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Sudanese crime in Melbourne

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K 



Joined: 09 Sep 2011


PostPosted: Tue Jan 30, 2018 12:43 pm
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David wrote:
K wrote:
^ Maybe one problem is that a family gets citizenship and then a few years pass and the children commit crimes but are still officially juveniles?
(I don't know. Just wondering.)


Same problem as any children of Australian citizens committing crimes, no?


David, did you read the context of the question, i.e. Mugwump's suggestion of "indefinite leave to remain, subject to ongoing good character"?
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David Libra

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 30, 2018 1:25 pm
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Yes, sorry, I see what you mean by ‘problem’ now. Unless Mugwump’s suggesting that the parents be deported because of their children’s actions, I’m not sure how ‘indefinite leave to remain’ rather than a path to citizenship would be preferable.
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think positive Libra

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 30, 2018 1:49 pm
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i actually think holding parents responsible for the actions of their juveniles for quite a few things is a bloody good idea. Deliberate damage to property, stealing, just imagine how much cheaper insurance could be, and how much prettier the world might be if someone held the little arseholes to accountability. Why do ferals think its ok to smash someone for no reason? steal someones hard earned? someone taught, or didnt teach, those ferals basic morality, common decency.
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Wokko Pisces

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Joined: 04 Oct 2005
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 30, 2018 2:12 pm
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I've known lovely parents who have little monster children, or even one bad and some good kids. Sometimes people are just born arseholes and punishing parents for the actions of their children isn't fair at all.

My mum was good with discipline but I still went and did some less than legal things as a kid that she had no idea about. Laughing

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think positive Libra

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 30, 2018 2:59 pm
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there is always exceptions to the rule, there is also a lot of feral Ł$%$ers and uninterested parents out there - just go watch a few young teens out shopping or out to lunch and listen to the way they talk to their parents, and also the way some parents talk to their kids. Respect seems to be out of fashion.

this naughty corner bullshit is not helping!

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David Libra

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Joined: 27 Jul 2003
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 30, 2018 4:11 pm
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Wokko wrote:
I've known lovely parents who have little monster children, or even one bad and some good kids. Sometimes people are just born arseholes and punishing parents for the actions of their children isn't fair at all.

My mum was good with discipline but I still went and did some less than legal things as a kid that she had no idea about. Laughing


Well said, Wokko. Guilt by association is no way to run a society. And yes, sometimes even the best parents have children with issues; it’s no “exception that proves the rule”, just evidence that nobody can determine how their child will turn out.

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Mugwump 



Joined: 28 Jul 2007
Location: Oxford, England

PostPosted: Tue Jan 30, 2018 7:02 pm
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David wrote:
Yes, sorry, I see what you mean by ‘problem’ now. Unless Mugwump’s suggesting that the parents be deported because of their children’s actions, I’m not sure how ‘indefinite leave to remain’ rather than a path to citizenship would be preferable.


No, that’s certainly no what I suggested. Guilt by association offends the most basic sense of justice. But I can see some merit in deferring citizenship in favor of ILR until the third generation, rather as they do in Germany for gastarbeiters. A better alternative, perhaps, would be conferring citizenship for the second generation at the age of 30 subject to no criminal record. The second gen often seems to be the one at risk of terrorism or serious violent crime.

Oh and ILR would be a “path” to citizenship at some defined point. What we have now is a teleportation to citizenship across all generations without any character test.

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Last edited by Mugwump on Tue Jan 30, 2018 8:01 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Mugwump 



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PostPosted: Tue Jan 30, 2018 7:40 pm
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I agree with TP that some parents deserve a good metaphorical kicking for their irresponsibility, but I don’t think there is much that can be done about it unless they are themselves complicit in unlawful acts or guilty of downright neglect, and there are laws about that already.
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Mugwump 



Joined: 28 Jul 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 30, 2018 7:55 pm
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think positive wrote:
i actually think holding parents responsible for the actions of their juveniles for quite a few things is a bloody good idea. Deliberate damage to property, stealing, just imagine how much cheaper insurance could be, and how much prettier the world might be if someone held the little arseholes to accountability. Why do ferals think its ok to smash someone for no reason? steal someones hard earned? someone taught, or didnt teach, those ferals basic morality, common decency.


Yes, it is breathtaking to even contemplate the cost of crime. From police, to hospitals, to alarms, insurance, security guards, cyber specialists and various restoration works, to victim psychotherapy. That’s why it is a pity we have done so much to foster it in the last fifty years. That great fraud John Lennon wrote “imagine no possessions”. Imagine minimal crime, instead, and you get a little closer to genuine humanism.

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David Libra

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Joined: 27 Jul 2003
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 30, 2018 8:28 pm
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Mugwump wrote:
David wrote:
Yes, sorry, I see what you mean by ‘problem’ now. Unless Mugwump’s suggesting that the parents be deported because of their children’s actions, I’m not sure how ‘indefinite leave to remain’ rather than a path to citizenship would be preferable.


No, that’s certainly no what I suggested. Guilt by association offends the most basic sense of justice. But I can see some merit in deferring citizenship in favor of ILR until the third generation, rather as they do in Germany for gastarbeiters. A better alternative, perhaps, would be conferring citizenship for the second generation at the age of 30 subject to no criminal record. The second gen often seems to be the one at risk of terrorism or serious violent crime.

Oh and ILR would be a “path” to citizenship at some defined point. What we have now is a teleportation to citizenship across all generations without any character test.


Would you really countenance deporting people to a country they may never have actually seen or lived in? And would that country even take them, unless they held dual citizenship?

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Mugwump 



Joined: 28 Jul 2007
Location: Oxford, England

PostPosted: Tue Jan 30, 2018 9:18 pm
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David wrote:
Mugwump wrote:
David wrote:
Yes, sorry, I see what you mean by ‘problem’ now. Unless Mugwump’s suggesting that the parents be deported because of their children’s actions, I’m not sure how ‘indefinite leave to remain’ rather than a path to citizenship would be preferable.


No, that’s certainly no what I suggested. Guilt by association offends the most basic sense of justice. But I can see some merit in deferring citizenship in favor of ILR until the third generation, rather as they do in Germany for gastarbeiters. A better alternative, perhaps, would be conferring citizenship for the second generation at the age of 30 subject to no criminal record. The second gen often seems to be the one at risk of terrorism or serious violent crime.

Oh and ILR would be a “path” to citizenship at some defined point. What we have now is a teleportation to citizenship across all generations without any character test.


Would you really countenance deporting people to a country they may never have actually seen or lived in? And would that country even take them, unless they held dual citizenship?


Firstly, it is very rare for a country to strip citizenship from someone who does not renounce it, or adopt another citizenship. I believe there are UN rules about this.

Secondly, would I countenance it ? Of course, or I would not have written it. I have very little sympathy for those who commit serious violent crime. I have even less sympathy for those who commit violent or repeated crime when they have extra reason to be grateful for the precious and generous opportunity that was offered to them and to their families.

Why be so morally absolute when it comes to protecting the rights of those who choose to make war upon society, and so undemanding when it comes to protecting the rights of innocent citizens to live in peace ?

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Dave The Man Scorpio



Joined: 01 Apr 2005
Location: Someville, Victoria, Australia

PostPosted: Wed Jan 31, 2018 5:07 pm
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These Bloody Fearals last Night Robbed a Cancer Widdel Women.

They need to kick them out of the Country.

Never take Refugee's from Sudan Again

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Pies4shaw 

"Phil had more talent in his little finger than both Abletts combined displayed in their entire careers"


Joined: 08 Oct 2007


PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 10:50 am
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Here's a couple more ferals that may be candidates for deportation. What do you all think?

http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/mother-and-daughter-charged-with-defrauding-sudanese-australians-20180206-p4yzj4.html
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HAL 

Please don't shout at me - I can't help it.


Joined: 17 Mar 2003


PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 10:52 am
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Oh a web page.
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Wokko Pisces

Come and take it.


Joined: 04 Oct 2005
Location: Ballarat!

PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 11:24 am
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Pies4shaw wrote:
Here's a couple more ferals that may be candidates for deportation. What do you all think?

http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/mother-and-daughter-charged-with-defrauding-sudanese-australians-20180206-p4yzj4.html


Yep, Martha and Rose should **** right off, the other two can pay back the victims and go to jail.

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