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stui magpie 

dum nei, sakte ja


Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: Where ever i go, there I am

PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 4:34 pm
Post subject: Reply with quote

and sometimes even a lot of love doesn't go far enough
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Skids Cancer



Joined: 11 Sep 2007
Location: Joined 3/6/02 ... aka Assassin member #175

PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 4:55 pm
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David wrote:
think positive wrote:
personally i think its a damn shame to label any kid a loser, give them a chance not to waste their lives, and maybe pay something forward.


Quoted for truth. The language we use reflects our attitude on this: to leave troubled youths on the rubbish pile and revel in the fact that we’re better than them (a cruel and small-minded response), or to treat them as human beings who can and should be helped (even if they ultimately can’t be saved from themselves, a little love goes a long way).


Hang on!

He's out at a festival drinking enough alcohol to be totally incoherent so that obviously costs money... does it not?

He gets apprehended for his behaviour at a train station, is released and then, within the hour, is reported to police for jumping on the road in the path of oncoming vehicles.

He is a dead set fuvking loser, with only himself to blame for his predicament.
This clown will seriously hurt or kill someone and still find a way to blame someone else.

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David Libra

Rose with a violent heart


Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: où surréal côtoie

PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 6:00 pm
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I don't see your point, Skids. Yes, he sounds like he's a bit of a mess to say the least. It's ridiculous to say he "only has himself to blame" for that.

stui magpie wrote:
and sometimes even a lot of love doesn't go far enough


Can be tough love, btw!

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HAL 

Please don't shout at me - I can't help it.


Joined: 17 Mar 2003


PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 6:05 pm
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Come on. I see. like he's a mess to say the least is like he's a mess to say the least ?
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think positive Libra

Side By Side


Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere

PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 6:20 pm
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nomadjack wrote:
Mugwump wrote:
Those of us not soaked in Voller’s spit and urine should be wary in rushing to judgement of those who are, while they do the hard and unpleasant work on which our peace depends. Though the video shows some of them in a terrible light, their rights (and the effect on their mindset of being vilely abused by Dylan Voller) seem to get little consideration.


Hang on a second here. We can debate endlessly what causes prison guards to mistreat prisoners, but in the end, only one person can choose not to do so.


yep

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stui magpie 

dum nei, sakte ja


Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: Where ever i go, there I am

PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 6:23 pm
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David wrote:
I don't see your point, Skids. Yes, he sounds like he's a bit of a mess to say the least. It's ridiculous to say he "only has himself to blame" for that.

stui magpie wrote:
and sometimes even a lot of love doesn't go far enough


Can be tough love, btw!


maybe that's what he was getting some of inside?

You can't make a person change, they're only salvageable once they want to be.

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Mugwump 



Joined: 28 Jul 2007
Location: Between London and Melbourne

PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 7:53 pm
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think positive wrote:
nomadjack wrote:
Mugwump wrote:
Those of us not soaked in Voller’s spit and urine should be wary in rushing to judgement of those who are, while they do the hard and unpleasant work on which our peace depends. Though the video shows some of them in a terrible light, their rights (and the effect on their mindset of being vilely abused by Dylan Voller) seem to get little consideration.


Hang on a second here. We can debate endlessly what causes prison guards to mistreat prisoners, but in the end, only one person can choose not to do so.


yep


I am not sure what point you are trying to make. I agree that prison guards who mistreat prisoners deserve punishment under the law, assuming laws are broken. On the Nuremberg principle, their management may also deserve the same, given that guards are operating in a policy-governed organisation. I am dubious that the infamous and undoubtedly confronting picture of Dylan Voller hooded in a chair was maltreatment, however, given that it was designed to disable his disgusting assaults. Note that after the deepest possible investigation, and plenty of political pressure outside the NT, no charges were sustained..

I assume your allusion is to my comment that only a pregnant woman can choose not to drink and avoid damaging the life chances of her child. Grafting this comment to another context may look clever, but in truth it is an entirely different issue. The question in Voller’s case is whether someone can take instrumental and authorized action in a correctional facility to prevent another person from assaulting them physically, including with phlegm and urine. The question in the case of pregnancy is the treatment of a harmless and defenceless child by an autonomous individual.

As long as we continue to make excuses for child abuse in aboriginal communities by patronising and denying the agency of those who are responsible for children, we will create damaged people like Dylan Voller. We can and should try to help people to make good choices. We can and should try to improve their lives. But they are still responsible for the choices they make. Once we deny that, we are on the road to perdition ; a road where the toll is always paid by the most vulnerable.

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David Libra

Rose with a violent heart


Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: où surréal côtoie

PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 8:39 pm
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stui magpie wrote:
David wrote:
I don't see your point, Skids. Yes, he sounds like he's a bit of a mess to say the least. It's ridiculous to say he "only has himself to blame" for that.

stui magpie wrote:
and sometimes even a lot of love doesn't go far enough


Can be tough love, btw!


maybe that's what he was getting some of inside?

You can't make a person change, they're only salvageable once they want to be.


Oh god no. Prison abuse is anything but that – I’m just talking about a non-indulgent, pro-accountability supportive approach. Prisons, even those run professionally, are generally violent and traumatising environments.

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Please don't shout at me - I can't help it.


Joined: 17 Mar 2003


PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 8:42 pm
Post subject: Reply with quote

Uh. I see. like he's a mess to say the least is like he's a mess to say the least ?
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Skids Cancer



Joined: 11 Sep 2007
Location: Joined 3/6/02 ... aka Assassin member #175

PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 9:50 pm
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Geez you soft cocks just don't get it do you!?

Everybody has got a story, had a tough hand dealt to them. Winners get up, losers make excuses!

I've disclosed plenty about my upbringing on here before, the sexual abuse by a mates Dad in my early teens, the domestic violence, the alcohol abuse and subsequent results.... did I sulk, did I serk to lay the blame on somebody else, did I become a sex offender, did I abuse authority.... ?

No! I got on with my life and made the best I possibly could of it.

Am I perfect? Laughing ... Vic Parkers know I'm far from that, but please, lets stop the protection and pandering of oxygen thieves with NO desire to contribute to or, be part of a civilized society.

Call them for the trash they are and deal with them accordingly.... for fuvks sake!

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Mugwump 



Joined: 28 Jul 2007
Location: Between London and Melbourne

PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 10:28 pm
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^ you had one big advantage in all that, though, Skids. You did not have a vast industry telling you that it was someone else’s fault and that you did not have to own your problems. Very few people are strong enough to overcome that.

Add to it an officially-encouraged apartheid-like upbringing in a culturally and economically remote community rife with drugs, and it’s no wonder a lot of aboriginal kids (and adults) struggle to make progress in the modern competitive world.

Though I do not agree with all your views, and I think you can be too tough on people who are not made of the same stuff as yourself, good on you for what you achieved despite the knocks.

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Last edited by Mugwump on Mon Feb 19, 2018 10:35 pm; edited 1 time in total
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David Libra

Rose with a violent heart


Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: où surréal côtoie

PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 10:33 pm
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You’ve done well to emerge from that intact, Skids, but not everybody with that sort of background makes it – indeed, a great many more don’t compared to those from less dysfunctional backgrounds. If you looked back on your past, you’d probably find turning points where you got through when someone else would have fallen off the wagon. Why? It’s usually a big combination of factors, but let’s say it was just pure strength of will: why do you have that willpower when others don’t? What skills did you have that got you through?

If you can answer all that, then maybe we can start to fill in a picture of what sorts of skills Dylan Voller needs if he’s going to get his life together. I’ll tell you one thing with confidence: it’s not being treated like trash.

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swoop42 Virgo

The Flash


Joined: 02 Aug 2008
Location: The 22

PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 12:09 am
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Skids wrote:
Geez you soft cocks just don't get it do you!?

Everybody has got a story, had a tough hand dealt to them. Winners get up, losers make excuses!

I've disclosed plenty about my upbringing on here before, the sexual abuse by a mates Dad in my early teens, the domestic violence, the alcohol abuse and subsequent results.... did I sulk, did I serk to lay the blame on somebody else, did I become a sex offender, did I abuse authority.... ?

No! I got on with my life and made the best I possibly could of it.

Am I perfect? Laughing ... Vic Parkers know I'm far from that, but please, lets stop the protection and pandering of oxygen thieves with NO desire to contribute to or, be part of a civilized society.

Call them for the trash they are and deal with them accordingly.... for fuvks sake!


Some people win the lottery.

Are they the rule or the exception just like you.

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swoop42 Virgo

The Flash


Joined: 02 Aug 2008
Location: The 22

PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 12:11 am
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If only the kid could kick a football real well.
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think positive Libra

Side By Side


Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere

PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 5:44 am
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Hah, true that. All would be forgiven!
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