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Sudanese crime in Melbourne

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stui magpie Gemini

Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.


Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto

PostPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2018 8:07 pm
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Pies4shaw wrote:
Why? We didn't strip Martin Bryant of citizenship, for goodness' sake.


Yet we deported Dusty's father.

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Pies4shaw Leo

pies4shaw


Joined: 08 Oct 2007


PostPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2018 8:21 pm
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stui magpie wrote:
Pies4shaw wrote:
Why? We didn't strip Martin Bryant of citizenship, for goodness' sake.


Yet we deported Dusty's father.

He wasn’t a citizen. DTM was talking about cancelling citizenship, not visas.
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K 



Joined: 09 Sep 2011


PostPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2018 8:50 pm
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And what would cancelling citizenship do if you have nowhere to deport them to?
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David Libra

I dare you to try


Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda

PostPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2018 8:58 pm
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^ It’s where this discussion always goes. “Deport them because we can” turns into “Deport the rest of them too”. Emphasis on them (i.e. non-whites). Dutton and co. know exactly who they’re playing to when they talk about deporting dual citizens and so on.
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stui magpie Gemini

Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.


Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto

PostPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2018 9:04 pm
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Maybe we could open a new penal colony in Antarctica.

It would be cheap, wouldn't need an actual gaol or guards or anything, just drop them off and sail away, leave them to it

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K 



Joined: 09 Sep 2011


PostPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2018 9:33 pm
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Apparently if you can convince the ECB that they can play cricket well, you can deport them to the UK.
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Mugwump 



Joined: 28 Jul 2007
Location: Between London and Melbourne

PostPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2018 10:07 pm
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K wrote:
And what would cancelling citizenship do if you have nowhere to deport them to?


We don’t have to make them citizens. It is a choice we make. For new immigrants, especially those given asylum, an indefinite leave to remain subject to continued good character is perfectly feasible.

And of course deporting someone of bad character who is not a citizen (something we do now when we can) does not turn into “deport them all”. It never has, and there is no reason it should.

It’s as though you give someone shelter by giving them part-title to your house, and then find you can’t throw them out when they trash it, because they own the house !! All very silly.

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Last edited by Mugwump on Fri Jan 19, 2018 10:22 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Mugwump 



Joined: 28 Jul 2007
Location: Between London and Melbourne

PostPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2018 10:16 pm
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stui magpie wrote:
Mugwump wrote:
^ Is that really true, TP? Their parents have no doubt been through horrors but they do not seem to be especially prone to violent crime. Nor do
Syrians who have passed through their war, Cambodians who escaped the killing fields, or Jews after the Second World War. I’d say this is a specific subculture problem, exacerbated by light touch policing and courts and the usual fear of the racism slur. I don’t think we need to make too many excuses for it. I still like the “probationary right to remain” concept. Commit such crimes, and back you go. There are lots of people who want to live here without brutalizing the host.


In a number of those examples though, the parents would have had some sense of what a normal life was like. Shit has been happening in the Sudan for so long that the parents of these kids are quite possibly a lost generation in themselves, with little or no knowledge of how a family unit is supposed to function when you aren't in a war zone.

It's definitely a problem, because there's a number of people in the Sudanese and Somalian community trying to assist with it. They aren't in denial, they're trying to help with solutions.

I think it's a bit of a perfect storm.

drop a bunch of black kids into a society where they stick out like dogs balls, without the necessary social and infrastructure services to help them and their parents, chuck in a bit of US black gangsta rap culture which they can likely relate to, blend that with the parents having their own issues in coping with a very different society and culture, sprinkle over top asian and indian populations who generally don't play well with Africans and you have all the makings of a shit sandwich.


The data quoted earlier by David’s link suggests that 90% of Sudanese youth do not commit vicious crimes. They have all of the problems you mention. Crime is a choice. We created a lot more of it when we started blaming everything except the perpetrator. We would do well to encourage people not to make that choice, and treat them with civilized severity when they do. It’d be good for them (by discouraging them from making stupid choices), good for that community and good for us. It would not be good for the family of a kid who goes astray, but then it never is.

That said, if we are to be the world’s social hospital, then of course we should provide infrastructure to support it. That is not incompatible with chucking out vandalising patients.

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HAL 

Please don't shout at me - I can't help it.


Joined: 17 Mar 2003


PostPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2018 10:20 pm
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How many people who want to live here without brutalizing the hosts are there?
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K 



Joined: 09 Sep 2011


PostPosted: Sat Jan 20, 2018 5:32 am
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Mugwump wrote:
K wrote:
And what would cancelling citizenship do if you have nowhere to deport them to?

We don’t have to make them citizens. It is a choice we make. For new immigrants, especially those given asylum, an indefinite leave to remain subject to continued good character is perfectly feasible.
...


As I said previously, I have zero knowledge of facts here. Are they actually citizens? If so, how long does it take for a refugee to gain citizenship? I presume for regular migrants, it goes in stages over several years, passing through PR status first. Is it the next generation (i.e. the children) that are implicated in crime?
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K 



Joined: 09 Sep 2011


PostPosted: Sat Jan 20, 2018 5:40 am
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stui magpie wrote:
Maybe we could open a new penal colony in Antarctica.
It would be cheap, wouldn't need an actual gaol or guards or anything, just drop them off and sail away, leave them to it


Spare a thought for the poor penguins.
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Mugwump 



Joined: 28 Jul 2007
Location: Between London and Melbourne

PostPosted: Sat Jan 20, 2018 10:54 am
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K wrote:
Mugwump wrote:
K wrote:
And what would cancelling citizenship do if you have nowhere to deport them to?

We don’t have to make them citizens. It is a choice we make. For new immigrants, especially those given asylum, an indefinite leave to remain subject to continued good character is perfectly feasible.
...


As I said previously, I have zero knowledge of facts here. Are they actually citizens? If so, how long does it take for a refugee to gain citizenship? I presume for regular migrants, it goes in stages over several years, passing through PR status first. Is it the next generation (i.e. the children) that are implicated in crime?


I don’t know what the present policy is. I am just advocating the policy that I think fits with the interests of the Australian community and citizens, which is what our politicians are paid to do. If the present lot are citizens then they cannot be deported. But the politicians who made them citizens without a probationary period were fools, and we should change the law in future to prevent their foolishness from carrying forward, so when the next batch of people we invite into our home turn on us and smash up the furniture, we can remove them.

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stui magpie Gemini

Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.


Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto

PostPosted: Sat Jan 20, 2018 4:32 pm
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K wrote:
stui magpie wrote:
Maybe we could open a new penal colony in Antarctica.
It would be cheap, wouldn't need an actual gaol or guards or anything, just drop them off and sail away, leave them to it


Spare a thought for the poor penguins.


A bit of variety for their diet and scenery. Razz Wink

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K 



Joined: 09 Sep 2011


PostPosted: Sun Jan 21, 2018 8:39 am
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stui magpie wrote:
K wrote:
stui magpie wrote:
Maybe we could open a new penal colony in Antarctica.
It would be cheap, wouldn't need an actual gaol or guards or anything, just drop them off and sail away, leave them to it


Spare a thought for the poor penguins.


A bit of variety for their diet and scenery. Razz Wink


Might need to hire a good chef to avoid causing penguin diarrhoea.
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Wokko Pisces

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Joined: 04 Oct 2005


PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2018 1:57 pm
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Better late than never...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5304641/African-Apex-teen-set-deported-prison-release.html?ito=social-facebook_Australiageo
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