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Barnaby Joyce affair

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David Libra

Reel around the fountain


Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Pripyat, in spirit

PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2018 8:55 am
Post subject: Barnaby Joyce affairReply with quote

I'm sure everybody here knows about this by now:

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2018/feb/07/barnaby-joyce-incredibly-hurt-by-media-revelations-about-his-private-life

Quote:
Barnaby Joyce has described the breakdown of his marriage as “one of the greatest failures in [his] life” but refused to answer questions about his relationship with a former staffer on the basis of privacy.

On the ABC’s flagship current affairs program 7.30, Australia’s deputy prime minister denied any wrongdoing but refused to say whether the relationship started while Vikki Campion was his media adviser.

Joyce’s relationship was made public by the Sydney Daily Telegraph on Wednesday with a front page photo of Campion visibly pregnant.


The responses, both by media professionals and people in general, are interesting. Some (like me) think that it was unethical to publish the story; some think that a politician's private life is always fair game; some said that this was a special case given that Joyce's role in the campaign against same-sex marriage meant he was a hypocrite. Some point to the treatment of female politicians in the press (which, presumably, they opposed) as evidence of a double standard, perhaps committing their own in the process. Others say that it was by this point an open secret and useless to try to conceal anyway.

Frankly, I've never seen the justification for publishing stories about politicians' sex lives. It seems to me a perversion of the concept of public interest – that is, that matters concerning the operation of government are relevant to citizens but mere voyeuristic breaches of privacy – tabloid gossip – aren't. The trouble is that many people think we are entitled to know such things, because politicians are voted on because of their 'character'.

Perhaps, indeed, they can't have it both ways, sitting for puff pieces in the lifestyle pages but complaining if their tightly maintained public persona is ruined. But, for me, this is as much about us as it is about them: I want to live in a society with some kind of commitment to human dignity, in which newspapers are dedicated to informing the public, as opposed to trading in tawdry gossip that demeans public discourse. I value the fact that at least some organisations still have a public interest test before they publish. I fear, however, that in our hyper-partisan society, universal principles are being chucked out left right and centre, with the ability to deride an 'opposition' figure deemed more important than some kind of objective standard of behaviour. I don't think that's a good path to be on, frankly.

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HAL 

Please don't shout at me - I can't help it.


Joined: 17 Mar 2003


PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2018 8:58 am
Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree. Aren't all perversion of the concept of public interest – that that matters concerning the operation of government are relevant to citizens but mere voyeuristic breaches of privacy – tabloid gossip – aren't The trouble is that many people think we [he or she]are[he or she] entitled to know such things because politicians are voted on because of their 'character' ?
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David Libra

Reel around the fountain


Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Pripyat, in spirit

PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2018 9:13 am
Post subject: Reply with quote

Of course, one of the inevitable consequences of such publication is that it gives holier-than-thou types something to write about. Fairfax writer Clementine Ford (who seems to have morphed into a tut-tutting gossip columnist, if she wasn't always one) is leading the hyena pack with her hit-job on Joyce:

http://www.smh.com.au/lifestyle/news-and-views/news-features/barnaby-joyce-does-not-understand-marriage-20180207-h0v87i.html

Given that comments aren't allowed on her articles and she resolutely blocks anyone on Twitter who disagrees with her, nobody is going to hold her accountable for this piece. But I wanted to highlight a few of the nastier comments in it.

Quote:
It does demonstrate his hypocrisy in advocating a "secure relationship with a loving husband" as a woman's ultimate "protection". I doubt his wife or his daughters feel particularly protected by the man who has brought such unwelcome attention to their lives through his own alleged infidelity.


Note how she frames that 'unwelcome attention' as his fault, rather than the media's for choosing to cover the story.

Quote:
Joyce has previously spoken about his "guilt" over being an absent father to his four daughters, none of whom are likely to respond well to the fact he's joined the Old Father With A New Family do-over club.

This is where the cliche comes in. Because really, a 50-year-old man leaving his wife to start again with a 33-year-old isn't a love story. It's a midlife crisis.


A gross generalisation from somebody who knows absolutely nothing about the relationship or the individuals involved, and seems to lack any capacity to empathise with people in such relationships.

Quote:
I'm not suggesting people stay in relationships that are no longer producing happiness or fulfilment. But when someone has sacrificed so much for you, have the moral integrity to separate from them with dignity.


Again, moral grandstanding from someone who does not know the precise circumstances of their separation or the conversations that occurred.

Quote:
It speaks volumes about the Deputy Prime Minister's character that he has treated his wife as little more than a long term employee, useful so long as she served a purpose but easily replaced when a better applicant came along.


Another vicious remark with little basis in fact.

Quote:
If this were a 50-year-old woman - hell, if it were a 40-year-old woman - whose sexual relationship with a much younger subordinate male employee were exposed, she would be crucified by the press and the public.


Indeed – and perhaps condemned by smug op-ed columnists like Clementine Ford. Does she support that? If not (and one presumes she doesn't), why is it ok here?

Quote:
If this is the best deputy leader the country has to offer, no wonder we're such a garbage heap.


If this is the best columnist our (former) broadsheets have to offer, then ... well, you know the rest.

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Mugwump 



Joined: 28 Jul 2007
Location: Between London and Melbourne

PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2018 9:54 am
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^ very true, David. Sadly, we no longer seem to have the capacity to separate political disagreement from ad hominem ugliness.

Only two people really know what goes on inside a marriage, and even those two but imperfectly. Since there is no truth without context, it is disgraceful to trample on an individual’s private life in public like that.

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K 



Joined: 09 Sep 2011


PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2018 10:10 am
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She obviously doesn't know about or want to know about what happened to Simon Lethlean. (I was actually thinking about adding the B. Joyce case to the Lethlean thread as a point of comparison.)
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Culprit Cancer



Joined: 06 Feb 2003
Location: Port Melbourne

PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2018 10:27 am
Post subject: Reply with quote

You can't stand on a soapbox and preach about marriage being sacred whilst banging your female staffer on your desk, then expect not to cop any flack about it. He used his daughters in the lead up to the bi election to show how much of a traditional family man he is, no wonder they are pissed off. Bananarby is a hypocrite. I will add, the LNP attacked Gillard for being childless.

If it wasn't Bananarby Joyce and Barbara Joyce and she fell pregnant to a younger staffer the media would have exploded.

I did read something I found amusing.
Quote:
Whaat!! Two women slept with him?? Should have gone to spec savers
Laughing Laughing Laughing
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David Libra

Reel around the fountain


Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Pripyat, in spirit

PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2018 12:00 pm
Post subject: Reply with quote

^ That's about the level of the discourse. All sneering, forgetting that these are real human lives we're dealing with once all the petty partisan politics have been put to one side.

I'm currently writing an article on a South Korean film about a young actress who has an affair with her (married) director, which ends up being reported on in detail in the tabloids, forcing her to flee the country and give up on her acting career. There's an exchange from it that I think applies here:

Sang-won: "But why such a fuss? Just leave them alone. Why stir up such a fuss?
Jun-hee: "People have nothing to do. And it's adultery."
Sang-won: "People must've had fun, raking them over the coals. They can act cruel, but two people in love is immoral?"

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partypie 



Joined: 01 Oct 2010


PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2018 1:01 pm
Post subject: Reply with quote

What some people think of as love, others think of adultery. Barnaby expects the public to give his family greater consideration than he didi
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Culprit Cancer



Joined: 06 Feb 2003
Location: Port Melbourne

PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2018 2:53 pm
Post subject: Reply with quote

https://www.sbs.com.au/news/joyce-hypocritical-over-political-attack-ad-tony-windsor

Bananarby Joyce does not mind getting personal unless it involves him. When it involves him he starts crying about it being personal and no ones business. He cannot have it both ways. As it stands if he lied and manipulated his family (used his daughters to portray the family man in adverts leading up to his re election) then he will lie and manipulate his way in office (water allowances is just one that stands out). He is the man who stands in for Turnbull as acting PM. The pub test, sniff test or whatever test he simply fails at all levels. He is a disgrace but then again he is a Politician.
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stui magpie 

dum nei, sakte ja


Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: Where ever i go, there I am

PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2018 5:39 pm
Post subject: Reply with quote

^

Just because his marriage failed doesn't mean he still isn't a family man . His daughters are still his daughters and I'm assuming they weren't forced to assist.

Clementine Ford is an Oxygen thief. The only benefit she provides to society is as a potential organ donor.

Having said that, I don't have a big problem with this becoming public knowledge. As an elected official of the Australian people, you forego much of the privacy a normal person enjoys. If you have a public profile and you want to set the narrative on how you want to be viewed, you better live up to it.

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swoop42 Virgo

The Flash


Joined: 02 Aug 2008
Location: The 22

PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 1:35 am
Post subject: Reply with quote

David wrote:
Of course, one of the inevitable consequences of such publication is that it gives holier-than-thou types something to write about. Fairfax writer Clementine Ford (who seems to have morphed into a tut-tutting gossip columnist, if she wasn't always one) is leading the hyena pack with her hit-job on Joyce:

http://www.smh.com.au/lifestyle/news-and-views/news-features/barnaby-joyce-does-not-understand-marriage-20180207-h0v87i.html

Given that comments aren't allowed on her articles and she resolutely blocks anyone on Twitter who disagrees with her, nobody is going to hold her accountable for this piece. But I wanted to highlight a few of the nastier comments in it.

Quote:
It does demonstrate his hypocrisy in advocating a "secure relationship with a loving husband" as a woman's ultimate "protection". I doubt his wife or his daughters feel particularly protected by the man who has brought such unwelcome attention to their lives through his own alleged infidelity.


Note how she frames that 'unwelcome attention' as his fault, rather than the media's for choosing to cover the story.

Quote:
Joyce has previously spoken about his "guilt" over being an absent father to his four daughters, none of whom are likely to respond well to the fact he's joined the Old Father With A New Family do-over club.

This is where the cliche comes in. Because really, a 50-year-old man leaving his wife to start again with a 33-year-old isn't a love story. It's a midlife crisis.


A gross generalisation from somebody who knows absolutely nothing about the relationship or the individuals involved, and seems to lack any capacity to empathise with people in such relationships.

Quote:
I'm not suggesting people stay in relationships that are no longer producing happiness or fulfilment. But when someone has sacrificed so much for you, have the moral integrity to separate from them with dignity.


Again, moral grandstanding from someone who does not know the precise circumstances of their separation or the conversations that occurred.

Quote:
It speaks volumes about the Deputy Prime Minister's character that he has treated his wife as little more than a long term employee, useful so long as she served a purpose but easily replaced when a better applicant came along.


Another vicious remark with little basis in fact.

Quote:
If this were a 50-year-old woman - hell, if it were a 40-year-old woman - whose sexual relationship with a much younger subordinate male employee were exposed, she would be crucified by the press and the public.


Indeed – and perhaps condemned by smug op-ed columnists like Clementine Ford. Does she support that? If not (and one presumes she doesn't), why is it ok here?

Quote:
If this is the best deputy leader the country has to offer, no wonder we're such a garbage heap.


If this is the best columnist our (former) broadsheets have to offer, then ... well, you know the rest.


I tried to comment on a couple of Clementine Ford articles around the time of the Weinstein scandal breaking but alas as you can guess they were rejected.

LOL.

My biggest gripe with Ford and many other "feminist" journalists is the continual insistence (whether implicit or explicit) that women are always the wronged party and often even when they are clearly have some (or all) fault it can still be traced back to the behaviour of a man somewhere, somehow.

I'm all for equality but it's a pure type of equality where expectations in intelligence, accountability and civility are the same for both men and women.

The type of equality the likes of Ford sprout funnily enough can almost appear the opposite of what I imagine feminism to be in that she often looks to make excuses for the actions of women and to me that is implying that women need these extra allowances not afforded to men because they need to be protected if only from themselves.

And here I thought women were just as capable as making informed or rash, generous or selfish, good or bad decisions as us men.

Basically she wants her cake, wants to eat it but if it makes her fat it's all a mans fault. Laughing

What I found most irritating about the article you linked to was during the entire character assassination of Joyce (for the record and unlike you I have no problem with this affair being made public) she made no mention of the woman who was seemingly quite happy to bed this vile creature despite the former Mrs Joyce herself making a passing mention of her in a statement released to the public.

I fully suspect this was deliberate as the actions of the female staffer in electing to engage in a relationship with Joyce (Adam Bandt you were wrong to, she isn't a victim she was a facilitator of adultery) doesn't fit into Fords narrative of a "sisterhood" that exists between women that she tried to peddle at the beginning of the Weinstein scandal and the #metoo movement.

As I tried to comment at the time to Ms. Ford this "sisterhood" is just a myth as for every cheating scum male (her words somewhere I'm certain) it takes a willing female partner and women will routinely stab another with the XX chromosome if the resultant situation is favourable to them, their future prospects and to think otherwise is doing women a disservice IMO.

The only victims here are the former Mrs Joyce and her daughters.

The other two (yes Clementine other TWO!) entered a relationship knowing full well the ramifications of an affair and now have to live with that decision.

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Culprit Cancer



Joined: 06 Feb 2003
Location: Port Melbourne

PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 5:34 am
Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.theshovel.com.au/2018/02/08/calls-for-national-sick-day-after-nation-forced-to-imagine-barnaby-joyce-having-sex/

Quote:
Workers rights groups have called for a nation-wide day off, after millions of Australians were involuntarily subjected to the mental image of the member for New England having intercourse.


Shocked Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing
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ronrat 



Joined: 22 May 2006
Location: Thailand

PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 6:45 am
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And what about the poor bastards forced to think about someone having sex with Clementine Ford who seemingly had abortions at will
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David Libra

Reel around the fountain


Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Pripyat, in spirit

PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 8:30 am
Post subject: Reply with quote

Real bunch of oil paintings in here, I’m sure, deciding who is or isn’t f#%$able. Razz No chance we can lift the tone a little?
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Pies4shaw 



Joined: 08 Oct 2007


PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 8:37 am
Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, David.

OK.

Now.

I think the matter of public interest here is how we'll manage the bio-security issues if the child is a Sontaran. Some politicians have always looked a little too like General Staal for comfort.
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