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Mugwump 



Joined: 28 Jul 2007
Location: Between London and Melbourne

PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 9:32 am
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^ I have no problem with a reasonable “no drinking” clause in the contract of a high paid elite athlete, for the reasons you describe. I have a problem with policing their traffic behaviour unless it has actually put them in jail because it is independent of the work they do. And it is the traffic offence that has everyone up in arms, not the boozing per se. Focus on the latter and I might be with you.
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K 



Joined: 09 Sep 2011


PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 10:33 am
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David wrote:
^ I’m well aware it’s a global issue. Still, the fact that something is the status quo doesn’t mean it’s right or that it can’t change.


Yes, it can change, but not while everything else is kept constant.
Reduce the salaries and the perks and they can have all sorts of freedoms.
It's a reward-responsibility trade-off.

"It's not personal, Sonny. It's strictly business."
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David Libra

Reel around the fountain


Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Pripyat, in spirit

PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 1:28 pm
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K wrote:
No, while the club's reputation may be part of the issue, it's not the only issue. I disagree with this belief that it's not affecting his training or performance or that of the team.

His teammates seem aggrieved, some of them to an extent I've never witnessed previously in their decade-long careers. I don't think this punishment is just something imposed by the suits above, with no input from the players and no support from the players. His behaviour is therefore having a strongly negative effect on the team.

On an individual level, there is no way that does not affect his training and performance. What night exactly was it? Saturday night? I assume there was no training the next day, but it still undermines his performance. And is he fully recovered from the operation? If not, it undermined the recovery as well. I don't know why so many think otherwise. That's not how athletic performance works.


Having a few drinks at a pub undermines recovery from hip surgery? Let's not be silly about this. Anyway, as Mugwump points out, it was the driving that was the problem – if he'd caught a taxi I doubt we'd be hearing anything about this.

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think positive Libra

Side By Side


Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere

PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 1:57 pm
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unless he showed up hung over to training
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K 



Joined: 09 Sep 2011


PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 2:22 pm
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David wrote:
K wrote:
...
On an individual level, there is no way that does not affect his training and performance. ... And is he fully recovered from the operation? If not, it undermined the recovery as well. I don't know why so many think otherwise. That's not how athletic performance works.


Having a few drinks at a pub undermines recovery from hip surgery? Let's not be silly about this. ...

Define "a few". By definition (exceeding 0.08 ) he was (more than) binge drinking.

I believe most of the research has focussed on pre-operative binge drinking. Perhaps we can suggest to the club that they add to JDG's homework the task of researching the literature on the effects of post-operative binge drinking.
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David Libra

Reel around the fountain


Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Pripyat, in spirit

PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 2:41 pm
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Or maybe the club should do the research itself before doling our penalties for things players choose to do in their personal life. Idea

Seriously, though, we can use our brains on this. Recovery from this kind of surgery is all about rest, physio, maintaining fitness and so on. Diet may play a small role in that but I maintain that a single drinking session isn’t really going to make your hip heal more slowly.
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HAL 

Please don't shout at me - I can't help it.


Joined: 17 Mar 2003


PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 2:45 pm
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Thanks for the info.
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K 



Joined: 09 Sep 2011


PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 4:46 pm
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David wrote:
...
Seriously, though, we can use our brains on this. Recovery from this kind of surgery is all about rest, physio, maintaining fitness and so on. Diet may play a small role in that but I maintain that a single drinking session isn’t really going to make your hip heal more slowly.

Seriously, surely it cannot help and may plausibly harm. I also think it's probably an indicator that he's not been fully diligent in his rehab work. At the very least, he surely was not resting, doing physio and working on his fitness on that day or the next one. I think the same about Jamie's injury and his incident.
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Wokko Pisces

Come and take it.


Joined: 04 Oct 2005
Location: Ballarat!

PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 7:32 am
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Speaking as an athlete in a full contact sport; alcohol has a significant detrimental impact on recovery time.

My anecdotal evidence aside, there's also science.

http://www.massey.ac.nz/massey/about-massey/news/article.cfm?mnarticle_uuid=752BCC77-BDD9-826F-CB3F-4E7B4699B08E

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HAL 

Please don't shout at me - I can't help it.


Joined: 17 Mar 2003


PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 7:33 am
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Do year old males have anecdotal evidence there's science?
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K 



Joined: 09 Sep 2011


PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 9:09 am
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Wokko wrote:
...
http://www.massey.ac.nz/massey/about-massey/news/article.cfm?mnarticle_uuid=752BCC77-BDD9-826F-CB3F-4E7B4699B08E


Thanks for the link. (Now we can give Jordy a starting place for his extra homework, David...)
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David Libra

Reel around the fountain


Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Pripyat, in spirit

PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 9:46 am
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Wokko wrote:
Speaking as an athlete in a full contact sport; alcohol has a significant detrimental impact on recovery time.

My anecdotal evidence aside, there's also science.

http://www.massey.ac.nz/massey/about-massey/news/article.cfm?mnarticle_uuid=752BCC77-BDD9-826F-CB3F-4E7B4699B08E


Touche – I stand corrected. And if he was under instruction not to get drunk during his rehab, then of course that makes it an in-house discipline issue.

But let's not kid ourselves that his indiscretion is worth an indefinite suspension, $20,000 fine, licking the changeroom floor clean after training sessions for six months etc. Proportion in disciplinary measures matters, and the AFL and its clubs have been so punitive and authoritarian for so long now that they can only escalate in cases like these. While professionalism entails doing the work required to stay fit and play to your best ability, I don't actually think such a repressive environment is good for players' well-being in the long run.

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stui magpie 

dum nei, sakte ja


Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: Where ever i go, there I am

PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 10:06 am
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To be clear, he was fined $10k and volunteered to pay the other $10k to charity.

From what I've read, it was also his (or his agent) idea for the indefinite ban until he wins back respect and to ban himself from alcohol for the season.

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David Libra

Reel around the fountain


Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Pripyat, in spirit

PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 10:55 am
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An ingenious method, getting people to come up with their own punishments! (Not necessarily a bad idea in theory...) Surprised
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K 



Joined: 09 Sep 2011


PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 11:45 am
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I think it may be a good idea for teachers (at all levels) to use (for certain misdemeanours).

Returning to JDG, I'm pretty sure his manager came up with that and other things, in an attempt to head off a worse outcome for his client. I imagine JDG just sat there like a potato.

On other professions...

John Sneddon wrote:
In the prominent case of Ziems v. Prothonotary of the Supreme Court of New South Wales a barrister was struck off the role of legal practitioners after being convicted of manslaughter and sentenced to two years imprisonment for killing another person in a car accident whilst intoxicated.
Mr Ziems appealed his disbarment to the High Court of Australia which held that his manslaughter conviction had “neither connexion with nor significance for any professional functions as a barrister and therefore did not involve conduct that made the barrister unfit to be a member of his profession”.
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