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The 'me too' movement

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K 



Joined: 09 Sep 2011


PostPosted: Sat Dec 15, 2018 4:27 am
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https://www.theage.com.au/entertainment/tv-and-radio/behind-cbs-s-secret-13-million-settlement-with-eliza-dushku-20181214-p50mbv.html
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Pies4shaw Leo

pies4shaw


Joined: 08 Oct 2007


PostPosted: Sat Dec 15, 2018 9:02 am
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That’s a little troubling, isn’t it? On the one hand, she’s legally entitled, as the law stands, to exact a massive price from them for their silence. On the other hand, you’d think she was perfectly placed to see one or more of the allegations she has made over the journey through the courts. She’s well-off and would still be moderately wealthy whether or not she won a case. Further, if the issue that actually concerns us is routine victimisation and harassment of women in the workplace, I’m not seeing how that issue moves closer to resolution by a wealthy woman with high earning-power exacting a significant payout from a corporate giant in return for not saying too much in public. All this teaches those in positions of authority is that if they’re going to exploit people, they shouldn’t exploit people with high earning power - they should instead exploit the marginalised and dispossessed because their payouts will always be trivial even when they have the powerful ”bang to rights”.
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K 



Joined: 09 Sep 2011


PostPosted: Sat Dec 15, 2018 9:46 am
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In general (i.e. not just harassment cases), it's a huge problem for a powerless victim when no one previously has made a complaint. There are instances of institutionalized wrongdoing to large numbers of people where they don't complain, presumably because they don't know their human rights (and feel too vulnerable anyway, especially if the wrongdoer is a government organization). One could hope for a class action, but for that to proceed somehow the victims need to be found and contacted first.

Very troubling.
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K 



Joined: 09 Sep 2011


PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2018 4:42 am
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Retired Hawthorn GP faces major police probe over alleged sex abuse

https://www.theage.com.au/national/victoria/retired-hawthorn-gp-faces-major-police-probe-over-alleged-sex-abuse-20181213-p50m46.html

"The Age understands that concerns about Dr Kyraicou's conduct were first raised with the Australian Health Practitioner Regulation Agency almost 20 years ago, but a complaint was withdrawn and no action was taken.

AHPRA, which regulates the nation's health practitioners, has been criticised over the long delays with its current probe into Dr Kyriacou, which was launched in February 2016 but is still months from being finalised.

Dr Kyriacou, who was aware he was under investigation by AHPRA, removed himself from the register of medical practitioners in August 2017, claiming he was suffering from a brain injury."


It would probably help if AHPRA cared more about patient victims and less about protecting practitioner predators. The article says the complaint was withdrawn, but under current rules the complaint has to be investigated even if it is withdrawn. Did AHPRA at least pretend to investigate?
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think positive Libra

Side By Side


Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere

PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2018 7:10 am
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K wrote:
In general (i.e. not just harassment cases), it's a huge problem for a powerless victim when no one previously has made a complaint. There are instances of institutionalized wrongdoing to large numbers of people where they don't complain, presumably because they don't know their human rights (and feel too vulnerable anyway, especially if the wrongdoer is a government organization). One could hope for a class action, but for that to proceed somehow the victims need to be found and contacted first.

Very troubling.


Change a couple of words and this could be in the domestic violence thread

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David Libra

I dare you to try


Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda

PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2018 4:05 pm
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Another series of allegations against Geoffrey Rush.

https://www.theguardian.com/film/2018/dec/17/yael-stone-alleges-geoffrey-rush-sexual-inappropriately-dressing-room-denies

I think I've said this before, but theatre people from my experience are weird – much more touchy-feely and bawdy than most other people I've encountered, which can perhaps be put down to a combination of the natural extroversion of actors and the intimate and relatively unstructured nature of theatre work. For better or for worse, there are things that would get you fired or sanctioned at an office job that seem fairly common in stage circles. None of this is to excuse unwanted sexual behaviour, and a pattern does seem to be emerging of Rush being sexually overbearing with his co-stars, but I think it's still important to put these kinds of reports in context. If these reports are true, and even if they do point to a broader pattern of behaviour in the dressing room, does Rush really deserve to be painted with the same scarlet letter as (literal) standover men like Harvey Weinstein, Bill Clinton, Rolf Harris and Leslie Moonves? (And I do feel that our discourse does conflate all "sexual misconduct" into one category and treats any multiple "offenders" as persona non grata regardless of the extent of their offence.) And while culture has a very real effect on psychology and you can't blame victims for how they feel, I do suspect that there is an element of anti-sex cultural puritanism in the way some of these acts are experienced and (perhaps more importantly) thought about and dealt with after the fact.

Having said that, I do think that Stone is entitled to recount what happened and that, at least when it comes to such public revelations, there's a bit of do-the-crime, do-the-time about this: if Rush didn't want his actions to become public knowledge, maybe he shouldn't have engaged in them to begin with. Ultimately, it's much better that these things are publicly known than hidden, because it makes it much harder to conceal genuinely predatory behaviour and allows those whose behaviour sits on a grey line to perhaps stop and think a little more seriously about what they're doing and what the consequences might be.

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stui magpie Gemini

Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.


Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto

PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2018 7:27 pm
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Fair call on actors in general.

I read about that elsewhere, I found it interesting that a 25 year old girl and a 59 year old man were sharing a dressing room and shower. Confused

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K 



Joined: 09 Sep 2011


PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2018 7:59 pm
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David wrote:
...
I think I've said this before, but theatre people from my experience are weird – much more touchy-feely and bawdy than most other people I've encountered, which can perhaps be put down to a combination of the natural extroversion of actors and the intimate and relatively unstructured nature of theatre work. For better or for worse, there are things that would get you fired or sanctioned at an office job that seem fairly common in stage circles. ...

The online repository of trial exhibits (link given in previous post) has some of the text messages exchanged, and they are not what I imagine 99% of text messages in the world are like. All so theatrical.
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David Libra

I dare you to try


Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda

PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2018 8:07 am
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^ Precisely. This is a world in which flamboyance is the norm, not the exception, and sexual jokes and pranks and the like are commonplace. I haven’t done theatre myself, but I do work with a few actors in one of my jobs and, boy, you can spot them a mile away.
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K 



Joined: 09 Sep 2011


PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2018 8:12 am
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K wrote:
...
http://www.fedcourt.gov.au/services/access-to-files-and-transcripts/online-files/rush-v-nationwide

"The Federal Court has established this online file in view of the public interest. Documents will be placed here when considered publicly accessible."

<snip>

A text message from Geoffrey, 10 Jun 2016:

"... beloved Aryan Schone Mullerin (yes a complicated and obtuse jeu de mots, of course) - basically it's a spectacular near-homophone praising you as a delicious mysterious daughter of the Miller! - apologies for missing your opening last night ... but I was thinking of you (as I do more than is socially appropriate [emoji here]) - how is your Big Wheel turning? ... how do months fly so quickly by? ..."


The above, for example, is not how "regular" people text.
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HAL 

Please don't shout at me - I can't help it.


Joined: 17 Mar 2003


PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2018 8:15 am
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How do I know that you were really "thinking"?
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K 



Joined: 09 Sep 2011


PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2018 8:46 am
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https://www.nytimes.com/2018/12/16/opinion/metoo-defamation-geoffrey-rush-yael-stone.html

'First there were the texts. They were both affectionate and flirtatious, flowery and yet occasionally vulgar, and would come until the wee hours of the night. Ms. Stone showed a number to me but asked me not to quote from them. Part of her discomfort is probably because, as she put it, she “enthusiastically and willingly” bantered back.'


Rush's full statement to the NYT:

https://int.nyt.com/data/documenthelper/529-geoffrey-rush-statement/4fa38047977413e4ddb7/optimized/full.pdf#page=1

"Statement from Mr Geoffrey Rush to The New York
Times

17 December 2018

From the outset I must make it clear that the allegations
of inappropriate behaviour made by Yael Stone are
incorrect and in some instances have been taken
completely out of context.
However, clearly Yael has been upset on occasion by the
spirited enthusiasm I generally bring to my work.
I sincerely and deeply regret if I have caused her any
distress. This, most certainly, has never been my
intention.
When we performed in The Diary Of A Madman 8 years
ago, I believe we engaged in a journey as artistic
comrades.
Over the years we have shared correspondence that
always contained a mutual respect and admiration.
As I have said in the past, I abhor any behaviour that
might be considered as harassment or intimidation to
anyone – whether in the workplace or any other
environment."
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stui magpie Gemini

Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.


Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto

PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2018 7:01 pm
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David wrote:
^ Precisely. This is a world in which flamboyance is the norm, not the exception, and sexual jokes and pranks and the like are commonplace. I haven’t done theatre myself, but I do work with a few actors in one of my jobs and, boy, you can spot them a mile away.


I may use that as a defence someday. Razz

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David Libra

I dare you to try


Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda

PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2018 8:14 pm
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Extras are a different kettle of fish, sorry. Razz

https://youtu.be/3-x0xFfhFms

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stui magpie Gemini

Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.


Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto

PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2018 9:34 pm
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We got fed better than that on Bloom.

You implying I'm not a real actor? I'll have you know I've been acting like I know what I'm doing for 30 years. Wink Cool

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