectators are not dudded in seeing x factor players, of which the "demons" are over represented.


ď mechanisms that need to be put in place ď at what level ?
Grass roots, juniors, TAC or AFL club level ?

My earlier post was about what the AFL is trying to do in order to make the game available to more kids at junior, grass roots and ultimately TAC U18 level ( as a feeder club to the AFL pathway ) I consider that a mechanism.
The AFL present many community camps around the country and bring the game to all parts of Australia. To me that seems a good mechanism for these X factor players to get a start.
At AFL level, Iím really not sure what more any club can do after a player is added to their list. Every player, X factor or not, is given a code of conduct manual, dietary regime, personalised training program and access to some of the best footy minds in the country. They are also offered worlds best practice training facilities, professional sports scientists, dieticians, psychologists, Chaplinís and more when they are drafted.

How many times do you think X factor players like DeGoey, Sier and Kirby ( I know, not everyone will see three as X factor types ) have been told by numerous senior coaches what they have to do in order to become good / great AFL footballers ? At some point, with all the above support that is available to them, they have to ultimately be responsible for their own actions.

You can lead any horse to water but you canít all make them drink.
So I go back to my earlier post, in some instances, clubs decide they have identified a horse they believe wonít drink, so they simply donít invest.
I donít think there is anything wrong with that and possibly it also proves to be a benefit to the individual concerned ( as per earlier post also )
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masoncox 



Joined: 31 Aug 2015


PostPosted: Wed Feb 28, 2018 12:12 pm
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Maybe the clubs should be forced to take on more "demons".
A quota of indigenous players, a demon draft, incentives for other clubs to take on wayward players from other clubs.
The problem here is the same problem we get in society.
Public vs private education, cloured skin vs white skin, stable middle class families vs dysfunctional working/welfare families.
We are not utilising the whole of society only the elite part with recruiting.
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K 



Joined: 09 Sep 2011


PostPosted: Wed Feb 28, 2018 1:17 pm
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masoncox wrote:
Maybe the clubs should be forced to take on more "demons".
A quota of indigenous players, a demon draft, incentives for other clubs to take on wayward players from other clubs.
The problem here is the same problem we get in society.
Public vs private education, cloured skin vs white skin, stable middle class families vs dysfunctional working/welfare families.
We are not utilising the whole of society only the elite part with recruiting.

There may be some sort of overlap, but demons and diversity are two distinct things. JDG would definitely not qualify as a diversity hire. (I guess you could say he has no real excuses for any misdemeanour.)

A diversity draft or some other mechanism could possibly work. After all, we have Category B (or whatever the correct letter is) rookies, etc. A demon draft clearly(?) wouldn't work.

I note that Tommy L's old school has some sort of indigenous fund to give scholarships to indigenous kids. (Not that this has any relation to football. Just a random thought.)

Another thing: traditionally, private schools have not been a bigger AFL feeder than public schools, so I'm not sure that in itself is an issue. What has changed in the last few decades has been that private schools are actively recruiting potential sports stars. The extreme form, sports scholarships, was basically unheard of up to the 80s and probably even in the 90s.
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Pies2016 



Joined: 12 Sep 2014


PostPosted: Wed Feb 28, 2018 4:51 pm
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^^^

Funnnily enough, there is a school of thought (excuse pun ) amongst some clubs recruiters that the private schools control over future draft prospects is having a negative impact on their preparation into the AFL.
Nothing has been proven and itís all anecdotal but there is a growing correlation between soft tissue injuries that occur with kids that come from schools as opposed to those donít.
A couple private schools have become notorious for ď fostering ď draft picks that end up having delayed starts to their careers because of reoccurring soft tissue injuries.

It makes sense to me. Schools are there to educate first, just as TAC clubs are there to prepare kids for the AFL.
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