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Skids Cancer



Joined: 11 Sep 2007
Location: Joined 3/6/02 ... aka Assassin member #175

PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 12:00 pm
Post subject: Remember this loser...Reply with quote

Dylan Voller claims he was bashed by Perth transit guards.

The PTA alleges the footage shows an agitated youth flitting from one confrontation to another and goading public officers.

At one stage Mr Voller appears to jump off the platform at Cannington station and on to the railway tracks, pull down his trousers and expose his genitals to the public. The PTA alleges that he then pulls his trousers up before pulling them down and exposing himself again.

The PTA says that when he got back up on to the platform he was arrested by two guards and wrestled to the ground. The PTA confirmed one of the guards involved suffered a facial injury. It is not clear what caused the injury.

https://thewest.com.au/news/wa/dylan-voller-claims-he-was-bashed-by-perth-transit-guards-ng-b88748423z

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David Libra

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Joined: 27 Jul 2003
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 1:56 pm
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You’ve conveniently forgotten to mention why we know his name. Not because he’s an exemplary member of society, but because he was tortured and mistreated in NT prisons throughout his childhood and adolescence. I see the old tabloid tactic of attacking the individual as a way of distracting from the relevant issue is out in force.
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Skids Cancer



Joined: 11 Sep 2007
Location: Joined 3/6/02 ... aka Assassin member #175

PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 2:23 pm
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Tortured Rolling Eyes

Oh dear.

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David Libra

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Joined: 27 Jul 2003
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 4:33 pm
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Have you seen the footage?

http://www.abc.net.au/4corners/australias-shame-promo/7649462

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Mugwump 



Joined: 28 Jul 2007
Location: Between London and Melbourne

PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 10:52 pm
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Have seen the footage, and read the RC report which makes clear that Dylan Voller was an extremely aggressive, intractable and unpleasant individual. If people will not comply reasonably with lawful reasonable instructions, smear faces all over their walls, and then spit at law enforcement officers, I’m not sure what recourse law enforcement officers have. They are just doing their job protecting the community and they have a right to neutralize an assailant. It’s not part of anyone’s job to be spat at or assaulted by a criminal. Mr Voller may have many reasons for his impossible behaviour, and it is no doubt hard to live in his skin, but at some point every individual has to be accountable for their choices. It is not “torture” (in any normal sense of that word) to forcibly restrain someone from assaulting guards.

The RC made clear that there are deep structural issues causing Aboriginal youths to behave in ways that get them into the criminal justice system. Chief among these are economic isolation, drugs, (esp. alcohol in utero and after) and parental neglect. There is a lot of stuff about intergenerational trauma, a very vague, hard-to-substantiate concept which should be treated with great scepticism. The RC made a few practical recommendations but faced with an intractable problem, those it made tended to be of a bureaucratic nature (more long range plans, interdepartmental bodies, family support centres, and the always reliable standby of better training, etc). The result was neither truly strategic, nor operationally executable. Until Aboriginal Australia stops living in the dead end de-facto apartheid of remote communities, and joins the global economy, and starts taking community leadership responsibility for its children, things like this will continue to surface.

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think positive Libra

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 5:39 am
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Yeah I reckon I’d be pretty aggressive or at least anti social if I was treated like that.

I’m all for discipline, for expecting kids to take responsibility for their action, but that video is Gitmo. Talk about damaged, talk about setting them up for a lifetime in jail. God knows in these threads I’ve had little sympathy for criminals in jail, but that doesn’t mean I condone outright cruelty and abuse. And he was a juvenile. Picked up and thrown in the room and the door slammed shut without a look back. I totally agree the guards should not put up with violence or spitting, but since when was water boarding in their job description? How is he supposed to care about anything when no one is caring about him?

This was always going to go one of two ways, mid day movie about a boy who beat the odds, or mid night movie about a kid smashed by the system and turning bad. What happened after the show? Was he given any assistance? I’m genuinely asking, I have no idea. What did he do to end up there in the first place?

When I see shit like this I make judgements too - where are the $£$%^%%$ parents? Grand parents? Anyone? Why did he turn out so feral in the first place? And certainly, that place isn’t going to make a healthy difference. Kid had no chance.

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Mugwump 



Joined: 28 Jul 2007
Location: Between London and Melbourne

PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 6:25 am
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think positive wrote:
Yeah I reckon I’d be pretty aggressive or at least anti social if I was treated like that.

I’m all for discipline, for expecting kids to take responsibility for their action, but that video is Gitmo. Talk about damaged, talk about setting them up for a lifetime in jail. God knows in these threads I’ve had little sympathy for criminals in jail, but that doesn’t mean I condone outright cruelty and abuse. And he was a juvenile. Picked up and thrown in the room and the door slammed shut without a look back. I totally agree the guards should not put up with violence or spitting, but since when was water boarding in their job description? How is he supposed to care about anything when no one is caring about him?

This was always going to go one of two ways, mid day movie about a boy who beat the odds, or mid night movie about a kid smashed by the system and turning bad. What happened after the show? Was he given any assistance? I’m genuinely asking, I have no idea. What did he do to end up there in the first place?

When I see shit like this I make judgements too - where are the $£$%^%%$ parents? Grand parents? Anyone? Why did he turn out so feral in the first place? And certainly, that place isn’t going to make a healthy difference. Kid had no chance.


The Royal Commission (see the report) wrote his case up extensively as a case study. It is clear in that report that he was treated like that because he was impossible to control and continually assaulted officers, keeping cups of urine to throw at them, smearing his cell with faeces and spitting. As a result he was heavily restrained, as we saw.

I don’t know what good alternatives officers had (and many ordinary people might want to hurt him after being subjected to such filthy, vile assaults) but the restraint imposed in response to his actions was very different to torture. It happened because he behaved with inhumanity toward ordinary people doing their jobs.

The Royal commission also indicated that many of the problematic aboriginal youths are a result of Fetal Alcohol Syndrome. We can debate endlessly what causes women to drink like that during pregnancy, but in the end, only one person can choose not to do so.

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think positive Libra

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 6:43 am
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Mugwump wrote:
think positive wrote:
Yeah I reckon I’d be pretty aggressive or at least anti social if I was treated like that.

I’m all for discipline, for expecting kids to take responsibility for their action, but that video is Gitmo. Talk about damaged, talk about setting them up for a lifetime in jail. God knows in these threads I’ve had little sympathy for criminals in jail, but that doesn’t mean I condone outright cruelty and abuse. And he was a juvenile. Picked up and thrown in the room and the door slammed shut without a look back. I totally agree the guards should not put up with violence or spitting, but since when was water boarding in their job description? How is he supposed to care about anything when no one is caring about him?

This was always going to go one of two ways, mid day movie about a boy who beat the odds, or mid night movie about a kid smashed by the system and turning bad. What happened after the show? Was he given any assistance? I’m genuinely asking, I have no idea. What did he do to end up there in the first place?

When I see shit like this I make judgements too - where are the $£$%^%%$ parents? Grand parents? Anyone? Why did he turn out so feral in the first place? And certainly, that place isn’t going to make a healthy difference. Kid had no chance.


The Royal Commission (see the report) wrote his case up extensively as a case study. It is clear in that report that he was treated like that because he was impossible to control and continually assaulted officers, keeping cups of urine to throw at them, smearing his cell with faeces and spitting. As a result he was heavily restrained, as we saw.

I don’t know what good alternatives officers had (and many ordinary people might want to hurt him after being subjected to such filthy, vile assaults) but the restraint imposed in response to his actions was very different to torture. It happened because he behaved with inhumanity toward ordinary people doing their jobs.

The Royal commission also indicated that many of the problematic aboriginal youths are a result of Fetal Alcohol Syndrome. We can debate endlessly what causes women to drink like that during pregnancy, but in the end, only one person can choose not to do so.


how about the water boarding in the video?

dont forget also, the video comes from the authorities, there is always 3 sides to every story,

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Mugwump 



Joined: 28 Jul 2007
Location: Between London and Melbourne

PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 6:52 am
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I didn’t see any waterboarding, but didn’t watch it all the way through and I did not see it referenced in the section of the RC report dealing with his behaviour (volume 2a, section 8 ). If there was waterboarding as I understand the term, then torture might be an accurate description and the people involved should be prosecuted. But I don’t think the facts of Voller’s atrocious behaviour are disputed in the RC report. It is what it is. For whatever reason he behaves disgustingly toward other people, and seems to have done so from an early age. The RC report of course attaches no fault to him, but seems to think that the failure of authorities to “fix” him is where the fault lies. Whether one accepts this or not depends on ones philosophy of human behaviour and one’s views concerning the level of scarce resource society can afford to commit to those who abuse norms of decency, and the opportunity costs of doing so.

One more point is that the dominant theme in both of the male cases in Section 8 of volume 2A is an “addiction” (sic) to marijuana. Interestingly i think the other three cases (two females, one male) referenced in the report inspire more significantly more sympathy than Mr Voller.

None of this supports the NT Correctional Services’ poor management at Don Dale. The point is that what happened to Dylan Voller there had a lot to do with his personal conduct acting within a pretty unsatisfactory system. And it seems, so far, that he was back to his old self last week at Cannington, provoking a response from public officials then seeking to sue for it. Let’s see what the court shows.

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think positive Libra

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 10:01 am
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actually i was wrong, it was tear gas, then water im guessing to wash it out?

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-07-25/four-corners-evidence-of-kids-tear-gas-in-don-dale-prison/7656128

gee, sounds lovely - dont they have straight jackets?
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-12-12/dylan-voller-evidence-nt-royal-commission-four-corners-don-dale/8112126

from a decent officer
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-03-24/don-dale-detainees-called-camp-dogs-by-officers-commission-hears/8384218

nice!
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-03-20/don-dale-officer-filmed-himself-asking-children-for-oral-sex/8369284

wow, conductive to rehabilitation!
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-03-20/don-dale-officer-filmed-himself-asking-children-for-oral-sex/8369284

lets hope he just fell off the wagon.
http://www.watoday.com.au/wa-news/theres-no-such-thing-as-failing-dylan-vollers-message-to-wa-youths-20180103-h0d4e9.html

Ok, i dont condone anything he did, obviously he had no parental guidance back when he really needed it. but really, if we are trying to stop these juveniles becoming career criminals, we have to do a lot better than this.

personally i think its a damn shame to label any kid a loser, give them a chance not to waste their lives, and maybe pay something forward.

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Mugwump 



Joined: 28 Jul 2007
Location: Between London and Melbourne

PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 10:52 am
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^ I think there are two separate issues here, TP :

1. Was Don Dale well-managed and did the behaviour of officers meet acceptable standards ? The answer to that is evidently no.

2. What is the character and behaviour of Dylan Voller (the subject of (Skids post) and did that justify his being placed in a spit good and restrained in th chair designed for that purpose ? I think the answers to those questions are that this is a particularly aggressive and abusive person, and so it might well justify it. Those of us not soaked in Voller’s spit and urine should be wary in rushing to judgement of those who are, while they do the hard and unpleasant work on which our peace depends. Though the video shows some of them in a terrible light, their rights (and the effect on their mindset of being vilely abused by Dylan Voller) seem to get little consideration.

I am sure that Voller has a lot of problems. It cannot be easy living in his skin, and I hope that he gains maturity and personal integrity now that he is having so much dedicated public resource allocated to his welfare. This latest incident, involving provocation followed by more complaints of “bashing” (slight cuts and grazes, judging from the photos shown) does not sound promising, given it conforms to a pattern of behaviour.

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think positive Libra

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 11:37 am
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Mugwump wrote:
^ I think there are two separate issues here, TP :

1. Was Don Dale well-managed and did the behaviour of officers meet acceptable standards ? The answer to that is evidently no.

2. What is the character and behaviour of Dylan Voller (the subject of (Skids post) and did that justify his being placed in a spit good and restrained in th chair designed for that purpose ? I think the answers to those questions are that this is a particularly aggressive and abusive person, and so it might well justify it. Those of us not soaked in Voller’s spit and urine should be wary in rushing to judgement of those who are, while they do the hard and unpleasant work on which our peace depends. Though the video shows some of them in a terrible light, their rights (and the effect on their mindset of being vilely abused by Dylan Voller) seem to get little consideration.

I am sure that Voller has a lot of problems. It cannot be easy living in his skin, and I hope that he gains maturity and personal integrity now that he is having so much dedicated public resource allocated to his welfare. This latest incident, involving provocation followed by more complaints of “bashing” (slight cuts and grazes, judging from the photos shown) does not sound promising, given it conforms to a pattern of behaviour.


i guess it depends which came first - his ill treatment of them, or their ill treatment of him. The verbal abuse from the guards show a real lack of concern for their charges, and im sure that goes both ways, however who is the adult? Who will be brave enough to stand up and make a change?
if tear gas is needed, then yes, use it, but dont laugh at the victims.
If both parties continue to abuse each other, nothing good will come of it, be the bigger person. Maybe, just maybe, a little respect would allow one youth to find a better way.

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Mugwump 



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PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 12:12 pm
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^ the type of behaviour he showed at Don Dale had been evident for years according to the RC hearings and the case study report. So while Don Dale sure didn’t help, it was not the cause in his case. I would not defend the behaviour of the wardens in general. But this guy seems to be really, really unpleasant, which was the point of Skids OP, in ways that the spit hood and restraining chair are designed to control.
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nomadjack 



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PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 3:56 pm
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Mugwump wrote:
Those of us not soaked in Voller’s spit and urine should be wary in rushing to judgement of those who are, while they do the hard and unpleasant work on which our peace depends. Though the video shows some of them in a terrible light, their rights (and the effect on their mindset of being vilely abused by Dylan Voller) seem to get little consideration.


Hang on a second here. We can debate endlessly what causes prison guards to mistreat prisoners, but in the end, only one person can choose not to do so.
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David Libra

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 4:23 pm
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think positive wrote:
personally i think its a damn shame to label any kid a loser, give them a chance not to waste their lives, and maybe pay something forward.


Quoted for truth. The language we use reflects our attitude on this: to leave troubled youths on the rubbish pile and revel in the fact that we’re better than them (a cruel and small-minded response), or to treat them as human beings who can and should be helped (even if they ultimately can’t be saved from themselves, a little love goes a long way).

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