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K
Joined: 09 Sep 2011
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I am completely ignorant here. What exactly is their immigration status?
Are they refugees who now have citizenship or permanent residence or something less? |
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sixpoints
Joined: 27 Sep 2010
Location: Lulie Street
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You quote a "Sudanese Athlete" for his insight into how police & pollies need to wake up to gang problems.
So who is this person you consider worthy of quoting?
Nelly Yoa, a self proclaimed spokesperson for what is happening with African youth in Melbourne. He claims he is an athlete... Ok let's go through the CV he posted on line, his transcript from interviews and what's on his Facebook.
He claims to have trialled with Chelsea in the EPL. This was proved false.
He claimed to have trialled with Queens Park Rangers in the English Championship, this too was proved false.
He claimed to have played professional football in Indonesia, this was proved false.
He claimed to have had a 'multi million' dollar deal with Melbourne City. This was proved false.
He claimed to have been offered terms with Melbourne Victory, this was proved false.
He claimed to be a Brand Ambassador for both Nike and American Express. This was proved false.
He claimed Usain Bolt was present at the birth of his child. This was proved false.
He claimed to have shifted from soccer to AFL, and was a Collingwood player. As we all know, this is false.
He claimed to work with African youth, particularly those who had broken the law. Every agency and group who deals with such issues was contacted - he had never had any involvement with anyone.
He wrote an article for The Melbourne Age about how to tackle the issue. The article was found to have been plagiarised from an article by a Filipino social worker.
He put clips on You Tube claiming to be of him playing soccer that were revealed to be of other players of African decent including Didier Drogba.
His Queens Park Rangers trading clip shows a random group of people playing on a field surrounded by eucalyptus trees!
Yet he's the "poster child" for quotes about how bad the African Gang situation is. A completely discredited fantasist, who still gets brought up on a site like this. I guess he is telling people what they want to hear, even though he is an absolute fraud.
Don't let the truth get in the way of the story you want to promote.
https://theworldgame.sbs.com.au/article/2018/01/08/whoa-nelly-outrageous-sporting-claims-nelly-yoa
http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/we-have-an-issue-with-sudanese-gangs-here-s-how-we-can-tackle-it-20171230-p4yy4p.html
Last edited by sixpoints on Fri Jan 19, 2018 9:14 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Mugwump
Joined: 28 Jul 2007
Location: Between London and Melbourne
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^yes, TP, and the problem is that these scumbags pollute their host community, dishonour their own community, and make it harder for decent, hard-pressed people from the Sudan to come here. We need to give these selfish, vicious criminals an easy choice to make, and those that are too vicious to take the right choice deserve little sympathy. Crime is mostly a local phenomenon. A long time ago the educated and wealthy, who mostly live where crime does not occur, decided to indulge their inner self-regarding Voltaire, while the poor in hard communities took the stabbings and the baseball bats on their bodies.
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Two more flags before I die! |
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David 
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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| think positive wrote: |
Pretty much what my school teacher friends says, she worked in a school with over 75% of mainly Sudanese refugees and her stories were so sad. The parents can’t or won’t control them. And it’s getting worse. She just got a new job at a different school and it’s like a massive burden lifted from her. They can’t get teachers or substitutes because of the violence and threats towards teachers. How much transitional councilling do these people get? The horrors they have lived through are unspeakable, you can’t just give them some where else to live and think they will just fit. |
I’m still astounded that a school could exist in Melbourne in which Sudanese kids – 0.1% of the population – make up 75% of the classroom. Obviously people will be drawn to existing communities, but putting ethnocultural minority groups, low-income earners and other disadvantaged people all together in some far-flung outer region of the city is just asking for trouble. Better social policy, please: this is de facto segregation and ghettoisation.
Instead, let’s build a few more developments for new migrants in Toorak, South Yarra, Carlton, Hawthorn and Brighton, and if the rich NIMBYs don’t like it, tell them to **** off.
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All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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Mugwump
Joined: 28 Jul 2007
Location: Between London and Melbourne
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| David wrote: |
Instead, let’s build a few more developments for new migrants in Toorak, South Yarra, Carlton, Hawthorn and Brighton, and if the rich NIMBYs don’t like it, tell them to **** off. |
You do realise that if you did that, immigration policy would start to shift very quickly away from the present levels of intake ? I’m no Marxist, but there is a ruling class, and they will tolerate almost any level of discomfort for the poor suburbs if it helps with labour costs and better waiting staff.
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Two more flags before I die! |
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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^ Exactly – it's a double-edged sword: the influencers get to ignore social issues caused by ghettoisation and also make things worse by keeping outsiders out of their own communities. I think there'll still be many out there like me who'll push for higher refugee intakes, enough for at least state Labor governments to be pushed in that direction, but at least we'll know that they're making those decisions with some kind of first-hand knowledge of the consequences.
By the way, I still believe ardently that the answer to this all comes down to better social policy. We're not taking too many refugees in; compared to many countries, our intake is quite pitiful. And of course there is nothing inherent in African kids that makes them turn to crime (and the vast majority, of course, don't). Let's stop all this 'deportation' crap: the solution is to recognise the problems (something I agree that governments have often failed to do), fix them through better infrastructure, community support and integration policy, and find ways to prevent these things from happening in the future (the same goes for disadvantaged white kids too, of course). We're not a bunch of helpless children; we can do this.
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All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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Culprit 
Joined: 06 Feb 2003
Location: Port Melbourne
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| The main issue is that when you take a pile of crap, transport that crap for thousands of kms and dump it in a crap area and expect it to magically change into quality manure to fertilize the crap area you dumped the crap in. It will never happen, all you do is attract more flies. No support, no jobs and here we want you to fit in. |
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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^ Um, a bit harsh to refer to human beings as a pile of crap, Culprit...
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All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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Mugwump
Joined: 28 Jul 2007
Location: Between London and Melbourne
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| David wrote: | ^ Exactly – it's a double-edged sword: the influencers get to ignore social issues caused by ghettoisation and also make things worse by keeping outsiders out of their own communities. I think there'll still be many out there like me who'll push for higher refugee intakes, enough for at least state Labor governments to be pushed in that direction, but at least we'll know that they're making those decisions with some kind of first-hand knowledge of the consequences.
By the way, I still believe ardently that the answer to this all comes down to better social policy. We're not taking too many refugees in; compared to many countries, our intake is quite pitiful. And of course there is nothing inherent in African kids that makes them turn to crime (and the vast majority, of course, don't). Let's stop all this 'deportation' crap: the solution is to recognise the problems (something I agree that governments have often failed to do), fix them through better infrastructure, community support and integration policy, and find ways to prevent these things from happening in the future (the same goes for disadvantaged white kids too, of course). We're not a bunch of helpless children; we can do this. |
Why is deportation of recent immigrants who commit violent crime "crap", if we have made it part of our law ? It's not at all. It's just advertised consequence designed to deter violence, and the expulsion/isolation of the violent and brutal from the social body. Perfectly reasonable. What is crap is having your child stabbed or broken by a thug because you do not have the money to live in a nice area. That's what real crap feels like.
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Two more flags before I die! |
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K
Joined: 09 Sep 2011
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think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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The school is somewhere near craigieburn can’t remember the name
They r not crap they just never had boundaries which is the problem with a lot of this generation IMO
And no consequences
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You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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Mugwump
Joined: 28 Jul 2007
Location: Between London and Melbourne
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Change the law to allow only right to remain for new immigrants subject to no serious criminal record for a protracted period. That would do it. Ignore the careering Lilliputians at the UNHRC, draft the legislation so that it works rather than provides a feast for legal piranhas (hard, I know, once they smell money) and get it done. More government, more direct accountability to citizens, less ideological rigidity and less political weaving.
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Two more flags before I die! |
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stui magpie 
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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| Mugwump wrote: | ^ Is that really true, TP? Their parents have no doubt been through horrors but they do not seem to be especially prone to violent crime. Nor do
Syrians who have passed through their war, Cambodians who escaped the killing fields, or Jews after the Second World War. I’d say this is a specific subculture problem, exacerbated by light touch policing and courts and the usual fear of the racism slur. I don’t think we need to make too many excuses for it. I still like the “probationary right to remain” concept. Commit such crimes, and back you go. There are lots of people who want to live here without brutalizing the host. |
In a number of those examples though, the parents would have had some sense of what a normal life was like. Shit has been happening in the Sudan for so long that the parents of these kids are quite possibly a lost generation in themselves, with little or no knowledge of how a family unit is supposed to function when you aren't in a war zone.
It's definitely a problem, because there's a number of people in the Sudanese and Somalian community trying to assist with it. They aren't in denial, they're trying to help with solutions.
I think it's a bit of a perfect storm.
drop a bunch of black kids into a society where they stick out like dogs balls, without the necessary social and infrastructure services to help them and their parents, chuck in a bit of US black gangsta rap culture which they can likely relate to, blend that with the parents having their own issues in coping with a very different society and culture, sprinkle over top asian and indian populations who generally don't play well with Africans and you have all the makings of a shit sandwich.
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Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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Dave The Man 
Joined: 01 Apr 2005
Location: Someville, Victoria, Australia
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They should be Stripped of the Citizenship
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I am Da Man |
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Pies4shaw 
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
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| Why? We didn't strip Martin Bryant of citizenship, for goodness' sake. |
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